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The Aquilla does not represent Terra and Mars. But I'll eagerly await pics nonetheless.

The Aquila, symbol of the Imperium

The Aquila is a two headed eagle, and represents the entire Imperium of Mankind. During the times before the Horus Heresy, the two headed eagle was blind-folded on one side, and the other had eyes. The backward facing blinded side represented looking back into the past, while the forward facing sighted eagle was looking into the future. After the Heresy, and the Imperial Cult took hold, the Aquila's means changed to represent the two headed Empire of the Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus[u][/u]


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Via Lexicanum

Oh really? I read that the Imperial Eagle was like GW management. It has two heads which would normally be what you mean (looking at the past/future) , but one is blind and they are both heading in different directions

No but seriously I had thought it was the pre-heresy meaning but now I know.

^ THIS!

but in all seriousness you are totally correct.

I'll post photos of what i mean with my theme when i find the one's i've meant to strip. I lost them! :(

I am all for counts as, but that is a bit ridiculous for a tournament. AdMech as IG or SM makes sense, but having to refer to a cheat sheet during a tournament to know if that is a destroyer or heavy destroyer is too much. Mind you, this is all perfectly fine in a friendly game and I applaud you for making what must be a beautifully converted army, but for a tourney, its too much.

How could Admech be marines? none of them are actually supposed to be in power armor, take tech priests for example as most military based units for the cult mechanicus are protectors, skitarii and pretorians which are all non-power armored.

All models but the warriors have cron bits on them, all WYSIWYG, guh i need a lightbox to explain.

These are NOT MINE

but this is similar to what my skitarii look like, but i've converted theguns to look much more like a 50's style raygun.

IronfrontAlex wrote:These are NOT MINE

but this is similar to what my skitarii look like, but i've converted theguns to look much more like a 50's style raygun.

Well, in this picture, I see T3 humans, with carapace armor and lasguns... Which are closest to 'count as' imperial guard.

nkelsch snatched the words right out of my mouth:

If you wanna counts-as AdMech, then Imperial Guard is most likely your way to go.

Using necron rules, with models not corresponding to what people usually associate with them, is a bad idea as it WILL confuse them.
You appearently have already experienced such confusion by your gamepartners, and you NEED TO ASK.


As a rule of thumb, anytime somebody makes a "is it okay if I do XXX" thread, the answer is:


If you need to ask, then obviously your sane mind should tell you: No! Use something more appropriate.

Agree with nkelsch on the above comment... I'm just about to start building a BA army using alternate models, but the marine models are in power armor, the dreadnought models are giant walkers that look extremely similar to, well, dreadnoughts... basically, it's got to be easy to tell what's what.

Those models look like guardsmen, and so should be fielded as such, imo...

Still think you should do the project, just not with the necron codex!

IronfrontAlex wrote:How could Admech be marines? none of them are actually supposed to be in power armor, take tech priests for example as most military based units for the cult mechanicus are protectors, skitarii and pretorians which are all non-power armored.

In the IG codex, Straken get a 3+ armor save from his bionics.

The Warriros and flayed ones are the only units in the army which does not have a single necron bit on them. the rest will/are based on cron bits (with either GS sculped over or something else).


note these are also old pics, most of these have been painted.


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My reasons for trying it up as admech:

T3 is for the guard. but what about things that cannot feel pain, which have more machine than man in them?

think about the old bionics rule, everyone pretty much has bionics in the army sooo..... reanimation protocols?

These guys look like they got a 4+

Don't look anything like necrons, they look like IG. The rules should reflect what they look like.

Make a choice, do you like the rules, or do you like the models?

-If you like the necron rules, use necron models.
-If you want to model admech, and make them look like the pictures you showed, then use the IG rules.

This is Exactly the main problem with counts as. Someone wants to use one set of models, but wants to play them with rules that don't fit those models.

Personally I have no issue with this. If all your models are unique enough to have obvious differences?

IE: If all your warriors have the same look, and look NOTHING like your Immortals, for example...whats the issue? I see none.

The whole "does not look like it would use those rules" goes beyond the tournament question. Need I remind you that Skitari are HEAVY on the bionic side? Like Straken? Who has a 3+?

JoeyFox wrote: Personally I have no issue with this. If all your models are unique enough to have obvious differences?

IE: If all your warriors have the same look, and look NOTHING like your Immortals, for example...whats the issue? I see none.

The whole "does not look like it would use those rules" goes beyond the tournament question. Need I remind you that Skitari are HEAVY on the bionic side? Like Straken? Who has a 3+?

And yet I see humans in robes with lasguns.

Maybe I can make a whole army of cloaked figures and can call them whatever army i want because there may be anything from 2+ armor save under there to 6+ tee shirts... Who knows?

They don't have obvious differences from Iguard and this seems like a poorly disguised attempt to bandwagon the latest codex of the month. There is plenty in the Iguard codex which can be used to represent admech... the army may be poorly constructed from a meta point of view, but it will work fine from a rules point of view.

These fail rule of cool. I can't see how the rest of the Necron army will be shoehorned into these models.

The issue is an opponent needing a cheat sheet so he can tell which unit is which, and what he's fighting. It's hard enough getting in all your turns in a tournament game. Wasting time, or making bad moves because it isn't obvious what models your opponent has on the board isn't fair.

I could see using the Necron book for the Adeptus Mechanicus, but not as presented, nor (really) as described in the background.

What I see with both sets of models are, effectively, storm troopers. If you want to see me on them being "more machine than man," then make them look the part. Let's see some crazy bionic augmentation or something to justify the statline you're wanting to use.

Like I said, I like the idea. I'm just not digging on the implementation at the moment.

I kinda agree with Barkdreg on this one. If you can properly add mechy-bits to them, then you make them appear more and more like something with a higher save or toughness, and less and less like generic guard. Now, personally, I'm a big proponent of player creativity, so far be it from me to try and control your style. If I can tell what they are (and believe me, I'll be asking questions before and during the game to make sure I know what I'm shooting/assaulting), then really I don't see a logical reason why you can't use them against me. Now, what you need to remember is that everyone's different. As we have seen in this thread, you will come across those hardliners who will refuse to play against anything that doesn't follow their definition of what should and shouldn't be. In a casual game setting, you can just move on to more open-minded opponents. In a tournament, though, for all intents and purposes you just need to convince one person. The TO.

Bottom line, if you're going to do a full set of conversions/counts as/whatever, then don't let anyone tell you "You have to use army X rules because I said so." Instead, put in the effort to make them look as close as possible. Make them pretty. It will potentially be hard work, but if you want to use this model with that army, it can usually be done. Eventually, with enough practice and skill, your stuff will look good enough so that even the haters run out of steam.

(At least, that's how it's gone in my experience.)

Agree with nkelsh. The TO is trying to get some sort of validation in here and for the most part he is not.

Just buy some necron models and quit trying to shoe horn your tencho daemon army into a necron one.

Wow, you guys are so upbeat it's almost painful

@OP

I've personally found that Dakka isn't the place to ask about count-as armies. Build something that looks amazing and even if someone needs a cheat sheet or unit tags (use both) and 99% of people will never say a word and will compliment you on your army. It's all about execution honestly.

On here I have caught an absolute ration of negative thoughts on some of my converted armies but I've played with them on both coasts and gotten nothing but compliments. Build what you want, play what you want, present the force as a whole and clear it with the TO before you show up. Some TO's, like Mikhaila, might not be cool with it but others will. Those are my thoughts anyway.

No, no and no. Use IG rules if you are using human moddels no mather how "upgraded" they are. If you want to play Necrons play said army! I would hate to play this mess, having to coniunigly ask what a unit dose, stast and so on would be a massive drag. And why should your basic Skiitari have a low save value? I can see it with praetorians and such but not witch rank and file Ad mech troops

Hulksmash wrote: Some TO's, like Mikhaila, might not be cool with it but others will. Those are my thoughts anyway.

I'm very cool with the concept of 'counts as armies'. Someone has a great idea and works hard to model and paint an army. Show me that army, and most of the time I'll say "Looks cool, no problem, it's approved for the tournament, just explain things to your opponent"

Unfortunately, what most people want is a blank check of approval that they can bring what they want, and call it what they want without putting in the time and effort that people like you do, Hulk, I've gotten tired of people just wanting to use vanilla models from one army as the flavor of the month, and using excuses like "Well, Chaos Marines suck and I don't feel like buying Space Wolves."

If anything Hulk, you should be in agreement with me. After all, the lame 'counts as' armies make it tougher on the guys that do good work and produce interesting armies with nice paint jobs.) They give 'counts as' a bad rep.

To the OP: Your models don't look bad, they just don't look like Necrons. Run them as IG and I'd say they deserve a compliment. Running them as Necrons gets a WT...???

I havnt run anything big, just a couple of small tournaments of 8-18 people but I couldnt see why themed armies would be frowned upon. Rather, I think the opposite should be true, if your making a themed army your most likely not going to be as competative as some of the other lists in the scene. Theres nothing I enjoy more than to see an awesome converted, well painted themed army. It brings out an aura of inspiration to anyone that walks within 20feet of it.

Also, your army looks great, awesome work. +1

Nothing ruins a tourney experience worse than playing against a bad 'counts as' total conversion army. It is like being given an uncompetitive compromised game in a competitive event. Being unclear with modeling directly impacts the ability to play the game quickly and fairly and compromises the integrity of the game.

I have seen good total conversion armies and bad ones. Most ADMECH armies are bad 'counts as' as they are clearly imperial, holding imperial weapons and shoe-horned in an unreasonable way into a more favorable codex.

Hulksmash wrote:Wow, you guys are so upbeat it's almost painful

@OP

I've personally found that Dakka isn't the place to ask about count-as armies. Build something that looks amazing and even if someone needs a cheat sheet or unit tags (use both) and 99% of people will never say a word and will compliment you on your army. It's all about execution honestly.

On here I have caught an absolute ration of negative thoughts on some of my converted armies but I've played with them on both coasts and gotten nothing but compliments. Build what you want, play what you want, present the force as a whole and clear it with the TO before you show up. Some TO's, like Mikhaila, might not be cool with it but others will. Those are my thoughts anyway.

Gotta agree.

people on the interwebz love to spout off about doom and gloom and the horror of what the OP suggets, but the average well adjusted gamer isn't going to raise the stink that many are suggesting.

If you have spent hundreds of hours and dollars building a beautiful and unique army that is obviously a labor of love and not an attempt to "shoehorn" then the vast majority of people you meet are gonna have no problem with it, and those that do are probably people you be better off not playing anyways...

Personally I don’t think there’s a codex out at the moment that does Ad Mech complete justice. An Ad Mech proxy codex would need GEQ units with FNP in order to fully work (and there’s none as far as I can see). IG and Necrons are probably the best bets for a proxy ruleset (with IG representing initiates and Necrons representing fully bionic specialists).

I reckon it might be a bit of a stretch in a tourney scene but labelled movement trays (with labels only stating what the unit they’re proxying e.g. immortals) and a pictured reference sheet could clear a lot of confusion. Avoiding complex wargear combinations could also prevent a lot of confusion.

I reckon the way the miniatures are modelled, I personally don’t think they look bionic enough to represent an extra bionic Ad Mech list using the Necron codex. The miniatures need breather masks and archaic bionic limbs IMO. You should try to emulate Micro Arts Studios Iron Brotherhood range with your conversions as these better represent the theme you’re going for (extra bionic Ad Mech). Oddly enough, the heavy use of Cadian parts makes them perfect for an IG based codex list.

I love themed armies. I think they look spectacular

But I believe there is a point where it's too much. If your opponent cannot easily tell what is what, or at least have a que to easily remind them, I think it may be over the top.

One or two things that your opponent needs to be reminded of is fine. But if your opponent struggles to remember what anything in your force is, its an issue.

Just my 2 cents.
~Ghost

I like the look and idea behind your army. My suggestion would be to buy a box of necrons and splice in an arm or leg on each guy (even the rib cage looking chest piece would look sweet converted up a bit). Using enough pieces will not only give it a more mechanical feel, but also a tie into the necrons. I think its possible to pull this off really well. Good luck!

If you are building a “Counts as” army you should find the codex that best fits your theme.

For an example, if you are building a pre-heresy army you should use either one of the Space Marine codexes, or the Chaos Space Marine codex. It would be too confusing if you want to use it as a “counts as” Eldar army.

I am working on a Harlequin army right now and I am looking to use either the Dark Eldar codex or the Eldar codex. I would not think about using them as Tyranids.

What I am trying to say is that it is unreasonable to try to use one army to represent every codex out there by just using Y models equals X unit. They should be similar and make a reasonable proxy. If you are using IG models and want to play them as necrons, you are not doing it for the theme, you are doing it to play a better codex.

Leigen_Zero wrote:

I mean, the whole point is that we have to match the rules as best we can to the army we wish to field, as a random made-up example, say I wanted to field an all-ogryn IG army, personally (remember the ridiculous hypotheticality of this example) I think the best guess would be to use the 'nid dex (because I can take squads of warriors and warrior prime HQs which are roughly ogryn-sized blah blah), represent devourers as ripper guns and barbed stranglers as missile launchers, it would be very difficult to say 'these are nids'.

But if I give a cheat sheet to my opponent, with a photo of an ogryn with ripper gun and say 'this is a nid warrior with devourer' and then a photo of a ogryn with missile launcher and say 'this is a warrior with barbed strangler' then I'm not sure how exactly that would ruin a game.


Now then, I can appreciate that a 'bad counts as' would be using ogryns with ripper guns to represent BOTH devourers AND barbed stranglers.

So using your example, "match the rules as best we can to field the army we wish to field" I would start with the Imperial Guard Codex, and take a lot of Ogryns and start to build my army around that.

The last army i did was Crimson Fists as Blood Angels. Im a big Blood Angel fan. It was my first space marine chapter. The thing is i had painted too many blood red and wanted something new. So i bought the crimson fists bits for tanks and shoulder pads. I wanted a Crimson Fists Painted army. It was 35 bolt pistol and chainsword, 15 devastators, a sanguinary priest and librarian, and 7 razorbacks all painted up as Crimson Fists. I although did use a Blood Angel Codex List. Is this now a bad counts as army too?