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This.

best bet is to pick a theme, and an attacmk methodology to got with it, then shop accordingly.

I run a Haemonculus themed coven list, with hellion support and a small smattering of kabalites.

Method- strike precisely at a few units that are key parts of the enemy force, then move on, attack suddenly via deepstrike/outflank and WWP's, ideally in overwhelming force from a wwp right next to some critical unit...

This works for me, at the cost of a lot of risk, as the stuff in reserve dies if the stuff on the board does.

Venomspam full of blaster toting trueborn and so on is also popular, and relies on speedy skiffs closing too fast with the enemy to kill them all then blastering them down.

Not my thing, but it works well for others.

I'd proxy a few things, play a few games, get to know which style sits you, then go shopping

Any comments on the DE battleforce?

It's the best deal going out of all the battleforce IMHO.

Buy 1 of those and a Haemonculus and you're almost at 400 points. Buy a second one, a Raider and 2 venoms and you're off to a great start if you want a fairly shootie force. You'll also have enough vehicles to mount every single unit so you can harass them fairly early. Which ever type of list you plan on running, I can't really see anything in the battleforce box that can't be used.

OK ive got a list that im working on for purchasing now and some feedback from you guys who have been extreamly helpful so far would be apprecated.



Lileth
Bloodbridesx8 w/ Hydra gauntletsx3 Haywire Grenades
Siren Haywire/plasma grenades Blast pistol agonizer
Raider

Haemonculus Ancient Huskblade WWPx2
Haemonculus Liquifire Hexrifle
Haemonculus Hexrifle WWP
Wracks x6 Liquifier
Acothyst Venom Blade
Raider


Wracks x9
Acothyst

Wracksx9
Acothyst

Razorwing Jetfighter Necrotoxin x2 Night shields Flickerfield
Razorwing Jetfighter Shatterfield Missile x2 Night shields Flickerfield
Ravager Enhanced Athersails Nightshields Flickerfield

Kabalite Trueborn x9 Blaster x4 Dark Lance x2 Haywire grenades
Dracon
Raider



This is super rough, as i have no idea really what im doing with dark eldar yet so ANY critique will be extreamly helpful. Thanks a million!

You need to decide first and foremost whether you want to run a WWP or mech list.

Nightshields+Flickerfields is generally overkill, costs too much. Pick one, basically. I think flickerfields are more useful personally to protect transports since they're goin to be in the thick of things. Nightshields are, indeed, useful on the heavy support options but I still prefer just the flickers as the range of Dark Lances means you're going to get hit by that krak missile or Lascannon or Autocannon anyway.

You don't want both a hexrifle and a liquifier on your Haemonculus. Pick one.

Acothysts are of dubious value on a wrack squad unless you're adding them for an agoniser or something.

Blast Pistol...Meh. You got the haywire grenades for that.

Lileth is generally too expensive for games under 2000 pts IMO. Generic Succubus w/ Agoniser is more point efficient if you want the Wych-y feel.

The Ancient upgrade on a Haemonculus is really not worth the points IMO. I personally don't think they're much for CC anyway. More for pain token and liquifier fun or just vanilla. Huskblade for the same reason. I only like Huskblades on Archons. I really like them on Archons.

Dracon isn't good for shooty True Born. Only use your True Born for shooting, resist making them an expensive and mediocre CC squad. Dracon doesn't buff LD so really not needed for the extra attack since they're meant to shoot anyway. I don't think dark lances are good on these guys because they will be moving to use their blasters. They won't really get a chance to use the DLs. Either go all DL or all Blaster. All blaster seems to be the better choice so they can scoot around and blast tanks and other baddies. In the same vein, I don't think the haywires are wise investment. Think about reducing them and only retaining the blasters then dropping them in a venom for the dakka. Six-twelve poisoned shots at 36"? Yes, please.

For the Ravager, I think the Athersails are meh but some people seem to like them. Think about going dual ravagers and one Razorwing. I personally think Monoscythe missiles are enough for making blobs cry but at 5 pts a pop...Well, whatever floats your boat. I think the Necrotoxin is a better option though if you're going to do it if only for the pinning. Str 7 with rerolls is great...But the other just lets you wound on a +2 anyway and pins with an AP value if not too impressive.

I find razorflails to be more killy on the Wychs because of their lackluster strength the rerolls really help; however, the hydra gauntlets have the potential to do better but are more random. Really, take what you will but just be aware of that.

Kudos on picking Dark Eldar, they're definitely one of the more unique and rewarding armies in 40k at this time.

By rewarding I mean that, unlike Guard or Grey Knights, they are definitely not an "easy mode" army. It takes time and practice to master Dark Eldar but once you do, damn do they ever work well!

On to the critique.

*Disclaimer: Communication is 30% tone of voice, 45% body language and 15% linguistic. In other words, while what I'm about to write is going to sound harsh, all you're seeing is 15% of the message I'm trying to convey, which is built upon my experience with the Dark Eldar over the past months. In reality I'm smiling and sharing my insights, insights which have been gained mostly from being tabled multiple due to my over-valuation of certain really cool toys.

Let me start by saying that your list seems interesting in that it's definitely not using the more common approaches to units. That being said, I can see that this list does not play to the strengths enough that the weaknesses are compensated for.

A. Very little anti-vehicle.
B. Points spent on cool toys that have little payoff.

I can't fault you for point #2 because let's face it, Dark Eldar have a ton of cool looking toys that just beg to be used. Sadly many of these just don't work too well unless you spend a bunch of points to maximise their potential. This will be a long list.

1. A Ravager has only 2 states: shooting, waiting to shoot. Aethersails are wasted points on a Ravager in that you're losing a turn of shooting just to get a better shot, which you never be wasting by moving more than 12 inches anyways. Work on perfecting your perfecting your deployment and save some points.

2. Blasterborn are made to shoot. They should never in range to use grenades. Ever. Give that job Wyches.

3. A Dracon gives no bonus to a Trueborn squad since they're all at Ld 9. Even with a blast pistol, he's a waste. Cut the squads down to a max of 6, ideally 5 since then they get a venom and thus get 12 Splinter Cannon shots instead of just 1 Dark Lance.

4. A Husk Blade is a waste of point unless you also take the soul trap because then your Strength can actually hurt. Otherwise you're wounding on 5's. For max wounds get a venom blade or buy an agonizer, which is still not cheap but at least it always wounds on a 4+.

5. Raiders. Always take Flicker Fields. They're not as situational as Night Shields and will actually save your butt quite often when you're not in cover, which you should always be in...

6.Razorwings. Never buy the bigger missiles. The standard missiles already wound Marines on a 2+ so why sacrifice a S6 weapon? If you're concerned about Monstrous Creatures, that's what Dark Lances are for. Spending point on S7 missiles still means you're barely penning on vehicles anyways so just don't go there. You're better off with more S6 Large Blasts.

7. The basic rule of 40k is shoot the stabby ones, stab the shooty ones. Wracks with Acothyst. no Liquifier and no Venom are just begging to be shot to death as they have no reach.
Whether you're DarkFootDar or NormalFootDar, is just not usable in the current state of the game where everyone has "fairly cheap" vehicles. Granted a souped up Chimera is probably less than a Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons but at least they can't match your valume of shots.

8. WWP seem like a great idea on paper until you're faced with the fact that DE have no real way of affecting Reserve rolls like Tau do so you never if you'll ever get reserves to show up on time and on target, because you never know if you're going to drop the WWP on target in turn 1. If you don't, I guarantee you all your reserves will enter on turn 2, miles away from anything that looks like a target, which means you'll be torrented down by turn 4 at the latest. Don't ask. It's happened too often to be passed off as bad luck...

9. Hydra Gauntlets are better suited for small units of Wyches in that they boost your number of attacks quite easily. When working with large squad of Bloodbrides, seeing as how they already have more attacks than normal Wyches, you gain more by reducing your enemy's attacks with the Shardnet and Impaler combo.

10. Dark Eldar troop choices tend to evaporate when someone so much as sneezes in their general direction, always run at least 3.

Keeping all that I've just said and the theme that you seem to be going for in mind, the unorthodox yet workable list you might want to pursue might look this at 2000 points:

Lelith
Wyches x8 w/ Shardnet x1, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix, Venom blade.
Raider FF, DL

Ancient Haemonculus w/ Liquifier, Venom blade.
Grotesques x4 w/ Liquifer
Raider FF, DL

Trueborne x5 w/ DL x2, Blaster x3
Venom w/ SC, NS

Trueborne x5 w/ DL x2, Blaster x3
Venom w/ SC, NS

Haemonculus w/ Liquifier, Venom blade.
Wracks x6 w/ Liquifier.
Venom w/ SC, NS

Haemonculus w/ Liquifier, Venom blade.
Wracks x6 w/ Liquifier.
Venom w/ SC, NS

Ravager w/ DL x3, NS, FF

Razorwing w/ DL x2, FF.
Razorwing w/ DL x2, FF.


While not designed as a competitive list, but it should still be plenty fun to play while also offering lots of tactical options to you and tough choices to your opponent regarding what to deal with first. The WWP and their unrealiability has been replaced by fast transports. The Brides haves been dropped in favour of Wyches thereby granting you one more troop choice. By the same token you've gained a legal amount of HQ choices and The Grotesques which can be considered a CC anti-vehicle/dreadnought unit that will also has a lot of character.

This is only a starting point but i'm hoping it serves to illustrate how to build a list that avoids the weaknesses of the codex (anti-vehicle) while working on the strengths (CC and FNP through Pain tokens).

Hope this helps.

I was under the imperssion that grotesques were too much of a liability to have, cant they turn on you?

And basically go with many small squads in venoms as my shooty large wych groups in raiders for stabby?

And dont thank me too much, my first army was space wolves lol.

They detonate if you get unlucky, unless you keep an IC with them. They hit every unit within reach and then die.

They are a fluffy unit more than an optimised one, though i've used them to good effect on occasion.

The short version of what was said earlier.

Many small units in Venoms: good.

Wyches as Tarpits in Raiders: good.

Grots and Haemo in Raiders: Good as long as Haemo lives otherwise iffy.

Trueborn in Venoms: Fan-f-n-tastic.

Razorwings with Lances and normal missiles: Good for the range but expensive.

Huskblades on anything but Archon with Soul Trap: sucks.

Huskblade on Archon with Soul Trap surrounded by Incubii on a Raider: OMG.


Hope this helps a bit more.

Edit:

And yes, Grotesques are fluffy but compared to Mandrakes they can still have their uses instead of being utterly useless point sinks.

Mandrakes are there to be painted pretty

Only use i've really found for them is as a fun painting project.

You're right.

So just like Pyrovores, they're just there to be proxied or painted.

I hereby stand corrected...

Still feel like Lelith should be replaced with Succubus w/ agoniser (90 pts saved) and the points used for something else. As stands, Lelith and her Wyches will shred, shred then be left standing naked next turn to shooting. The wych weapons are kinda personal preference but...Razorflail just sounds killy killy killy. That and it costs too much for my taste. Bit low on troops and dark lances too. Fun list to run though.

Anything is good compared to Mandrakes really.....Not helping the Grotesques case. I think they can be pretty devastating if pretty darned expensive.


EDIT: Oh, DLs on the blaster born. Meh. They're blaster born! Point sink IMO. With the points from dropping the DLs on these guys (Possible replace with another blaster) and Lelith, you almost gots a whole new unit.

Totally agree about this list's ineffiencies and fun factor.

I really feel that GW truly delivered one of the better codices yet here when it comes to playability. There are so many options that, while not the "best" points wise, still just beg to be tried out for sheer entertainment value, such as a a full units of Grots or Raider Harlequins.

These options won't win tournaments but that's beside the point. As a beer and pizza unit, they're awesome.

Barring those choices it's all about the Venom and Ravager Spam

Deathsadvocate wrote:I would start by reading DashofPepper and Thor665's articles on how to play DE cause if you are planning on playing "defensive" DE then you are playing "dead" DE. Seriously though these guys articles should be required reading for new players. They will teach you what is effective and how to build your army properly so you don't waste your time buying units that end up being worthless.

Must agree with this one. That is what I did before I started collecting. Those articles are very useful.

I just cant wait to get started on em, i was doin the "print preview" thing on army builder just to see what some of their stuff was and i saw EVERYTHING was poisoned lol. NERDCHUB. thats how it happened.

And whatever is not poisoned is most likely S8 AP2.

Yup, MEQ's hate us for a reason.

WEW! bought my codex and my first squad of warriors today!

Gratz!

Necrons are a fun army, even in the lean times of the last codex during 5th ed.

I'm sure you'll enjoy them


Edit ** Teach me not to multiwindow...**

I think he's talking about Kabalite Warriors, not Necron Warriors.

And yes, Necrons were still very fun in 5th. Most players were so convinced that the Internet was right regarding how much they sucked that whenever I trotted out my metallic horde, I would be greeted by peels of laughter. The Destroyer Lord with his retinue of 10 Destroyers and 6 Heavy supported by a second Lord with 10 Immortals usually made the laughs go down pretty quick.

Can't wait to update the old army but by the same token, I don't know that I'm ready for all the bandwagoners...

I didn't like the change in direction, so I sold my army and took up Chaos Daemons instead.

I may get back into them some day when they are no longer FOTM. I tend to like playing the older weaker codexes anyway, to give my tactical brain an airing...

I hear ya man. Hence why I still pulled them out of the mothballs and why I love playing with Tau and Nids... It keeps me on my toes.

The funny thing is that, when played right, neither of these 2 "gimped" or "old" codiices are actually "weak", they're just not as easy to use. This does not hurt their capabilities one bit.

My main opponent is a Nid player, and he regularly runs train on my Wolves, granted alot of that is cause i try and play them like they are in the fluff, turns out grey hunters cant take a Tyrant when hes got a whip and sword. lol.

You should see what Gargoyles supported by 6 Shrikes with Whips and a Boneswords can do power armour... Oh so fun.

Just as a matter of interest, why did you give up orks?

I like to shoot things, and orks couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

Go Incubi! Space Marines with power weapons and awesome Initiative! But -1 srength :(

S 4 with a pain token and on the charge, but yeah..

Still awesomesauce though..

S5 on the charge with two pain tokens.

Their Klaives are power weapons that give +1S. So they're Space Marines with better I, WS, and A. They have -1T


Your Razorwings will do well against 'Nids with their 4 missiles which will insta-gib gaunts. Also, venoms, venoms, venoms. Splinter Cannons make infantry cry. Especially lightly armored infantry. Might be a good idea to take two splinter cannons. Also, your mass of poisoned weapons will be really good for bringing down those monstrous creatures. As will dark lances and blaster born!

Just remember: Speed is your friend.

That they are..

Been a while since i've used mine. I was getting in a few last games with my 'Crons, and i normally run a Coven list

My regular guard opponent hates my razorwing... and my splinter cannons... and my wyches... guardsmen vs wyches in melee is pretty ugly business.