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Which are all SO good at counter-charges....






wait....

Hide them behind tanks or reserve them. By the time they turn up something will have strayed into charge range

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Trickstick wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

They are fleet. All cavalry and beasts are fleet.

As for furious charge and lances, it is one of those things that should work and I would always let someone play it as working, even if there is an FAQ that contradicts it. If it doesn't work then Kamir is pointless. From a RAI viewpoint, it was obviously intended that Kamir made RRs better at charging with lances..

Well I agree with you, but Kamir also makes the rough riders almost decent at hand to hand after their first charge... No elite hand to hand unit, but for 10 pts a piece you can't expect to much from them.

Rough Riders are 5 points more expensive than a guardsmen. For that 5 points you get a fleet of foot moving, 12" charging, krak grenade wielding, strength 5 initiative 5 power weapon holding cheap charging unit. Sounds like a win to me.

For so few points you get so much.

Imperial Guard 5 pt Upgrade:
yeah but they lose lasguns have to trade it for las pistol, they don't get +1 attack for duel wielding, they gain Krak Grenades, they lose ability to take Commissar, they gain Cavalry,
Grey Knight 5 pt upgrade:
Trade Bolters for storm bolters, gain Psk-out Grenades, Gain Force weapons, unit acts as pyker, gain deep strike, gains two psychic powers, gained preferred enemy (Daemons), can take Advance grey knight only weapons, lose access to basic heavy and special weapons, for 20 points can raise str of shooting attacks of the unit by one.

I think Grey Knights get the better deal...

daniel79 wrote:

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Trickstick wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

They are fleet. All cavalry and beasts are fleet.

As for furious charge and lances, it is one of those things that should work and I would always let someone play it as working, even if there is an FAQ that contradicts it. If it doesn't work then Kamir is pointless. From a RAI viewpoint, it was obviously intended that Kamir made RRs better at charging with lances..

Well I agree with you, but Kamir also makes the rough riders almost decent at hand to hand after their first charge... No elite hand to hand unit, but for 10 pts a piece you can't expect to much from them.

Rough Riders are 5 points more expensive than a guardsmen. For that 5 points you get a fleet of foot moving, 12" charging, krak grenade wielding, strength 5 initiative 5 power weapon holding cheap charging unit. Sounds like a win to me.

For so few points you get so much.

Imperial Guard 5 pt Upgrade:
yeah but they lose lasguns have to trade it for las pistol, they don't get +1 attack for duel wielding, they gain Krak Grenades, they lose ability to take Commissar, they gain Cavalry,
Grey Knight 5 pt upgrade:
Trade Bolters for storm bolters, gain Psk-out Grenades, Gain Force weapons, unit acts as pyker, gain deep strike, gains two psychic powers, gained preferred enemy (Daemons), can take Advance grey knight only weapons, lose access to basic heavy and special weapons, for 20 points can raise str of shooting attacks of the unit by one.

I think Grey Knights get the better deal...

I never said they got the best deal. They just get a good deal.

Besides, comparining grey knights to Imperial Guard isn't exactly the fairest.

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Trickstick wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

They are fleet. All cavalry and beasts are fleet.

As for furious charge and lances, it is one of those things that should work and I would always let someone play it as working, even if there is an FAQ that contradicts it. If it doesn't work then Kamir is pointless. From a RAI viewpoint, it was obviously intended that Kamir made RRs better at charging with lances..

Well I agree with you, but Kamir also makes the rough riders almost decent at hand to hand after their first charge... No elite hand to hand unit, but for 10 pts a piece you can't expect to much from them.

Rough Riders are 5 points more expensive than a guardsmen. For that 5 points you get a fleet of foot moving, 12" charging, krak grenade wielding, strength 5 initiative 5 power weapon holding cheap charging unit. Sounds like a win to me.

For so few points you get so much.

Imperial Guard 5 pt Upgrade:
yeah but they lose lasguns have to trade it for las pistol, they don't get +1 attack for duel wielding, they gain Krak Grenades, they lose ability to take Commissar, they gain Cavalry,
Grey Knight 5 pt upgrade:
Trade Bolters for storm bolters, gain Psk-out Grenades, Gain Force weapons, unit acts as pyker, gain deep strike, gains two psychic powers, gained preferred enemy (Daemons), can take Advance grey knight only weapons, lose access to basic heavy and special weapons, for 20 points can raise str of shooting attacks of the unit by one.

I think Grey Knights get the better deal...

I never said they got the best deal. They just get a good deal.

Besides, comparining grey knights to Imperial Guard isn't exactly the fairest.

Wait you mean Imperial Guard are so much more over powering compared to grey knights? Of course the local grey knight I know keeps complaining how under powered the Grey Knights are and how all the other armies get all the bonuses and free stuff...

Please smack him for me.

daniel79 wrote:

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Trickstick wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

They are fleet. All cavalry and beasts are fleet.

As for furious charge and lances, it is one of those things that should work and I would always let someone play it as working, even if there is an FAQ that contradicts it. If it doesn't work then Kamir is pointless. From a RAI viewpoint, it was obviously intended that Kamir made RRs better at charging with lances..

Well I agree with you, but Kamir also makes the rough riders almost decent at hand to hand after their first charge... No elite hand to hand unit, but for 10 pts a piece you can't expect to much from them.

Rough Riders are 5 points more expensive than a guardsmen. For that 5 points you get a fleet of foot moving, 12" charging, krak grenade wielding, strength 5 initiative 5 power weapon holding cheap charging unit. Sounds like a win to me.

For so few points you get so much.

Imperial Guard 5 pt Upgrade:
yeah but they lose lasguns have to trade it for las pistol, they don't get +1 attack for duel wielding, they gain Krak Grenades, they lose ability to take Commissar, they gain Cavalry,
Grey Knight 5 pt upgrade:
Trade Bolters for storm bolters, gain Psk-out Grenades, Gain Force weapons, unit acts as pyker, gain deep strike, gains two psychic powers, gained preferred enemy (Daemons), can take Advance grey knight only weapons, lose access to basic heavy and special weapons, for 20 points can raise str of shooting attacks of the unit by one.

I think Grey Knights get the better deal...

I never said they got the best deal. They just get a good deal.

Besides, comparining grey knights to Imperial Guard isn't exactly the fairest.

Wait you mean Imperial Guard are so much more over powering compared to grey knights? Of course the local grey knight I know keeps complaining how under powered the Grey Knights are and how all the other armies get all the bonuses and free stuff...

I can't tell if you are patronizing me or not, but the entire point of my first post has been lost. So I'll just repeat it again.

I like Rough Riders. They are guardsmen on horses with some cool stuff for 5 points more.

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Ignatius wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

Trickstick wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

sfshilo wrote:Why the hell aren't they FLEET? woooo 6 inch move and shoot, I can do that with infantry. The power charge is nice, but after that they are a shooting unit. (And a bad one at that.0

Not current codex but the codex before the current codex they were fleet of hoof:

They are fleet. All cavalry and beasts are fleet.

As for furious charge and lances, it is one of those things that should work and I would always let someone play it as working, even if there is an FAQ that contradicts it. If it doesn't work then Kamir is pointless. From a RAI viewpoint, it was obviously intended that Kamir made RRs better at charging with lances..

Well I agree with you, but Kamir also makes the rough riders almost decent at hand to hand after their first charge... No elite hand to hand unit, but for 10 pts a piece you can't expect to much from them.

Rough Riders are 5 points more expensive than a guardsmen. For that 5 points you get a fleet of foot moving, 12" charging, krak grenade wielding, strength 5 initiative 5 power weapon holding cheap charging unit. Sounds like a win to me.

For so few points you get so much.

Imperial Guard 5 pt Upgrade:
yeah but they lose lasguns have to trade it for las pistol, they don't get +1 attack for duel wielding, they gain Krak Grenades, they lose ability to take Commissar, they gain Cavalry,
Grey Knight 5 pt upgrade:
Trade Bolters for storm bolters, gain Psk-out Grenades, Gain Force weapons, unit acts as pyker, gain deep strike, gains two psychic powers, gained preferred enemy (Daemons), can take Advance grey knight only weapons, lose access to basic heavy and special weapons, for 20 points can raise str of shooting attacks of the unit by one.

I think Grey Knights get the better deal...

I never said they got the best deal. They just get a good deal.

Besides, comparining grey knights to Imperial Guard isn't exactly the fairest.

Wait you mean Imperial Guard are so much more over powering compared to grey knights? Of course the local grey knight I know keeps complaining how under powered the Grey Knights are and how all the other armies get all the bonuses and free stuff...

I can't tell if you are patronizing me or not, but the entire point of my first post has been lost. So I'll just repeat it again.

I like Rough Riders. They are guardsmen on horses with some cool stuff for 5 points more.

I am not trying to patronize you, I just sometimes word things wrong and they come out wrong, and then someone say something that rubs me the wrong way.... I try sometimes to say something in either humor, or sarcasm, and people start fights. This time I am patronizing some Grey Knights players, those ones that don't understand 40K is a game, and is for fun and enjoyment. I have one friend who QUIT playing 40K because of all the CUT THROAT 40K players that are just PSYCHO about winning at all cost no matter if they knowing brake the rules just hoping they get away with it. He was a very great sportsman he actually would try to give me bonuses that are not meant to be used. AKA telling me Blessing of the Blood God works likes Iron Halo and allows me to cancel any psychic power on a role of 2+, I keep telling him it don't work that way, but he keeps trying to give me that advantage which would be 100% cheating in my mind... I don't want to abuse game rules and misunderstanding of my opponent. I have printed out all the 40K Q&A so I can help people, since not everyone at the game has internet access or access to a printer.

You could take something from here
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440121a&rootCatGameStyle=
And then get some ig legs. Cut at the knee, crotch area. put some bendable wire(to pose it correctly then fill the legs.

It's not that their bad..it's just that your average list doesn't have room for them. There are alot better things you can spend your points on. And your cash on, for that matter. Sentinels give you more survivability, firepower and are an annoying CC tarpit. Hellhounds are pretty meh but it's 5th ed and their vehicles with a giant flamer...so..yeah. Vets in the fliers give you any mobility you need, plus TL LC goodness. There's just no reason to take RR.

daniel79 wrote:

dreadfury101 wrote:RR in snow places should have snowmobiles imo

seriously horses are stupid, i mean with the tech you could set up a insect legged mechanical shark with lazer beams... but we have horses...yaaayyyyy

in WW2 horses were obsolete, but Russia still used them because that is what they had.... remember in 40K universe the Imperial guard really don't understand how the internal combustion engine really works they pray to the machine god hit the engine with a hammer and hope it works.

Yupyupyup. And horses are cool, everyone loves horses.

Emerett wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

dreadfury101 wrote:RR in snow places should have snowmobiles imo

seriously horses are stupid, i mean with the tech you could set up a insect legged mechanical shark with lazer beams... but we have horses...yaaayyyyy

in WW2 horses were obsolete, but Russia still used them because that is what they had.... remember in 40K universe the Imperial guard really don't understand how the internal combustion engine really works they pray to the machine god hit the engine with a hammer and hope it works.

Yupyupyup. And horses are cool, everyone loves horses.

Germany, Great Britain, and Many of the other armies in WW1 used horses, and Romania, Russia, Hungry, and a few other countries used Horses in WW2 because of the ease of maintenance and accessibility, Imperial Guard are normal soldiers recruited out of a Human Population that is as ignorant to technology and learning as Peasants from the Dark Ages.

Germany, Great Britain and even the United States used horses in world war two.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_World_War_II#United_Kingdom

WIth the British Army the few horses that were on strength by 1939 were either with colonnial troops or belonged to more 'ceremonial' units such as the Household Division. The BEF was unique in that it was the first fully mechanised field army - there wasn't a single horse on strength with it in 1940. Both Germany & France, as well as the Low Countries, used horses in significant numbers, but Britain was rolling around France in 1940 on wheels, when it wasn't marching.

daniel79 wrote:in WW2 horses were obsolete, but Russia still used them because that is what they had....

Horses were massively important during WW2 for most armies, excepting Britain &, later on, the United States.

daniel79 wrote:remember in 40K universe the Imperial guard really don't understand how the internal combustion engine really works they pray to the machine god hit the engine with a hammer and hope it works.

I don't subscribe to that view simply because of human curiosity. If there is one thing you can guarantee a human will do when presented with something it doesn't know, is to take it apart to find out how it works. That's how we've gotten as far as we have today. You can try and indoctrinate it out of humanity, but it will always be there, that curiosity, asking questions, wanting to know, to learn, to understand.

Humans know how their equipment works, how their stuff functions, but they believe the God-Emperor or the Machine-Spirit will help them maintain or repair the item.

Emerett wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

dreadfury101 wrote:RR in snow places should have snowmobiles imo

seriously horses are stupid, i mean with the tech you could set up a insect legged mechanical shark with lazer beams... but we have horses...yaaayyyyy

in WW2 horses were obsolete, but Russia still used them because that is what they had.... remember in 40K universe the Imperial guard really don't understand how the internal combustion engine really works they pray to the machine god hit the engine with a hammer and hope it works.

Yupyupyup. And horses are cool, everyone loves horses.

I don't... who needs horses when you can have powered exo-suits!

Flinty wrote:

Emerett wrote:

daniel79 wrote:

dreadfury101 wrote:RR in snow places should have snowmobiles imo

seriously horses are stupid, i mean with the tech you could set up a insect legged mechanical shark with lazer beams... but we have horses...yaaayyyyy

in WW2 horses were obsolete, but Russia still used them because that is what they had.... remember in 40K universe the Imperial guard really don't understand how the internal combustion engine really works they pray to the machine god hit the engine with a hammer and hope it works.

Yupyupyup. And horses are cool, everyone loves horses.

I don't... who needs horses when you can have powered exo-suits!

And that is why there are NO mounted Space Marines on Horses.... Imperial guard don't have access to Powered Exo-suits, and wouldn't know how to wear them.

daniel79 wrote:And that is why there are NO mounted Space Marines on Horses.... Imperial guard don't have access to Powered Exo-suits, and wouldn't know how to wear them.

Why are people so intent on doing such disservice to humanity & our superb intelligence? We're not stupid creatures, we're extremely intelligent. We will easily recognise that those bits are legs, these straps obviously go over our shoulders because what else are they going to rest on, and this bit will go across the back & shoulders because if they were round the front they'd inhibit our heads & possibly our breathing, as well as being impossible to strap up on your own if the buckles are covering our spine & over our coccyx, as well as other things. I bet you that you could take those suits & give them to an 'average' group of people and they'd have worked out, by themselves or as a group, how to wear them within 60 minutes. Give them another few hours on top & they will have worked out how to use them.

I might use them under the following conditions.
1. Lower the actual money price.
2. Less ugly models, come on, I want something pretty to look at, Cadian rough riders sounds pretty cool, Death Riders are awesome, Praetorians and Moridians would probably be fun, looking like lancers from the 1800s.
3. Let me take massive squadrons of them, at least place the upper limit at 20.

Buttons wrote:I might use them under the following conditions.1. Lower the actual money price.

Indeed, the ones GW currently sell are horrendously overpriced for what has, to me, always been an ugly set of models. The FW Death Riders & Tallarn Desert Raider ones are really nice but expensive, and would be out of place if you don't have a Tallarn or Death Korp force.

Buttons wrote:2. Less ugly models, come on, I want something pretty to look at, Cadian rough riders sounds pretty cool, Death Riders are awesome, Praetorians and Moridians would probably be fun, looking like lancers from the 1800s.

I agree. On a wider note, not just with regards to Rough Riders, I would love to see the enormous diversity of the Imperial Guard brought back into the army with plastic sets; Mordians & Praetorian box (just needs that headswap), Tallarn, Steel Legion, Valhallan, Vostroyan (I suppose) and others I've forgotten. If they did that & had Rough Rider options for each, or even limited to just a few (Cadian, Mordian/Praetorian & perhaps Valhallans, but not DKoK or Tallarn because of FW) you might see more of them on the board in IG armies.

Buttons wrote:3. Let me take massive squadrons of them, at least place the upper limit at 20.

Absolutely. No, forget that. I want to be able to field a whole regiment of them. As in Squadrons & Troops of them. Have taking a Rough Rider command allow you to take Rough Riders as a Troop choice with special orders for the Rough Riders (i.e. having a 'Fleet' order, for example).

They're already Fleet.

You know, I still forget 'Fleet' is under the 'Cavalry' rule. Probably because it isn't specifically mentioned in the Codex.

they look terrible. like sombrero midgets riding ponies. i wouldnt pay 20 dollars for 10 of those ugly models let alone 100+.

kb305 wrote:they look terrible. like sombrero midgets riding ponies. i wouldnt pay 20 dollars for 10 of those ugly models let alone 100+.

That's the beauty of conversions. All the parts to make Rough Riders are on GW's site, you just have to know which ones to use and where to look. You can get them for pretty cheap too.

Yeah I am converting some Warriors of Chaos models from Warriors of Chaos to Chaos Space Marine Horsemen of Chaos, similar to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse for 40K. the Horsemen can be fielded by Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons. The unit counts as an Elite choice.

Horsemen of Chaos (5): 300 pts

Herald of Horsemen (Undivided)
Death/Fate Horsemen (Tzeentch)
Pestilence/Disease Horsemen (Nurgle)
War/combat Horsemen (Khorne)
Famine/Suffering Horsemen (Slaanish)

WS:4 BS:4 St:4 To:5 In:4 Wo:2 At:2 Ld:10 Save:3+

Unit Type: Cavalry

Special Rules: Fearless, Deep Strike, Furious Charge, Horseman Powers, Eternal Warrior, Descendents of Daemons

Equipment: Power Armour, Chaos Lance, Chaos Combat Shield, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Freg Grenades, Krak Grenades

Chaos Lance: A power lance infused with the Power of the Warp to cut through reality itself. The Chaos Lance is a Two handed close combat weapon that ignores armor saves, and gives a bonus of +1 Initiative and +3 Strength on the turn the unit charges. On fallowing turns the unit can switch to different weapons.

Chaos Combat Shield: a low powered storm shield that draws it powers from the warp instead of a power-cell granting the rider a 5+ Invulnerable Save.

Descendents of Daemons: This special rule allows the horsemen to re-role failed reserve rolls if arriving by Deep Strike. Also, due to their ability to perceive between the barrier between the warp and reality they scatter 1d6” dice less. (normally 1d6 instead of 2d6)

Horsemen Powers:
Undivided - This horseman's presence give the unit regeneration on 6, if a horseman took a wound but is not killed at the beginning of the Chaos players turn role a d6 to try to regain the lose wound. Undivided horseman counts as a Icon for summoning daemons, and teleporting units like terminators and obliterators
Tzeentch - This horseman's presence increases the Unit's invulnerable save from a 5+ to a 4+ while this horse man is alive at beginning of the turn.
Nurgel - This Horseman's presence increases the Unit's toughness from 5 to 6 while this horse man is alive at beginning of the turn.
Khorne - This Horseman's Presence gives the unit +1 Weapon Skill in a round that this Horseman started the turn alive.
Slaanish - This Horseman's presence gives the unit +1 attacks in a round that this horseman started the turn alive.

Currently I'm working on converting some rough and ready rough riders, and completely unwilling to pay for the standard models. If price is the issue then conversion isnt exactly impossible given the sheer number of mounted models provided by gw.

5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen - £15.50
10 Forgeworld Renegade Arms - £12.50

So for 10 easily converted rough riders you'd be paying out... 43.50, or roughly £4 a piece.

Its still not cheap but it gives you some nice looking models and the ability to field one of the lesser used parts of a codex.

I took the home brewed rules to the main game store I go for 40K and the guy who runs the games workshop games, reviewed the rules I wrote, and made some adjustments.