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JoTWW and anythign where you can snipe a specific unit out of a group with ranged... also remove from game bcause it makes paying the huge eternal warrior tax pretty useless

I think it's hilarious that so many people are unhappy with 5th. I think you're viewing 4th through rose-colored glasses. I am sure you did not like invincible holofield grav tanks and all of the rending ridiculousness that was out there...

And 3rd? Hello, Rhino rush! They should have just called that entire edition "Warhammer 40k: Rhino Rush FTW"

I think 5th is the most balanced edition so far. Sure, it has problems, but it's a lot better than the last two.

keezus wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

keezus wrote:The thing that wrecked 40k for me is the "assault what you shoot" rule. I have not enjoyed 40k since that rule was introduced in 4th Ed.

unfortunately I think you'll find yourself in the minority here, that was a much needed game balance change. With the basic equipment so many armies get now (e.g. universal krak grenades, BP/CCW, etc) it'd make them significantly more powerful than they were designed to be, while units that are decidedly mono-role are sorta putzed.

IMHO, that is poor game design. Not only does it shaft mono-role armies... but it also shafts elite armies to a point by artificially limiting the enemies they can engage a round. The only reason I can see for them to implement this is that the middle of the road MEQs were suffering and needed the playing field tilted in their favor.

Except if anything it was MEQ's that were able to make the most use out of it, it certainly wasn't a buff for SM armies when they changed that.

It means your MEQ unit can't rapidfire one infantry unit down and engage another in the same turn while a more shooting oriented army that may have units which are just as expensive but can only engage through shooting can only engage one.

There's such a thing as too much versatility. disallowing two different targets for shooting and assault still allows generalist units to use both avenues of attack, but prevents them from essentially doing twice as much damage as specialist units.

One will notice this particular restriction doesn't come up as a complaint too often.

3rd edition changes that erased the Eldar army from a game mechanics perspective.

I'm really not a fan of the "attitude" of the new GK fluff. Not only is it less engaging than the stories out of the old Daemonhunters Codex/Novels, it gives "haters" a lot of ammunition against my army.

I enjoy building, painting, and fielding a GK army, and it gets tiring hearing all the same crap over and over. Especially once people start with the "bad fluff = OP codex" nonsense.

Although I wasn't around when it happened, a close second would be the 4th Ed. CSM codex split/shift. CSM were always one of my favorite factions but they never seemed to perform as awesomely as I would have liked. Having perused the old 3.5 'dex I saw a lot of options that would have been much more fun to play than those in the relatively bland 4th-ed 'dex.

i) Necrons
ii) Tau
iii) Ubiquitous special characters

DarknessEternal wrote:3rd edition changes that erased the Eldar army from a game mechanics perspective.

To be fair, Eldar in 2E were stupid broken, certainly moreso than anything we've seen since the 3E reboot.

Robin Cruddance, Destroyer of Balance.

Vaktathi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:3rd edition changes that erased the Eldar army from a game mechanics perspective.

To be fair, Eldar in 2E were stupid broken, certainly moreso than anything we've seen since the 3E reboot.

It did not require the complete removal of their army.

My first complaint is the fact that Space Marines have too many army books to choose from, while Chaos Marines are lumped into a single book.

I would love to see Codex: Emperor's Children, or Codex: Thousand Sons instead of stuffing all of the Chaos Marines together. With all the creative minds at GW, you think they'd be able to come up with more diversity in a Chaos legion than a generic "Noise Marine" or "Plague Marine". If the Black Templars deserve their own book, then the Black Legion certainly deserves one as well.

My second complaint is that Games Workshop releases new editions of the game before completing an army book for each army. I think Games Workshop should release two books at the same time, but one for the "good" guys, and one for the "bad" guys. Ultramarines/Tyranids. Eldar/Dark Eldar. Orks/Imperial Guard, Grey Knights/Daemons, etc. While I understand that releasing two armies at once would make them compete for sales, I think there are enough people out there playing this game that it should balance out.

Finally, to balance out my minor complaints with a little positivity, I have to say I really love the number of plastic kits that are being released for each army. I used to be a pewter junkie, and wouldn't dream of fielding a plastic miniature, but I've certainly changed my mind, especially after the Dark Eldar army was released. The new plastics are so good, I don't even miss the pewter.

Zarryiosiad

The Black Legion? They're like the Ultramarines of the Chaos Legions, they don't need their own dedicated book.

I seriously dislike the near requirement to include the characters in a game. 2nd ed was like that.. every SW army had Ragnar, every Eldar had Eldrad....

Also the growing "treadhead" movement. Each new 'Dex has more tanks and vehicles. If I wanted to play a tank game I would.
The game has been steadily moving from infantry based to vehicles.
If I was that interested in tanks, I'd play Ogre.

Void__Dragon wrote:The fifth edition Necrons.

I wasn't in the hobby when the current Chaos codex came out, so this right here. It surpasses my distaste for Mat Ward's direction with the Grey Knights; before they were cool, but now I just dislike them. Unless the ROW Embargo counts.

DeffDred wrote:When Andy Chambers left

5th Edition

The loss ofour beloved "sexy" daemonettes

my thoughts exactly

heres too you andy come back please

The fact a Guardsman infantry squad costs as much as a Space Marine tactical squad. This means it's considerably cheaper to play MEQ than any other. Grey Knights are going to have an even shorter bill.

Why not base monetary cost on point cost? So it would cost roughly the same to build the same size army regardless of which army it is. Admittedly I play MEQ, but I really don't like seeing my friends paying out the nose for an army because it's going to cost them more to match my army size. People shouldn't be financially penalised for choosing a non-MEQ army.

The proliferation of Space Marine (especially loyalist) variant codices clogging up the release schedule for non-marine armies. Since I've been in the game, it's never been more flagrant than from late 4th to current 5th edition.

Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines with robust customisation options. That's all we need. Release minor variant rules in white dwarf or other official supplements. Done.

smudgethekat wrote:The fact a Guardsman infantry squad costs as much as a Space Marine tactical squad.

What codices are you looking at?

Money wise they cost the same. Not points wise.

One, the CSM codex getting beat with the nerf bat. The 3.5 chaos codex was what many of you are wishing for in a loyalist marine 'dex. One book that allowed you to play any legion you wanted with rich options.
Two, something I see anytime I watch a game at the store. Current armies field certain characters as default. You never see a Salamander army without Vulkan. Or an Ultramarine army without either Calgar or Tigurus. I remember when they were called SPECIAL characters and it required your opponent's permission to play them. We still use this as a house rule, no named characters in games under 2k points

Price hikes... I've only been playing a few years now, but still I've seen huge price changes in that small amount of time.

The lack of hugs.

Seriously. Everything's all, "OMG WE'RE GETTING INVADED!" this and, "CLEANSE, PURGE, KILL!" that. It's like no one in the galaxy is able to formulate a thought other than, "Him different. Me kill different," even when the different thing is on their side! There's not enough hugs going on in the galaxy, and too much gloomy doomy doooooooom!

That's why I made my custom Sisters of Battle Order. They're much more friendly and lovable and snuggly.

Edit: Thinking about it more, maybe I don't WANT to play Dark Millennium Online when it eventually comes out. It'll probably be all gloomy and doomy and there won't be any heroes and everyone will be a jerk!

The rise of mechanization.

The rise of special characters.

The www. was the worst thing to happen to the game.

Prior to this, if countless anonymous whiners wanted to vent their spleens, they had to do it amongst their gaming group - who would either put up or tell them to shut up.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:3rd edition changes that erased the Eldar army from a game mechanics perspective.

To be fair, Eldar in 2E were stupid broken, certainly moreso than anything we've seen since the 3E reboot.

It did not require the complete removal of their army.

What do you mean by 'removal' of their army? Not quite sure what you mean by that, they still certainly exist as a playable army.

Zarryiosiad wrote:My first complaint is the fact that Space Marines have too many army books to choose from, while Chaos Marines are lumped into a single book.

This.

I would love to see Codex: Emperor's Children, or Codex: Thousand Sons instead of stuffing all of the Chaos Marines together. With all the creative minds at GW, you think they'd be able to come up with more diversity in a Chaos legion than a generic "Noise Marine" or "Plague Marine". If the Black Templars deserve their own book, then the Black Legion certainly deserves one as well.

I'm going to have to disagree here though. I've always figured there should be an Elite choice for each god as well, but they don't need their own codices. A codex: Chaos Legions covering the Black Legion, and the mono-deity gods would do. The only Chaos Legion that really should get a codex from the operations perspective is the Alphas. They deserve it more than the Wolves and Angels for definite. Of course, if the Word Bearers were put in the Daemons codex, it might work too.

I don't like how with every new Marine codex that comes out, they need to make ever-more ridiculous units and equipment to justify the codex's existence. Blood Angels and Space Wolves could easily have operated within the Codex Space Marines.

The continued refusal of Games Workshop to recognise the Welsh national language.

What did they use Welsh for?

Vaktathi wrote:What do you mean by 'removal' of their army? Not quite sure what you mean by that, they still certainly exist as a playable army.

The background was changed. The game mechanics were changed. The playstyle of the army was changed.

Nothing exists from the army I started playing.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:What do you mean by 'removal' of their army? Not quite sure what you mean by that, they still certainly exist as a playable army.

The background was changed. The game mechanics were changed. The playstyle of the army was changed.

Nothing exists from the army I started playing.

I'm certain one could say that of every army from 2E to the current day. Game mechanics don't tend to persist over a complete reboot of the game, and many of the 2E mechanics that made Eldar so unique were flat out busted (e.g. 2E Warp Spider weapons) and needed to be changed. Of all the armies out there, Eldar fluff has probably changed the least next to armies like Tyranids, Space Marines and especially Chaos. The core of what makes Eldar what they are is still there, Speed, Specialization, and Psychic powers, they difference is that they aren't the only ones with those aspects anymore and codex creep has taken hold to dethrone them for the time being from some aspects.

And to be fair, you'd be hard pressed to find an army or army build from any faction that works as it did in 2E.

Pouncey wrote:The lack of hugs.

Seriously. Everything's all, "OMG WE'RE GETTING INVADED!" this and, "CLEANSE, PURGE, KILL!" that. It's like no one in the galaxy is able to formulate a thought other than, "Him different. Me kill different," even when the different thing is on their side! There's not enough hugs going on in the galaxy, and too much gloomy doomy doooooooom!

That's why I made my custom Sisters of Battle Order. They're much more friendly and lovable and snuggly.

Edit: Thinking about it more, maybe I don't WANT to play Dark Millennium Online when it eventually comes out. It'll probably be all gloomy and doomy and there won't be any heroes and everyone will be a jerk!

That should actually be a bigger impetus to play. A ray of light in a grim galaxy of perilous adventure (GGOPA). You and the Glee Marines going about, spreading the joyous word of the Emperor, bringing his light into the dark places of the galaxy, kicking the ass of evil wherever it may be found...