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I'm rather confused as to why it's so hard to understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this discussion is going nowhere regardless of my efforts. Carry on gentlemen, I'll take my leave.

No one has said you are not entitled to an opinion, but this is a discussion forum. Your comments get discussed and sometimes challenged.

You can either defend your previous comment or retract it. But don't claim that people don't accept your right to an opinion.

It's not my fault you said something silly and indefensible.

kb305 wrote:Sanguinary Priest Link

What do you think this one is worth??? or would you guys strip it too? lol

That is a well painted Sanguinary priest, it has some beautiful detail on the purity seals, I like the green glow effect on the helmet, a good looking scenic base, and it is very clean and without any visible mold lines, but it has a powerfist.

Sanguinary priests are IC's and die really quickly in combat so that particular model is worth about $4 since priests with powerfists are useless in game.

For a display piece I can see spending $15 to $20 on that model, it is nice and detailed but the fact that it is worthless in game pretty much cuts its value down to almost nothing.

I'll weigh in on this one because I have some strong opinions concerning painted miniatures. For me, they are essentially an art form, and should be treated as such.

For instance, the Claplain that was linked has subtle highlights, excellent shading, some blending and no obvious visible mistakes. The metals are realistic, and the armor is shaded without obvious visible lines between layers, which is a very difficult thing to achieve. Someone who does not paint at a high level does not understand what it actually takes to paint a model to that level. You call it "clean but not amazing" and I call it near studio quality (which should not be mistaken for display quality, which is significantly higher). It's not a Jen Haley or an Ali McVey piece, but I don't think it would be out of place in the color section of a Codex.

The Sanguinary Priest on the other hand has some visible line highlights and a more striking variation in color. Visually it's more interesting but technically it's of a far lower quality. There is an obvious shine off the black-lining in the cracks and it appears to have been hit with satin varnish which is an amateur move.

Studio quality paintjobs can cost anywhere from $100-$500 depending on who the artist is, how large the model is, or how much freehand/detail is applied, and I have seen studio quality models with less detail or technique from GW than that model has. I would probably value it somewhere in the $150 range from a studio standpoint, but an average collector would likely not pay that much. Obviously the average forum goer values it at a far lower price.

The thing is, a commission painter with reasonable skill can and will charge $20-$25/hr for a reasonable paintjob, and assuming 5-6 hours for a clean paintjob with nothing fancy, that's $100-$150, which is about spot on. There is an awesome painter near where I live that prices in that range, though he usually charges a per-miniature price with a determined quality level, IE display quality for a single miniature in Terminator or Power armor with some freehand is usually in the $150-$200 range. I've been quoted $300-$500 for a similar miniature from Jen Haley, so single miniatures can and will go for a large quantity of money. This price usually includes cleaning, necessary sculpting work, minor modification/posing, basing and shipping, and I do not think it an unfair price for something that might take 15-20 hours to complete.

I've gotten a bit off track here, but I just don't think that most people these days appreciate the time investment and skill level needed to paint to a high quality, and so they value work of this kind far lower than it should actually be worth. If you paint all of your own models and are satisfied with them and will never purchase a model from a commission painter then good on you, but that does not mean those commission painters are robbing anyone, or the value of their work is not worth what they are charging. It's just not worth it to YOU.

Anyway, this concludes my rant.

Aldarionn wrote:I'll weigh in on this one because I have some strong opinions concerning painted miniatures. For me, they are essentially an art form, and should be treated as such.

For instance, the Claplain that was linked has subtle highlights, excellent shading, some blending and no obvious visible mistakes. The metals are realistic, and the armor is shaded without obvious visible lines between layers, which is a very difficult thing to achieve. Someone who does not paint at a high level does not understand what it actually takes to paint a model to that level. You call it "clean but not amazing" and I call it near studio quality (which should not be mistaken for display quality, which is significantly higher). It's not a Jen Haley or an Ali McVey piece, but I don't think it would be out of place in the color section of a Codex.

The Sanguinary Priest on the other hand has some visible line highlights and a more striking variation in color. Visually it's more interesting but technically it's of a far lower quality. There is an obvious shine off the black-lining in the cracks and it appears to have been hit with satin varnish which is an amateur move.

Studio quality paintjobs can cost anywhere from $100-$500 depending on who the artist is, how large the model is, or how much freehand/detail is applied, and I have seen studio quality models with less detail or technique from GW than that model has. I would probably value it somewhere in the $150 range from a studio standpoint, but an average collector would likely not pay that much. Obviously the average forum goer values it at a far lower price.

The thing is, a commission painter with reasonable skill can and will charge $20-$25/hr for a reasonable paintjob, and assuming 5-6 hours for a clean paintjob with nothing fancy, that's $100-$150, which is about spot on. There is an awesome painter near where I live that prices in that range, though he usually charges a per-miniature price with a determined quality level, IE display quality for a single miniature in Terminator or Power armor with some freehand is usually in the $150-$200 range. I've been quoted $300-$500 for a similar miniature from Jen Haley, so single miniatures can and will go for a large quantity of money. This price usually includes cleaning, necessary sculpting work, minor modification/posing, basing and shipping, and I do not think it an unfair price for something that might take 15-20 hours to complete.

I've gotten a bit off track here, but I just don't think that most people these days appreciate the time investment and skill level needed to paint to a high quality, and so they value work of this kind far lower than it should actually be worth. If you paint all of your own models and are satisfied with them and will never purchase a model from a commission painter then good on you, but that does not mean those commission painters are robbing anyone, or the value of their work is not worth what they are charging. It's just not worth it to YOU.

Anyway, this concludes my rant.

I understand your point, but, the fact is that something is worth what someone will pay for it. Period. There is no such thing as "undervalued", because the market determines what the value is. I basically agree that what the market is willing to pay for painted miniatures is generally not worth the time it takes to paint models. I'm a good painter, but I would NEVER do commission work because it's simply not worth my time. But that is up to the individual commission artist to determine.

I do beg to differ that this Chaplain is an exceptionally well painted model. It really isn't. I paint better than that, and I am not a pro by any means. I certainly wouldn't pay $90 + $10 shipping for it.

Aldarionn wrote:I'll weigh in on this one because I have some strong opinions concerning painted miniatures. For me, they are essentially an art form, and should be treated as such.

For instance, the Claplain that was linked has subtle highlights, excellent shading, some blending and no obvious visible mistakes. The metals are realistic, and the armor is shaded without obvious visible lines between layers, which is a very difficult thing to achieve. Someone who does not paint at a high level does not understand what it actually takes to paint a model to that level. You call it "clean but not amazing" and I call it near studio quality (which should not be mistaken for display quality, which is significantly higher). It's not a Jen Haley or an Ali McVey piece, but I don't think it would be out of place in the color section of a Codex.

The Sanguinary Priest on the other hand has some visible line highlights and a more striking variation in color. Visually it's more interesting but technically it's of a far lower quality. There is an obvious shine off the black-lining in the cracks and it appears to have been hit with satin varnish which is an amateur move.

Studio quality paintjobs can cost anywhere from $100-$500 depending on who the artist is, how large the model is, or how much freehand/detail is applied, and I have seen studio quality models with less detail or technique from GW than that model has. I would probably value it somewhere in the $150 range from a studio standpoint, but an average collector would likely not pay that much. Obviously the average forum goer values it at a far lower price.

The thing is, a commission painter with reasonable skill can and will charge $20-$25/hr for a reasonable paintjob, and assuming 5-6 hours for a clean paintjob with nothing fancy, that's $100-$150, which is about spot on. There is an awesome painter near where I live that prices in that range, though he usually charges a per-miniature price with a determined quality level, IE display quality for a single miniature in Terminator or Power armor with some freehand is usually in the $150-$200 range. I've been quoted $300-$500 for a similar miniature from Jen Haley, so single miniatures can and will go for a large quantity of money. This price usually includes cleaning, necessary sculpting work, minor modification/posing, basing and shipping, and I do not think it an unfair price for something that might take 15-20 hours to complete.

I've gotten a bit off track here, but I just don't think that most people these days appreciate the time investment and skill level needed to paint to a high quality, and so they value work of this kind far lower than it should actually be worth. If you paint all of your own models and are satisfied with them and will never purchase a model from a commission painter then good on you, but that does not mean those commission painters are robbing anyone, or the value of their work is not worth what they are charging. It's just not worth it to YOU.

Anyway, this concludes my rant.

you have got to be kidding me. you realize just his bad lighting and bad picture would create your "subtle highlights" and "excellent shading". the pic is small and poorly lit, you cant even make a proper judgement. subtle=less layers, less brightness, less pop, he has taken his highlighting to a much lower level, probably to save time or because he doesnt know how. for some, it's "excellent subtle blending because you cant see any transition between layers". lol. ya, because it doesnt have any layers.

looking at the pic again, it appears the picture was lit with a light hitting it top down. the shading you see on the helmet and the right arm is actually created by his light source? i dont know, the pic is so small it's very difficult to tell. and when paying 90 for a mini i would rather not guess.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SPACE-HULK-MASTER-PAINTED-BROTHER-ZAEL-/320788138071?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item4ab0768857

^ this is more the type of painting i think youre talking about. that chaplain is not it.

I would definitely pay $20 for it, but not much more. Even if studio paint jobs are expensive as heck, it is of little consequence to me. I am OCD about my SoB being painted, and I have run bad lists simple because my good list wasn't painted yet (I care less about my BA and Guard). However I am not good at painting, so there is some value in having very nice looking minis, but given that I still feel some level of pride in having miniatures that I painted (even if they are not of the same quality), meaning that any extra money I would throw at that model would be for reasons of convenience. I will not buy painted minis that are worse than my own admittedly low skill, unless I plan on repainting and the price has to be very low for me to want to whip out the brake fluid. Generally color scheme would be a factor, but given the usual manor in which chaplains are painted, one merely needs a shoulder pad of the appropriate chapter painted in the same manner (preferably by the same artist, but we'll let that slide)to fit it in.