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Dark Eldar embody hedonism at it's apex. If a DE Archon decided to help Iyanden, it was because he decided on a whim that it would be entertaining/valuable. It has nothing to do with comradery. It was in his interest at the time, in some way or another. I.E., he thought their "necromancy" was funny, and the whole story implies he thought having to be saved by the DE would just be hilariously insulting to Iyanden.

To a ordered and tactical mind it wouldn't make much since to commit such a large force on a whim for kicks and giggles. But it's DE, and it's perfectly within character for them.

Craftworld Eldar are puritans in every since of the word. Among the influences for their archetype are the Puritans that settled America. Very crude and basic comparison would be in the total self denial of any pleasure to ensure spiritual purity. Course, in the CWE case this means protection from your soul getting eaten by Slannesh.

Do they work together. At least one book says so (forgotten which it was, but a CW had an agreement with DE to give them slaves to avoid attacks on them. Been several years and can't remember the book atm. 2 internets to whomever remembers the title), but it's not likely a very frequent event. Whenever this "collaboration" does occur, whatever the level of help, it's not a friendly and mutualistic relationship. It's much more a gamble, with both sides trying to make sure they're the one who gets screwed least in the deal.

I'm still not entirely sure how Harlequins fit into it. Harlie's relationship with the CW Eldar is straight forward enough: to keep alive traditions and help brace them against the call of chaos. While I can certainly see DE wanting to see a Harlequin dance for the enjoyment of the experience, what I can't work out is what the Harlequins get out of it. The Harlequins are primarily concerned with the fight against chaos, and that's something DE just plain have no interest in. DE don't wana get eaten by Slannesh, but certainly don't give a crap about what Slannesh does outside of what immediately effects them.

Dash2021 wrote:Very crude and basic comparison would be in the total self denial of any pleasure to ensure spiritual purity.

No, it's not.

Craftworlders don't deny themselves pleasure, or anything like that. What they do is limit the exposure that they get as a means of preventing themselves from becoming trapped. Everything has a potential Path. So craftworlders have the opportunity to engage in pretty much any and all activities sooner or later. The important thing is that the Path system limits how far into the activity the craftworlder can go.

A more apt comparison would be someone who has a glass of wine every day versus someone who binges all the time. The first person still enjoys the wine, but limits him or herself to avoid the problems that come from overconsumption (drunkeness, hangovers, addiction), while the second person ignores the consequences and goes all out.

Eumerin wrote:

Dash2021 wrote:Very crude and basic comparison would be in the total self denial of any pleasure to ensure spiritual purity.

No, it's not.

Craftworlders don't deny themselves pleasure, or anything like that. What they do is limit the exposure that they get as a means of preventing themselves from becoming trapped. Everything has a potential Path. So craftworlders have the opportunity to engage in pretty much any and all activities sooner or later. The important thing is that the Path system limits how far into the activity the craftworlder can go.

A more apt comparison would be someone who has a glass of wine every day versus someone who binges all the time. The first person still enjoys the wine, but limits him or herself to avoid the problems that come from overconsumption (drunkeness, hangovers, addiction), while the second person ignores the consequences and goes all out.

While we're tearing apart bad analogies, no they don't limit themselves to a glass of wine every day as opposed to drinking a whole bottle. They drink only Red wine or white wine, but never both at the same time. Exarchs get locked on paths (binges in your analogy).

Unnecessary dissection of rhetoric aside, the purpose of the paths is to rigidly allow the Eldar to experience a way of life without exposing them to their natural tendencies indulge in excess. While the path of an exarch is referred to as a trap and exarchs are said to be lost on their paths, obsession with a particular path is a small risk compared to the real danger the paths guard against: hedonism.

All that being said, I thought I'd taken out the part about pleasure in that sentence. The main point was about self denial to ensure purity. The Eldar most assuredly engage in pleasurable activities (art, music, etc.). But, hey, I did say it was a bad comparison.

latch66 wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Or you could do what my brother did, in his infinite lack of wisdom...

Walk into a crowded Atlanta bar on the anniversary of Ghettysburg (sp?), whistling yankee doodle dandy..

I grew up and spent most of my life in the South. That was not the most brilliant move ever pulled.
At least it was in Atlanta (which is fairly cosmopoliton) and not in some small town off the back roads.

Realistically, I can see the Eldar's point concerning the Govenor. Had I seen some fat, pompus guy wearing the soul of my Grandfather around his neck like as a decoration, it would upset me a bit too.

Yeah, haha, at least it wasn't outside the city. That would not have ended well.

He got a kicking, but managed to avoid a shallow grave, so yeah, he got lucky

Ascalam wrote:He got a kicking, but managed to avoid a shallow grave, so yeah, he got lucky

Lol could have been worse, specially if it was in Va. BTW pulling a spelling nazi move here but it's Gettysburg

Thanks

Never can seem to get that one right

You should see me trying to do Anteatum, I tried a project on it, but was forced to switch topics due to a complete lack of spelling

Ascalam wrote:

(i'm Irish enough to get away with this in the right bars, but it's not recommended for non-irish..

Youre 'Irish enough?' What does that even mean?

English born of irish parents, with a pretty hefty chunk of the family still in Ireland.. Ergo Irish enough

Sometimes and sometimes not. I've been in Irish pubs/bars where the troubles have been the main topic of conversation before, and trust me, there was NOTHING cartoonish about it.

Have you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*edit - thankyou for removing the comment that the Troubles are cartoonish *

Ascalam wrote:English born of irish parents, with a pretty hefty chunk of the family still in Ireland.. Ergo Irish enough

Sometimes and sometimes not. I've been in Irish pubs/bars where the troubles have been the main topic of conversation before, and trust me, there was NOTHING cartoonish about it.

Have you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*edit - thankyou for removing the comment that the Troubles are cartoonish *

The troubles definitely aren't cartoonish. My family is from Armagh, I'm well educated on what they are.

Your perception of Irish pubs however is. I just found your post a little humorous, insinuating that no matter what Irish bar you go into (in the world, mind you) some form of discussion about the troubles will be occurring. As if the Irish live to facilitate a perceived stereotype.

Now, there are certain places in Galway where you can get beaten for ordering a Guinness, but to extrapolate that across the world is just silly. Also, the "im irish enough" thing was pretty funny, as if you can walk into any tough Belfast hang out, start dishing out about the prods (or taigs, whatever side you sit on) and they'll look you over and go "Oh, thats cool, youre totally Irish enough."

Not quite what i meant, though i'm glad that you got a laugh out of it My point is that any culture with a divide (i used the Irish as i'm more familiar with that split than others) will trash-talk the other side, but an outsider had better not try to join in, as both sides are still Irish

Not all irish pubs are that way, though some quite definitely are. I haven't been in Belfast in a very long time, but when i was it was a bit too interesting for my health

If you'll look at the post you'll find that i said that the pub (whatever country you find it in) will likely have a leaning to one side or the other, not that you'll get your ass kicked in any irish bar in the world (though it's a likelyhood if you start mouthing off about the Irish ).

It's true that the 'other irish' won't be the only topic of conversation, and if that's what you read it as, then i aplogise for the poor wording, but WHEN they do, it's best not to join in

Seems more clear and reasonable. Hope my post didnt come off too confrontational.

So about the Eldar...

Las wrote:Seems more clear and reasonable. Hope my post didnt come off too confrontational.

Nah, we're good

The 'cartoonish' thing just pushed a couple of buttons is all

The Eldar, to me, seem the same way.

They'll kick off on each other occasionally (and do occasional unspeakable things to each other like the Incubi breaking soulstones to make tormentors- one of the few things i could see the CWE finding utterly unforgivable) but if a threat to the Eldar as a whole showed up i'd bet they'd team up to deal with it.

If nothing else, where are the Incubi supposed to ge ttheir shiny soulstones from if the Eldar bite it, the Grey Knights?

TheAngrySquig wrote:I know that they aren't exactly buddies, but are they like the Imperium and Chaos or is there still the fact that they're all Eldar?

OP, huh? Really? I'm sure they make dinner plans...

I always thought of them as mortal enemies, like the Dark and High Elves in fantasy, but maybe Im carrying on too much of a parallel.

They are not friend, but they occasionally tend to help each other.

Byte wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:I know that they aren't exactly buddies, but are they like the Imperium and Chaos or is there still the fact that they're all Eldar?

OP, huh? Really? I'm sure they make dinner plans...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here honestly.

forruner_mercy wrote:

Byte wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:I know that they aren't exactly buddies, but are they like the Imperium and Chaos or is there still the fact that they're all Eldar?

OP, huh? Really? I'm sure they make dinner plans...*

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here honestly.

*Insert sarcasm.

Las wrote:I always thought of them as mortal enemies, like the Dark and High Elves in fantasy, but maybe Im carrying on too much of a parallel.

There are some similar areas - both Dark Elves and Dark Eldar have the SM thing going and enjoy slaving / slavery but there is no real great schism / civil war - I think both sides really don't get why their "Cousins" do what they do and pity them. There are quotes along this line in both the odler and present Dark Eldar codexes. I expect it also grates on the Craftworld Edlar that the Dark Eldar seem to be thriving and expanding in their vampiric way........

Now thats not to say a Dark Eldar would not get a kick out of doing really icky things to an Eldar captive...........or making them do it to other Eldar etc etc.

Do you think CW Eldar warriors ever show up in the Wych Cult arenas

As a special treat yes

reminds me to get writing my slavemaster rules for my Soul Arena game

The problem is, anything the Dark Eldar will do to their Craftworld cousins, they'll do to their fellow Dark Eldar. So I really don't think they care too much but, of course, they consider the Eldar in general better than any other race in the Galaxy but they see their cousins a bit more foolish than their fellow Dark Eldar. They're all just extremely selfish.

Selfish?

TheAngrySquig wrote:Do you think CW Eldar warriors ever show up in the Wych Cult arenas

They'd need to be extremely skilled. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to put on much of a show. So it's unlikely imo unless the DE got their hands on an Exarch.

The whole "mask" thing that the non-Exarchs do might also put a crimp on craftworlders in the Dark Eldar arenas.

Shoot em full of combat drugs

Should mess up any self discipline routine if you use a high enough dosage

Yeah, can captured CWE become DE?

Ascalam wrote:Not that they have the monopoly on arrogance.

The IOM has them beat on that one

No they don't. The Imperium and Eldar are both supremely arrogant. The Eldar also consider the galaxy to be theirs by birthright. They are arrogant to the point of xenophobia but in the way that they disdain lesser races and wouldn't hesitate to kill them all if need be which is pretty much everyone in their opinion.

The IOM have eradicated how many 'lesser' xeno RACES again? And consider the entire fething galaxy their by divine right?

And how many lesse races have the Eldar race killed, tortured, used as pawns over the millions of years. I believe the Dark Eldar codex has mentions os stealing stars and thus killing millions of species.

Lobukia wrote:
Their extreme decadence led to their fall... the Craftworld Eldar have effectively purged that... while the Dark Eldar have ran with it.

Some Craftworlds struggle with this issue till.

Eumerin wrote:
They're not "cruel". They're indifferent. They don't care about you unless you can directly affect their safety or have settled on a Maiden World. And in the latter case, some craftworlds have even helped the settlers relocate.

They are indifferent and cruel. Their indifference is that they don't care about you unless you are about to do something taht affects them or they just want to have fun or they just want to use you as pawns.

Compare that with...
... the Orks will attack your world, kill everyone that resists, enslave everyone who doesn't, and either work the slaves to death or set them on fire. Because watching people run around while they're on fire is HILARIOUS!

And may drive species into extinction as well.

TheAngrySquig wrote:Yeah, can captured CWE become DE?

i dont know....wouldnt they more likely become a slave/wrack/dead-body?

i suppose it could happen if the CWE in question is quite powerful and an Archon is interested in them....otherwise they are gonna get violated by somting and then killed by somthing else probably.