Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Deadshot wrote:I would say a 2:1 ratio of Melta: flamers.

Ok. I will see what I could change in my list. There is already a prevalence of meltas in my list as is.

Yeah I tried to mix it pretty evenly. Don't forget Vulkan has a heavy flamer. Putting that thing over a unit, then charging is really effective.

You have one hand held flamer, the heavy bolters from the pred, and the templates from the Redeemer for hordes. Redeemers can handle anything. Horde, they have two templates and an assault cannon. MEQ, the templates are AP3, and the assault cannons are rending. Light vehicles, templates are str6, as well as the assault cannon, which also has rending. Plus the MM. Pure awesome.

There is also plenty of melta, 2 meltaguns in the tac squads, a MM in one squad, and the MM on the Redeemer.

And just for balance, a mssile launcher, a lascannon, and the autocannon from the pred. Plus TH/SS termies, because they rock. Tried to cover all the bases.

PraetorDave wrote:Yeah I tried to mix it pretty evenly. Don't forget Vulkan has a heavy flamer. Putting that thing over a unit, then charging is really effective.

You have one hand held flamer, the heavy bolters from the pred, and the templates from the Redeemer for hordes. Redeemers can handle anything. Horde, they have two templates and an assault cannon. MEQ, the templates are AP3, and the assault cannons are rending. Light vehicles, templates are str6, as well as the assault cannon, which also has rending. Plus the MM. Pure awesome.

There is also plenty of melta, 2 meltaguns in the tac squads, a MM in one squad, and the MM on the Redeemer.

And just for balance, a mssile launcher, a lascannon, and the autocannon from the pred. Plus TH/SS termies, because they rock. Tried to cover all the bases.

The balancing aspect is why I had put a riflemen dread in my list. I had so much flamers and meltas, but nothing that could hit vehicles at long range. With the pred, ML, and lascannon, should be able to do some damage at longer ranged then the rest of the list.

I'm just wondering, how well would bikes work in a Vulkan list?

forruner_mercy wrote:I'm just wondering, how well would bikes work in a Vulkan list?

Fluff wise? Awful. If you want to fun a fluffy salamanders list, you can just tear out your whole fast attack section.
Game wise? Pretty good. There is a split in the community over bikes vs. speeders. Generally speaking Speeders are considered better, but bikes do have their positives. An 3 man attack bike squad with all MM will shred tanks in a vulkan list. 3, 2 wound T5 models with 3+ saves? They will be sticking around for awhile. Not to mention their move 12 and fire ability, meaning their MM's have a 36" range. Pretty good. Overall, it comes down to T5 vs. Armor value. The choice is yours to make, otherwise speeders and bikes are pretty evenly matched.

They DO have speeders and bikes, but just don't use them much due to the trouble with training with them on Nocturne and the Salamanders having unusually slow reflexes for a Space Marine.

The could be shown by only ever having 1 group of them. I think when I start getting to 2K points I will add in a squad. I just really like the look of the bikes. I also want to put some Tactical Termies in my army eventually. Those guys are also pretty cool looking, and not out of place of a Sallies army.

I imagine it like Librarians in some Chapters. They do have them, it's just that you won't see some of them using them much.

forruner_mercy wrote:
They can combat squad. All Vulkan does is makes flamers, heavy flamers, meltas, and multi-meltas twin linked (flamers re-roll to wound, meltas re-roll to hit), and he also makes TH's master-crafted (opponents who pass invul saves must re-roll).

The rule for Vulkan's Chapter Tactics says "If you include He'stan, then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule, instead, all TH count as master-crafted. etc"

So, you can't combat squad and still have Vulkan's special twinlinking/MCing ability. You can have one or the other, and only combat squading if the list includes another character with the Chapter Tactics special rule. Least that's how it reads to me. I'm willing to eat crow if I'm wrong, but the entry seems pretty clear.

hemingway wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:
They can combat squad. All Vulkan does is makes flamers, heavy flamers, meltas, and multi-meltas twin linked (flamers re-roll to wound, meltas re-roll to hit), and he also makes TH's master-crafted (opponents who pass invul saves must re-roll).

The rule for Vulkan's Chapter Tactics says "If you include He'stan, then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule, instead, all TH count as master-crafted. etc"

So, you can't combat squad and still have Vulkan's special twinlinking/MCing ability. You can have one or the other, and only combat squading if the list includes another character with the Chapter Tactics special rule. Least that's how it reads to me. I'm willing to eat crow if I'm wrong, but the entry seems pretty clear.

Yes, it is clear that you lose combat tactics, not combat squads. Combat tactics rule but twin linked meltas make up for the absence. Combat squads also rule.

hemingway wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:
They can combat squad. All Vulkan does is makes flamers, heavy flamers, meltas, and multi-meltas twin linked (flamers re-roll to wound, meltas re-roll to hit), and he also makes TH's master-crafted (opponents who pass invul saves must re-roll).

The rule for Vulkan's Chapter Tactics says "If you include He'stan, then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule, instead, all TH count as master-crafted. etc"

So, you can't combat squad and still have Vulkan's special twinlinking/MCing ability. You can have one or the other, and only combat squading if the list includes another character with the Chapter Tactics special rule. Least that's how it reads to me. I'm willing to eat crow if I'm wrong, but the entry seems pretty clear.

Combat squads, and combat tactics are completely seperate rules. Combat squads allows them to break into combat squads (pretty self explainatory) and combat tactics allows you to elect to fail a morale check.

thanks for clearing that up. i love the taste of corvus in the morning!

Also, how well would Tactical Termies work? When equipped with a HF, it seems like they would do better than normal.

Goodness I repeat myself so much on the internet.

Tactical Terminators in the vanilla book are not very good. There are units that shoot better then them (sternguard), there are units that assault better then them (assault marines, assault termies), and there are units that survive better then them (assault termies, camo scouts). Overall, they are outclassed by a lot of units in the book. They do have some good points. They do several things relatively well, including shooting, assualting and surviving. They also have the always awesome CML, and are one of 3 units that can take heavy flamers (sternguard and LoTD being the others). They are also very adept at deep striking, being able to deliver a large amount of firepower on the turn they arrive, then being able to survive the turn of return fire.

So, while outclassed by several other units, their niche lies in being able to deep strike behind enemy lines, and cause havoc. I personally think the CML is better served on the termies, being unique to them, however in a vulkan list there are worse things to take then a heavy flamer.

PraetorDave wrote:Goodness I repeat myself so much on the internet.

Tactical Terminators in the vanilla book are not very good. There are units that shoot better then them (sternguard), there are units that assault better then them (assault marines, assault termies), and there are units that survive better then them (assault termies, camo scouts). Overall, they are outclassed by a lot of units in the book. They do have some good points. They do several things relatively well, including shooting, assualting and surviving. They also have the always awesome CML, and are one of 3 units that can take heavy flamers (sternguard and LoTD being the others). They are also very adept at deep striking, being able to deliver a large amount of firepower on the turn they arrive, then being able to survive the turn of return fire.

So, while outclassed by several other units, their niche lies in being able to deep strike behind enemy lines, and cause havoc. I personally think the CML is better served on the termies, being unique to them, however in a vulkan list there are worse things to take then a heavy flamer.

Well, that's the internet for ya.
Thanks for that info! I like Terminators of any kind, so if they have a use, then all the better.
I have also thought about taking LoTD, but everyone says that they are expensive. From what I see, it is somewhat true, as it seems it is mainly a a better Tac squad. I would take them based solely on their looks.

Quick question though. In that list that you made me, how important is the dread? I do not foresee going up against a lot of armor (unless I play against IG), and I feel that it would not be in my best interest to have a dread, or at least one with a multi-melta. When I looked around my FLGS, the most common armies were either horde or had lighter tanks, light enough that a ML or Lascannon would be better.

If that is the case I would go with a Rifleman instead. Better number of shots against hordes and easy enough to pen AV11.

If not go for an Assault Cannon, but rermeber that this has lower str, and you will be relying on rolling 6 for rending, but it is the same cost as a Rifleman (if it has a Heavy Flamer).

Then again though, the MM dread would be good because it would become a pretty big fire target, and perhaps it will save some other things, not to mention the fact that if someone else brings a LR, then I will have an easier time taking it out.

I think I will switch out the lascannon in one squad for a HF on the dread.

Gonna have to think about this.

What would be better:
Sternies as anti-tank, and 2/3 of the Tac Squads as anti-infantry, or the Sternies as anti-infantry (because of HF), and 2/3 of the tactical squads as anti-tank?

Never give Sterguard any weapon other than a bolter or combi. Heavy Flamer requires you to be close, and then you could just rapid fire your Special Ammo. Sternies should have all combiweapons. I recomened and equal mix of Melta, FDlamer, and Plasma.

Deadshot wrote:Never give Sterguard any weapon other than a bolter or combi. Heavy Flamer requires you to be close, and then you could just rapid fire your Special Ammo. Sternies should have all combiweapons. I recomened and equal mix of Melta, FDlamer, and Plasma.

Ok, thanks.

Deadshot wrote:Never give Sterguard any weapon other than a bolter or combi. Heavy Flamer requires you to be close, and then you could just rapid fire your Special Ammo. Sternies should have all combiweapons. I recomened and equal mix of Melta, FDlamer, and Plasma.

I use my sternguard mainly for drive by shootings, ie. move the rhino up 12" disembark and unload on whatever's in range, as such a Str5 Ap4 flame template is very useful, sometimes 2 extra bolter shots just doesn't cut it (even with special ammo), taking flaming a mob of orks for example hitting 4+ orks with a weapon that beats their best armour save, denies cover and wounds on a 3+. This effect is doubled if you take two, and can really put the hurt on things due to the number of wounds caused.

I also reccomend melta over plasma for the combi-weapons. ID's paladins, makes you very effective tank hunters, is an assault weapon and no get hot rolls :-P

Just my £0.02

CaptainJay wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Never give Sterguard any weapon other than a bolter or combi. Heavy Flamer requires you to be close, and then you could just rapid fire your Special Ammo. Sternies should have all combiweapons. I recomened and equal mix of Melta, FDlamer, and Plasma.

I use my sternguard mainly for drive by shootings, ie. move the rhino up 12" disembark and unload on whatever's in range, as such a Str5 Ap4 flame template is very useful, sometimes 2 extra bolter shots just doesn't cut it (even with special ammo), taking flaming a mob of orks for example hitting 4+ orks with a weapon that beats their best armour save, denies cover and wounds on a 3+. This effect is doubled if you take two, and can really put the hurt on things due to the number of wounds caused.

I also reccomend melta over plasma for the combi-weapons. ID's paladins, makes you very effective tank hunters, is an assault weapon and no get hot rolls :-P

Just my £0.02

Thanks for the input!

I made a new list. Here it is:

HQ
Vulkan He'stan
190 points


ELITES
5 Assault Terminators with TH/SS
200 points

Sternguard with 2 combi-meltas (including the sarge), 3 meltaguns, sarge with LC; mounted in a Razorback with HB and extra armor
205 points


TROOPS
1x Tac Squad with meltaguns, MM, sarge with chainsword, mounted in a Rhino
210 points

2x Tac Squad with flamer, ML, sarge with chainsword, mounted in Rhinos
410 points


HEAVY SUPPORT
Land Raider Redeemer with MM and extra armor
265 points


TOTAL: 1480 points
Please help me on what to spend those last 20 points on.

Remove the extra armour on the Razorback. Give a Sgt in the Flamer squad a Power Fist, and spend 5 points on giving the other Melta Bombs. The Flamers and Redeemer are enough Anti-Horde, and the 2 Flamer Squads lack AT.

Well for starters you can't have 3 meltaguns in a sternguard squad. You'll have to drop one. Might I suggest using those extra points on a powerfist?

Also, if you insist on keeping the Tactical squads cheap, at least give the Sergeants Melta bombs. Melta bombs are very effective, and although they are a bit hit or miss, if you whiff and stun/immobilize a vehicle you can use them as a backup.


Give all 3 Tac squads Melta Bombs, and then drop the illegal 3rd melta from the Strenguard for a powerfist.

Deadshot wrote:Remove the extra armour on the Razorback. Give a Sgt in the Flamer squad a Power Fist, and spend 5 points on giving the other Melta Bombs. The Flamers and Redeemer are enough Anti-Horde, and the 2 Flamer Squads lack AT.

Why remove the armor on it? It seems pretty imperative that it gets to where it needs to be.
And couldn't I just put melta bombs on the 2 flamer squads?

You could, but a hidden PF is great right? I admit that keep moving is essential, so consider the armour on the Redeemer. It is much harder to stop.

Deadshot wrote:You could, but a hidden PF is great right? I admit that keep moving is essential, so consider the armour on the Redeemer. It is much harder to stop.

True, a PF hidden in a flamer squad would be nice. And I actually already have the armor on the LRR.

You gave some good points, so I think that I will do what you said.
Anything that I could use those extra 5 points for? Think I might magnetize a dozer blade on the Razorback.

Don't take PF's on a tac squad.

There are many more important things to spend 25pts on.

Like what?

Combi-weapons are about the only upgrade worth buying on tac squads.