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blaktoof wrote:Rule doesnt seem that unclear.

"Whilst a model is in base contact they count their initiative as 1 regardless of actual value"

Not the same as a models initiative is reduced to 1.

So regardless of what your initiative value is, its 1. Not reduced to 1 but counted as 1.

reducing to =/= count as

This issue is which wargear/power/ability goes first. If you apply the Coil first, the model's I is dropped to 1 then the Quicksilver kicks in setting the I to 10. And vice versa, QS first I is 10 then the Coil reduces it to 1. It just needs to be FAQ.

TGA - its fairly easy, as QS is applied at the start of the movement phase, when the libby casts it. So their I value is already set to 10 when they reach base contact.

Just look at the timing of the psychic powers.

What if they already in b2b? Like if it is cast in your opponent's turn?

Then, weirdly their I value would be raised to 10 - their I was dropped to 1 by Whip coil, which was before the start of the GK turn and therefore must be in place before you raise their I value to 10.

I think there is a distinct difference between "striking at n I" and your actual Initiative value. I'm not sure what Quicksilver says, but if it says "strikes at Initiative 10", then I don't think it matters what their Initiative value is.

puma713 wrote:I think there is a distinct difference between "striking at n I" and your actual Initiative value. I'm not sure what Quicksilver says, but if it says "strikes at Initiative 10", then I don't think it matters what their Initiative value is.

Nope, the unit IS initiative 10 for the rest of the turn is how Quicksilver is worded.

Hopefully when GW FAQs Necrons they will fix all the other FAQs, but until then you will have to go by the Tyranid one since it is the same wargear with same intent.

I would like to point out that the Halberd FAQ and the LW FAQ contradict each other. Lash whips say modifiers apply, but Halberds say that they don't.

Modifiers apply in general, Halberds specifically do not.

I know. that's why when someone tells me they're combination of Halberd and Psykout makes them stirke first, because the Lash Whip FAQ says mods apply, then I redirect them to the Halberd FAQ that says they don't, so we strike together.

I don't have a Tyranid Codex, but this is the best I could do:

GRAY KNIGHT CODEX: pg 25, Quicksilver: "This power can be used at the start of the Librarian's Movement Phase. [] That unit is Initiative 10 for the rest of the turn."

NECRON CODEX: pg 44, Whip Coils: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their Initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative."

TYRANID FAQ: "Q: If a model with Lash Whips is attacking a model with an Initiative-boosting rule/piece of wargear (e.g. Furious Charge, an Eldar Banshee Mask etc.), which order are the Initiatives modified?
A: The Lash Whips will reduce an enemy model’s initiative to 1 before any other modifiers are applied. So, a model with Furious Charge that assaults a Tyranid with Lash Whips will strike at Initiative 2, and an Eldar with a Banshee Mask will strike at Initiative 10 in the first round of assault."

Once again, it all comes down to timing. The Lash Whip FAQ specifically states it is applied before all other modifiers, so Quicksilver stays in effect. The Whip Coil rule specifically states that it is applied whist the model's are in base contact, period, regardless of when Quicksilver was cast, or having Furious Charge or Banshee Masks, etc.

Looks like the Wraiths will hit first. Enjoy it before its FAQed, fellas!

TYRANID CODEX: pg 83, Lash Whip: "Any enemy model in base contact with a Tyranid model with one or more lash whips counts their Initiative value as 1 until the end of the Assault phase, regardless of their actual Initiative value."

Ghenghis Jon wrote:I don't have a Tyranid Codex, but this is the best I could do:

GRAY KNIGHT CODEX: pg 25, Quicksilver: "This power can be used at the start of the Librarian's Movement Phase. [] That unit is Initiative 10 for the rest of the turn."

NECRON CODEX: pg 44, Whip Coils: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their Initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative."

TYRANID FAQ: "Q: If a model with Lash Whips is attacking a model with an Initiative-boosting rule/piece of wargear (e.g. Furious Charge, an Eldar Banshee Mask etc.), which order are the Initiatives modified?
A: The Lash Whips will reduce an enemy model’s initiative to 1 before any other modifiers are applied. So, a model with Furious Charge that assaults a Tyranid with Lash Whips will strike at Initiative 2, and an Eldar with a Banshee Mask will strike at Initiative 10 in the first round of assault."

Once again, it all comes down to timing. The Lash Whip FAQ specifically states it is applied before all other modifiers, so Quicksilver stays in effect. The Whip Coil rule specifically states that it is applied whist the model's are in base contact, period, regardless of when Quicksilver was cast, or having Furious Charge or Banshee Masks, etc.

Looks like the Wraiths will hit first. Enjoy it before its FAQed, fellas!

Lash Whip from the tyranid codex:

"Any enemy model that is in base contact with a Tyranid with one or more lash whips counts their initiative value as 1 until the end of the assault phase, regardless of their actual initiative value."

Damn, beat by happyjew :p

But yeah, worded EXACT same way as the whip coil...

However it's a nids faq, so it'll be diferent from the Crons ... lol

Sad but true...

I don't think there is going to be a FAQ nerfing Whip Coils. After having to FAQ the Lash Whip, and then writing a new rule worded exactly like Lash Whip, GW would have added the same stipulations of the FAQ in the Necron Codex to avoid having to do a FAQ later on. I am curious as to when the Lash Whip FAQ came out, before or after the Gray Knights codex, and how much, if any, role GKs played in the change? Maybe they realized (too late) that they didn't have to protect the GKs from the Lash Whip, and are allowing another Xenos to get an initiative boost. Does anybody have any recollection of GW reversing a FAQ?

Wouldn't it (until FAQ) essentially work like Demon Hammers because of the " they count their Initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative". Way I see it the wording is fairly clear it's just people are including the rules for lash whip. The name itself and the unit it attaches to are different and so are the wording of the rules ("until the end of assault phase" in lash whips), as such in context they are completely different things that have a similar effect. I play my grey knights I1 against it and if I loose 2 or 3 models to it so be it I still treat the rest of the crons like prison lovers.