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Sparks_Havelock wrote:I'd rather the +1 attack in case they get bogged down in combat after their initial charge, plus it makes them a good blocking unit rather than a fast moving shooting unit. Perhaps it could be an option, but I'd personally prefer the Hunting Lances for the first round & then two weapons for subsequent phases - then if they charge another unit they have 3 attacks on the charge - yes they wouldn't have the S5 I5 but they'd have more attacks.

If you use the special character it does give them furious charge so they become S6 I6 on the first charge attack.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I'd rather the +1 attack in case they get bogged down in combat after their initial charge, plus it makes them a good blocking unit rather than a fast moving shooting unit. Perhaps it could be an option, but I'd personally prefer the Hunting Lances for the first round & then two weapons for subsequent phases - then if they charge another unit they have 3 attacks on the charge - yes they wouldn't have the S5 I5 but they'd have more attacks.

You are forgetting the Hunting Lance is a power weapon on the turn it charges

against marines:
5 rough get 10 attacks STR5 INT5 power weapons
10 attacks hit about 5 times, wound about 3 or 4 times then don't get armor saves
or
5 rough get 15 attacks STR3 INT3 normal weapons
15 attacks hit about 7 or 8 times, wounds about 2 or 3 times they get armor saves

Depends what you are fighting but since the Grey Knights codex and space marine codex has came out seems everyone is using loyalist marines now.

Id run them if their hunting lance wasnt one use. Id like it to be more like the lance from WHFB, +2str on the charge, and they can ignore armor on the charge as well. I usually hate cav in sci fi, but as a fun unit every once and a while why not. Also i play bretonnians in whfb so i have plenty of horses.

I just found a nice range of cheap 28mm Cav on:

http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/GreatWar28/index.html

for example:

Valid reasons to use horses in a modern/futuristic war:

1. Maintenance. Horses need very little in the way of supply lines. A mechanized unit needs fuel, spare parts, and skilled mechanics to keep the vehicles operational. A horse unit needs fodder, which in most biomes can be gathered by the horses themselves.

2. Maneuverability. A horse unit cannot match the speed of mechanized over ideal terrain, but the worse the infrastructure, the more likely the horses are to be able to outpace the vehicles. Horses are much better at coping with sand, dense forest, or very uneven ground.

3. Stealth. Someone already mentioned the radar invisibilty of horses, but there are other important factors as well. Being much smaller, horses are easier to hide from air surveillance. Also, any internal combustion vehicle is going to be much louder, especially if it has to disturb the terrain. The only thing that can match a horse for mobility in poor terrain is a tracked vehicle, and that is going to be making tons of noise as it crushes undergrowth, etc.

Bludbaff wrote:Valid reasons to use horses in a modern/futuristic war:

1. Maintenance. Horses need very little in the way of supply lines. A mechanized unit needs fuel, spare parts, and skilled mechanics to keep the vehicles operational. A horse unit needs fodder, which in most biomes can be gathered by the horses themselves.

2. Maneuverability. A horse unit cannot match the speed of mechanized over ideal terrain, but the worse the infrastructure, the more likely the horses are to be able to outpace the vehicles. Horses are much better at coping with sand, dense forest, or very uneven ground.

3. Stealth. Someone already mentioned the radar invisibilty of horses, but there are other important factors as well. Being much smaller, horses are easier to hide from air surveillance. Also, any internal combustion vehicle is going to be much louder, especially if it has to disturb the terrain. The only thing that can match a horse for mobility in poor terrain is a tracked vehicle, and that is going to be making tons of noise as it crushes undergrowth, etc.

I agree that there are reasons, but its not true to keep a horse easier operational in warzones, then a vehicle. The food is harder to store and transport than fuel. And it needs veterinaries and farriers, not to mention that the horses might just not fit enough (mentally and physically).

Sure they need food, but who doesn't wanna have a pony around to play with?

I love ponies.

I have a ten man squad of tallarn rough riders I got in third Ed and I have never used them once. I am questioning why I am making a squad on bikes that I will never use. maybe they won't look so ridiculous and I might use them.

I just want to add, that since I refuse to pay so much $$$ for RR, I simply use my Bretonnian Knights...they are basically guard tithes from a feudal world and I even swap out the laspistol for the cc weapon to keep it WSIWYG.

The truly funny thing is that they are more effective in 40K than bret fantasy atm... :(

ShatteredBlade wrote:had Cadian Dirtbikes in plastic and Catachan..uhh.. ride able Genestealers then I just MIGHT consider it.

Oh if I had income and modelling skills...

i have seen them used to some decent effect competitivly.


It was in a complete foot guard list, no vehicles of any kind. a whole mess of Blob and heavy weapon squads along with maxed out RR.

the guy placed 4th at last year's ard boyz prelims behind a BT Crusader spam list.

dreadfury101 wrote:RR in snow places should have snowmobiles imo

seriously horses are stupid, i mean with the tech you could set up a insect legged mechanical shark with lazer beams... but we have horses...yaaayyyyy

Horses
Dont require Fuel
Can go where vehicles can(like up steps
Replace their own numbers
Here is an idea OP, Make Rough riders that ride tyranids into battle

I am making 5 with 2 melta guns. I think the bring fast and cheap melta and plasma to the guard army that dosent need it's own metal box.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I'd rather the +1 attack in case they get bogged down in combat after their initial charge, plus it makes them a good blocking unit rather than a fast moving shooting unit. Perhaps it could be an option, but I'd personally prefer the Hunting Lances for the first round & then two weapons for subsequent phases - then if they charge another unit they have 3 attacks on the charge - yes they wouldn't have the S5 I5 but they'd have more attacks.

Yeah more attacks but not a power weapon anymore
Hunting Lance gives +2 Str and Int and makes there attacks Unsavable.

I have a squad of rough riders myself and they have done rather well in terms of using melta and plasma weapons to kill armor. also killing off squads with their 1 shot power weapons.

But mine are half creativity and half wanting to dodge the heavy price tag.
I could not find the horse bound rough riders and didn't want to use bikes.

Mine have helicopter backpacks allowing them to bound forwards quickly and under control (no not like jump infantry, the heli packs are not strong enough to allow them to fly, fluff wise)

Engine of War wrote:I have a squad of rough riders myself and they have done rather well in terms of using melta and plasma weapons to kill armor. also killing off squads with their 1 shot power weapons.

But mine are half creativity and half wanting to dodge the heavy price tag.
I could not find the horse bound rough riders and didn't want to use bikes.

Mine have helicopter backpacks allowing them to bound forwards quickly and under control (no not like jump infantry, the heli packs are not strong enough to allow them to fly, fluff wise)

Sorry to be a wet blanket but wouldn't helicopter blades just make them an ork like jump infantry for imperial guard? I mean how would chopper back packs make them move like beast? Just have to say GO GO GADGET CHOPPER!!!!!

I absolutely love my Rough Riders. I always field them with my Mordian Army. They are awesome on their first charge.

I really like the idea of horses too. Especially for an army of dress uniforms. They are like the elitists. They are a noble class in the Military World. At least to me.

I think it is naturally programmed into humans to feel something deep down inside us when we see a massive wall of cavalry charging headlong into the enemy. I mean, who wasn't awestruck by the third Lord of the Rings final battle cavalry charge?

I know I was. And besides, they are fun to convert. With the introduction of the Empire Pistoliers boxed set, Rough Riders have never been easier to make.

Horses in space are stupid? No, you're stupid for being an armchair general and thinking you have a grasp on the reality of warfare. I'm not going to go into any specifics as to why, because that has been suitably well addressed, but I will point out that the opening battles of the first major war of the 21st century were fought on horseback (look it up), and that many special operations units are still taught to fight from horseback.

chaos0xomega wrote:Horses in space are stupid? No, you're stupid for being an armchair general and thinking you have a grasp on the reality of warfare. I'm not going to go into any specifics as to why, because that has been suitably well addressed, but I will point out that the opening battles of the first major war of the 21st century were fought on horseback (look it up), and that many special operations units are still taught to fight from horseback.

Remember in the 40K universe 95% of the human race does not know how the Magical lights work, it is a DARK AGE of knowledge, people pray to gods to fix there car. in the game Necromanda shows this face because the normal gang member does not know how to check or change ammo, they run out of ammo and drop the gun, they don't know how to reload, because they have no clue how guns work. cars run till their fuel cells run out, the people of the 40K universe are less technology advanced as we are today, in their own day to day life. if something don't work hit it with hand, if that don't fix it, kick it, if that don't fix it, hit it with a stick, then if still not work smash it with hammer till it works... and if it don't' work just brake. Why do you think Plasma weapons "Get Hot!", because they really don't even know to fix that problem. Horses are simple, reason why in WW1 horses were still used, German used horses, Brits used horses, all of Europe used horses because they were easier to use then tractors. Heck even in WW2 Russia still used horses most of the war, and heck the Imperial guard are very much pattered after WW2 USSR. Russia had tractors, can trucks, but they still used horses to pull guns, and move troops around on the battle field.

daniel79 wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I'd rather the +1 attack in case they get bogged down in combat after their initial charge, plus it makes them a good blocking unit rather than a fast moving shooting unit. Perhaps it could be an option, but I'd personally prefer the Hunting Lances for the first round & then two weapons for subsequent phases - then if they charge another unit they have 3 attacks on the charge - yes they wouldn't have the S5 I5 but they'd have more attacks.

If you use the special character it does give them furious charge so they become S6 I6 on the first charge attack.

Unfortunately, no they do not.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: Does the Furious Charge special rule give +1
Strength to attacks made with a close combat weapon
that strikes at a specific strength value? For example
are hits from Gabriel Seth’s Blood Reaver resolved at
Strength 8 or 9 when he has Furious Charge? (p75)
A: No. Hits from Gabriel Seth’s Blood Reaver would still
be resolved at Strength 8.

I use them in my Korsk army to great effect. They clear out Drop Podding units fairly well. A great one-shot counter-assault unit.

Of course I used "Cyber Mastiffs" for my particular army (which is based upon a FW and leans heavily on AdMech).

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I'd rather the +1 attack in case they get bogged down in combat after their initial charge, plus it makes them a good blocking unit rather than a fast moving shooting unit. Perhaps it could be an option, but I'd personally prefer the Hunting Lances for the first round & then two weapons for subsequent phases - then if they charge another unit they have 3 attacks on the charge - yes they wouldn't have the S5 I5 but they'd have more attacks.

If you use the special character it does give them furious charge so they become S6 I6 on the first charge attack.

Unfortunately, no they do not.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: Does the Furious Charge special rule give +1
Strength to attacks made with a close combat weapon
that strikes at a specific strength value? For example
are hits from Gabriel Seth’s Blood Reaver resolved at
Strength 8 or 9 when he has Furious Charge? (p75)
A: No. Hits from Gabriel Seth’s Blood Reaver would still
be resolved at Strength 8.

Hunting Lances don't happen at Strength 5 they happen at Str+2 so furiouis charge would increase the strength to (3+1) and then the hunting Lance would go 3+1+2, if you have a power fist you don't ignore the strength bonus form furious charge 4x2=8 for power fist.... (4x2)+1=9 for power fist and furious charge. so 3+2=5 hunting lance, 3+2+1= hunting lance and furious charge.

I use them in my Korsk army to great effect. They clear out Drop Podding units fairly well. A great one-shot counter-assault unit.

Of course I used "Cyber Mastiffs" for my particular army (which is based upon a FW and leans heavily on AdMech).

Hunting Lances are S5 I5. Look it up. IG codex pg 44.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Hunting Lances are S5 I5. Look it up. IG codex pg 44.

I am sorry they changed the wording from the older codexs....

Product Code: 60 03 01 05 001
page 19.
Hunting Lance: Rough Riders are sometimes issued with long hunting lance whose head bears a shaped explosive charge.................. blah blah blah......The lance adds +2 to the user's Strength and ignores armour saves...............blah blah blah....

Product Code: 60 03 01 05 003

Page 46

A model using a hunting lance cannot use an additional close combat weapon but adds +2 to its Strength and Initiatives when charging. A model using a hunting lance ignore Armour Saves.

Product Code: 60 03 01 05 004

page 44

When they charvge into close combat, a unit armed with hunting lances count as being armed with power weapons that strike at Strength and Initiative 5. Models using a hunting lance cannot gain an extra attack from having an additional close combat weapon.

Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

daniel79 wrote:

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

They are fleet. All cavalry and beasts are fleet.

As for furious charge and lances, it is one of those things that should work and I would always let someone play it as working, even if there is an FAQ that contradicts it. If it doesn't work then Kamir is pointless. From a RAI viewpoint, it was obviously intended that Kamir made RRs better at charging with lances..

Trickstick wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

They are fleet. All cavalry and beasts are fleet.

As for furious charge and lances, it is one of those things that should work and I would always let someone play it as working, even if there is an FAQ that contradicts it. If it doesn't work then Kamir is pointless. From a RAI viewpoint, it was obviously intended that Kamir made RRs better at charging with lances..

Well I agree with you, but Kamir also makes the rough riders almost decent at hand to hand after their first charge... No elite hand to hand unit, but for 10 pts a piece you can't expect to much from them.

daniel79 wrote:

Trickstick wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

They are fleet. All cavalry and beasts are fleet.

As for furious charge and lances, it is one of those things that should work and I would always let someone play it as working, even if there is an FAQ that contradicts it. If it doesn't work then Kamir is pointless. From a RAI viewpoint, it was obviously intended that Kamir made RRs better at charging with lances..

Well I agree with you, but Kamir also makes the rough riders almost decent at hand to hand after their first charge... No elite hand to hand unit, but for 10 pts a piece you can't expect to much from them.

Rough Riders are 5 points more expensive than a guardsmen. For that 5 points you get a fleet of foot moving, 12" charging, krak grenade wielding, strength 5 initiative 5 power weapon holding cheap charging unit. Sounds like a win to me.

For so few points you get so much.

Unless they stray into the sites of a Heavy Bolter or two! lol

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Unless they stray into the sites of a Heavy Bolter or two! lol

And compete with Hellhounds Variants, Vendettas, and Valkyries.