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3.5 had its own issues. A pair of infiltrating Lords with wings, steed, speed, and every gift imaginable was an awfully annoying first turn charge unit. IW being the best gunline army in the game was also pretty bad. There's a lot of great stuff in that book but a reprint with a few points adjustments wouldn't be right.

I think learning the lessons of that book, both good and bad, and applying that to a modern codex structure is the best route, and probably the one GW's rolling with.

As long as it's better than the current Space Pirates... If they don't include proper daemons, they'll need to give the Word Bearers some way to power them up.

Brother SRM wrote:3.5 had its own issues. A pair of infiltrating Lords with wings, steed, speed, and every gift imaginable was an awfully annoying first turn charge unit. IW being the best gunline army in the game was also pretty bad. There's a lot of great stuff in that book but a reprint with a few points adjustments wouldn't be right.

I think learning the lessons of that book, both good and bad, and applying that to a modern codex structure is the best route, and probably the one GW's rolling with.

Haha, fair enough, I thought that was implied with updated options (i.e. a given piece not having full access to an armory), but yeah, no, no stupid lords: as fun as it was to blenderize something with those, it wasn't all that sportsmanlike.

I mostly meant in terms of broader options (mostly, specialized army lists, and access to real demons)

I support mono-theme armies and, maybe GW WILL GET OFF THEIR ENDLESS SPACE MARINE RIDDEN ACID TRIP AND GIVE (at least) CHAOS EQUAL ATTENTION!!!!!

that means, Legion codices, more UNIQUE stuff like tanks and troops. NOT just the endless copying of the SM codex.

You could make World Eaters the "Vanilla" codex, will also giving the rest their own different codices. If they did this they would have plenty of space for integrating the daemons into

the mainstream forces. Plus traitor guard and cultists could be given a place. (Finally, a use for my Plague Ogryen!)

Config2 wrote:I support mono-theme armies and, maybe GW WILL GET OFF THEIR ENDLESS SPACE MARINE RIDDEN ACID TRIP AND GIVE (at least) CHAOS EQUAL ATTENTION!!!!!

YEAH, THEY SHOULD STOP PAYING ATTENTION TO SPACE MARINES AND PAY ATTENTION TO SPACE MARINES INSTEAD!

Joking aside, I hope some LatD type elements do get added in. The hordes of freaks and mutants has always been an intriguing part of Chaos, and a fun one on the table.

I think the HS slot should be updated with something more original. Using SM vehicles is a little boring. And maybe a CSM land speeder? Just putting it out there.

ironhand45 wrote:I think the HS slot should be updated with something more original. Using SM vehicles is a little boring. And maybe a CSM land speeder? Just putting it out there.

"Using Space Marine vehicles is a little boring. By the way, they should have this other Space Marine vehicle."

Brother SRM wrote:

ironhand45 wrote:I think the HS slot should be updated with something more original. Using SM vehicles is a little boring. And maybe a CSM land speeder? Just putting it out there.

"Using Space Marine vehicles is a little boring. By the way, they should have this other Space Marine vehicle."

Woops. Okay, Land speeders never get boring for me. Vindicators and Predators, yes.

spiralingcadaver wrote:-legion themes (and a couple others, like red corsairs)-- they really weren't broken but did reward you for a limited list
-lost and the damned returning in some incarnation (why I left 40k for upwards of 5 years)
-real demons (fine if it's limited selection or worse rules, but no stupid generic ones.

That's about it, other than general game balance and some nice options.

This is the same reason why I left. I loved the LatD army codex and cried when they said it was not good anymore

Honestly, I would be happy if they took out chaos spawn, add some legion diviserty (like vanilla SM codex and special characters replacing Combat Tatics), give them an update similar to how DA Deathwing (pretty sure) got their wargear updated (I'm tired of seeing cooler looking wargear doing less than its loyalist counterpart), and give them either the Dreadclaw (Chaos drop pod) or some other transport (Daemonic like or something will some neat special rules like opening a portal to the Warp)

Interesting thread. I've not played much with my chaos marines since the marauder version came out, I really liked the flavor of 3.5 and I think if they kept to that flavor without the wackiness it would be best.

One page for each legion does not seem too much, I hope however they do not go the SC route. I hate using special characters in order to play my force.

As long as we are wishing, I wish they did not feel a need to wait for model releases to release codices. How great would it to have the Codex Chaos Undivided come out then the following month have the Codex Chaos Gods then the following month Codex Legion of the Damned?

They have the models already, get us excited for a change. Codices cost more than your average book of its size, so they must make money on them . . . ah but I dream too much.

I definitly agree with giving them some options like the warp portal. How many times in the fluff do entire hordes of CM come out of a portal to the warp? Maybe require a sacrifice or something, but allow all unit's deepstrike, but you must do so near certain models, and it'll cost you 1 model. It opens a portal to the warp, out come your troops on the turn _you_ choose, but at the cost of a model nearby.

Brother SRM wrote:3.5 had its own issues. A pair of infiltrating Lords with wings, steed, speed, and every gift imaginable was an awfully annoying first turn charge unit. IW being the best gunline army in the game was also pretty bad. There's a lot of great stuff in that book but a reprint with a few points adjustments wouldn't be right.

I think learning the lessons of that book, both good and bad, and applying that to a modern codex structure is the best route, and probably the one GW's rolling with.

Agreed on all points.

Back then a buddy and I did a lot of 2 on 2 big games with our usual group. I played Thousand Sons and he played Iron Warriors. Our lords were a nasty combo, especially with my Bedlam Staff.

S*** got absurd.

Nightlords.......
The chaos gifts
and as said many times already, Legions

I wish they would make the rules air-tight to not allow for monthly arguments as to how to interpret Warptime rerolls, Dreadnought LoS fire frenzy results, CSM Terminator RF/Relentless shooting . At least FAQ them ffs.

Give us back Chaos Gifts.
Modify the Crazed rule so the Dread is actually usuable.
Give us back all our Daemons.
More options for the DP besides just Mark and Spells (wings are mandatory already)
Make FA not a flaming pike of gak - give Raptors something to distinguish them, reasonably priced Bikers and Spawn that do something.

DOOMRIDER!

I don't think that the Legions should be split into different books, nor do I like the idea of relying on special characters. The latter of which is a very clunky and imposing mechanism and appears to be typically reserved for more 'off-the-wall' forces, like Wolfguard/Sanguinary Guard etc. that aren't as likely to appear in fluff or the general theme of the book.

I also agree with some of the sentiments (read: criticism) of the 3.5 Codex; it was prone to being too powerful and it's design really doesn't fit with GW's apparent design ethos, of allowing maximum customisation with little restrictions. The same could be said for Legion rules there too, but I must say I think Legion rules do need to be included to represent the different forces.

Finally, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't like my Fandex to be along the same lines as the next CSM Codex.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Also - JustDave has a PDF Fandex that should cover all your wishes...

Thank you sir!

I would like more of a presence from the non-original Horrus Traitor Legions.

rockerbikie wrote:I would like more of a presence from the non-original Horus Traitor Legions.

You mean renegade chapters and such? Because all of the Legions that turned traitor apart from the Thousand Sons rebelled with Horus.

Durza wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:I would like more of a presence from the non-original Horus Traitor Legions.

You mean renegade chapters and such? Because all of the Legions that turned traitor apart from the Thousand Sons rebelled with Horus.

Yes. I believe there is not much of a pressence of renegade chapters. Also, I would like to see a Fallen Dark Angel character.

For all the effort and work that went into that fandex, it still suffers from one of the worst mistakes in Codex design.. it needlessly limits diversity (or taxes it via upgrades, marks, characters, etcc that you pay for) and promotes the monotonic spam of limited selection from from the Codex.

The game, as it is now (6th may change that), suffers from an overabundance of armies that rely of redunancy and target saturation of similar units. The efforts to promote "synergy-"armies in recent books seems to recognize that these are (a) a problem and (b) not terribly exciting to play and play against. Building a synergy-army and making it work is, per se, a handicap to your "competitiveness". The design should thus work from the inverse; i.e. start with the full (but perhaps limited in numbers) access to all units and all gods, and penalize/character-or-mark-"tax" army-builds that forgo synergy in favour of "mono-builds".

Zweischneid wrote:For all the effort and work that went into that fandex, it still suffers from one of the worst mistakes in Codex design.. it needlessly limits diversity (or taxes it via upgrades, marks, characters, etcc that you pay for) and promotes the monotonic spam of limited selection from from the Codex.

Ooooh, that's a very interesting and seemingly viable comment. Could you please explain it a bit more?*

*it may be worth taking it over to the fandex's actual thread (link in my signature) for on-topicness though.

Just Dave wrote:
Ooooh, that's a very interesting and seemingly viable comment. Could you please explain it a bit more?*

*it may be worth taking it over to the fandex's actual thread (link in my signature) for on-topicness though.

Sure, I'll write down a bit more detail on it in your thread. Not gonna work today though.

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

rockerbikie wrote:

Durza wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:I would like more of a presence from the non-original Horus Traitor Legions.

You mean renegade chapters and such? Because all of the Legions that turned traitor apart from the Thousand Sons rebelled with Horus.

Yes. I believe there is not much of a pressence of renegade chapters. Also, I would like to see a Fallen Dark Angel character.

Cypher not good enough? Who knows, if the DA HH series ends the way I think it will, Zahariel could end up pretty powerful.

In the old fluff, renegade chapters usually got absorbed into a Legion or the Red Corsairs. Since this doesn't seem to be the case any more, it would make sense to have rules for them as well.

Then again, Renegades can be well represented within the Space Marine Codex.
I'm not sure Fallen Angels are a big enough faction to warrant another special character (as it were), for one thing, they're not a very common sight it seems.

Tentacles

Might as well get in before the crowd and say the new Chaos codex will be totally OP and game breaking. :trollface:

The return of cultists might be nice.

Just Dave wrote:Then again, Renegades can be well represented within the Space Marine Codex.
I'm not sure Fallen Angels are a big enough faction to warrant another special character (as it were), for one thing, they're not a very common sight it seems.

I disagree. Most loyalist Space Marine box emphasise a strong, uniform theme. As such, it is more likely that the Legions/30K armies as uniform armies can best be represented with Loyalist books (Khorne Wolves, Night Lord Angels, etc..).

It is the conglomerate nature of Renegade armies that doesn't work well with Loyalist Marines. Think of your iconic Red Corsairs. You'd need a unit of Space Wolves to represent traitors from the Wolf of Fenris, a few ancient Word Bearers from Huron's Heresy-era flag-ship of the time, some Plaque Marines from the Death Guard that pledged their cause to Hurons, some regular Marines from his own former Astral Claws, some Tzeentch/Dark Mechanicum units to illustrate the guys he made a pact with for resurrection/immortality, etc.. .

Same for Warriors of Aggannor, combining both original Night Lords and Word Bearers along with more recent traitors. Even Ahrimans exiled Prodigal Sons aren't well represented by a mono-Tzeentch/TS army. It's the multi-god, multi-legion, internal-antipathy nature of renegade alliances that needs unique rules to be on the table top.

If you just run a mono-theme army, paint your Ultramarines red instead of blue and replace "for the EMPEROR" with "for the BLOOD GOOD", not much tinkering with game-mechanics is really necessary.

I think Legions Terminators sould be put in.