Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It's nice to see Brother Coa's fanboyism completely and utterly demolished in this thread.

My 2 cents, it's a ridiculously dumb idea. It is completely out of the realm of possibility. No member of the Imperium of Mankind could ever reverse engineer Necron tech, not even the God Emperor himself.

It defies all manner of canon, rewrites numerous established paradigms, changes the tone and above all, everyone hates it.

Go for it, with my blessing.

Sigged if I may

Almost feels like someone hacked Brother Coa's account and is sending him up...

If you want some 'crons to be pro-Imperial, or pro-human, couldn't you just have a lord who decided, for whatever reason, to ally himself with the Imperium? Necrons have personality now, there's no reason one of them couldn't see an advantage to allying himself with Imperial forces. Of course, the Inquisition isn't going to be keen on it.

It has a similar plot device that Independance day had.

Jeff Guldblum "I just hope that the aliens use the same OS as we do....they do!"

Who writes an intergalatic computer virus?!

ZombieJoe wrote:It has a similar plot device that Independance day had.

Jeff Guldblum "I just hope that the aliens use the same OS as we do....they do!"

Who writes an intergalatic computer virus?!

Apparently Jeff Goldblum

Ratius wrote:

It defies all manner of canon, rewrites numerous established paradigms, changes the tone and above all, everyone hates it.

Go for it, with my blessing.

Sigged if I may

You may.

ZombieJoe wrote:It has a similar plot device that Independance day had.

Jeff Guldblum "I just hope that the aliens use the same OS as we do....they do!"

Who writes an intergalatic computer virus?!

Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich.

One possibility is that while the Necron mind is not a "program" per se, their mechanical bodies do require such programming to interpret their mental impulses and function accordingly. In which case, while it would still be a stretch, an AdMech might be able to tamper with those functions, getting jerky control of the body while the mind remains trapped and cut off from that body.

It depends on whether you see the Necrons as being actual robots or golems made of necrodermis, I guess.

The idea about a Necron Lord offering a conditional alliance or other agreement resulting in his warriors fighting for Imperials would work, too.

King Pariah wrote:

ZombieJoe wrote:It has a similar plot device that Independance day had.

Jeff Guldblum "I just hope that the aliens use the same OS as we do....they do!"

Who writes an intergalatic computer virus?!

Apparently Jeff Goldblum

A chilling argument against universal adoption.

Or possibly a cheap knock off of H. G. Wells' idea, modernised in a ham-fisted way. Who can say?

Wow, so much reply...thank you all for your comments and I must say tyhat even if many of you disagree with this story - GW said that every Tomb World can have it's story since there are millions of them.

Since we already saw that Necrons who lost their "sense" can be reprogrammed to serve another purpose AM reprogramming can be a possibility. I am also sad because a ton of you think that a race that can decifer alien languges and theiur tech, build stuff like teleporters and Titans and Battleships can do a simple programming. Their language is basically a binar language on witch our computer systems and program language are based so I may say that if they excel in one thing that must be programming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:
Also Coa's first language isn't English so attacking his spellng and grammar is kind of a cruel move...

Thank you purplefood, aldo English is somewhat easy to me I am mixing my and English grammar when writing. And since those 2 grammars are like comparing French and Chinese, things may be logical to me but totally different for you.
Thanks again for understanding.

Brother Coa wrote:Wow, so much reply...thank you all for your comments and I must say tyhat even if many of you disagree with this story - GW said that every Tomb World can have it's story since there are millions of them.

Since we already saw that Necrons who lost their "sense" can be reprogrammed to serve another purpose AM reprogramming can be a possibility. I am also sad because a ton of you think that a race that can decifer alien languges and theiur tech, build stuff like teleporters and Titans and Battleships can do a simple programming. Their language is basically a binar language on witch our computer systems and program language are based so I may say that if they excel in one thing that must be programming.

Their language is no way binary. The glyphs should show that. The only case of them using binary was when communicating with the Imperium in Damnos. Those Necrons who were reprogrammed were reprogrammed by a Necron supercomputer, millions of years more advanced than the stagnant AM technology. Fluff wise, Titans and Battleships and Teleporters are less advanced than a Necron construct, because even a basic warrior has a more advanced teleporter built in than that available to Astartes terminators.

The AM has frequently been baffled by the workings of Necron technology, even going so far as to say Necron guns are an impossibility. If they can't understand Necron weaponry, I highly doubt they could understand the engrams of Necron living metal bodies. Even the Necrons are incapable of properly repairing damaged engrams, AM don't stand a chance of reprogramming them.

Brother Coa wrote:I am also sad because a ton of you think that a race that can decifer alien languges and theiur tech, build stuff like teleporters and Titans and Battleships can do a simple programming. Their language is basically a binar language on witch our computer systems and program language are based so I may say that if they excel in one thing that must be programming.

Now I will never tell you you can't do anything, there is room for everything in 40k, and no piece of canon is iron clad. You want your scout seargent to overthrow khorn, nurgle, tzenich, and marry slaanesh as the new king of chaos, I would never say no.

That being said, I'm assuming you are posting for feedback because you want feedback. So here's the feedback (note this is mostly just musings in the hopes of edifying people about some of their assumptions about technology):
So...I'm a Software Engineer by profession...and you are just way off here. Firstly, we have no reason to believe they use binary, and in my professional opinion, I really doubt they would. At their tech level some sort of quantum bit would make much more sense, if they are even still functioning on the bit paradigm, which is by no means certain.

Secondly, even if they are using binary, binary isn't a language, it's a representation. No one "understands" binary anymore than anyone "understands" sound, or alphabet. Binary is just a possible way to represent a way to express logical constructs, e.g. a programming language. It is used so often in our worlds a) because it is easy to represent in electronics and b) because it works well with simple AND, OR, and NOT operations, which are also easy to represent in electronics.

It isn't always possible to "reverse engineer" a language. Egyptian, for example, was considered lost until the Rosetta stone was found providing a translation to already known languages. And Egyption was still operating off of a human mindset with (reletively modern) human assumptions. The language of an alien race millions of years more advanced than us may very well be unparsable. And computer languages are an order of magnitude more difficult to comprehend then physical languages. The fact that the Necrons don't even fully understand, and cannot repair their OWN programming goes to show how advanced it likely is.

Now Star Trek has given people the wrong impression of "reverse engineering". For the most part you can only reverse engineer something you are already fairly close to being able to develop, and even that can be very difficult. Imagine if a greek philospher or roman engineer found a computer. Could he reverse engineer it? No because there are just too many technological disciplines and cultural assumptions he lacks. Even someone from the 1800s would be unable to reverse engineer a computer. It would require someone with 1950's or 60's levels of technology.

That being said, reverse engineering is a common enough sci fi trope it is hard to fault anyone for using it. I'm just trying to illustrate that being good at programming (which the ad-mech isn't, they mostly use brains for their computers for exactly this reason) has nothing to do with being able to reprogram an advanced alien races robotic bodies.

Really, it just has the air of 'mary sue', of 'fanboy'. It violates a lot of established fluff at a very deep level, goes against the themes of 2 races, unfairly favors a faction that is already unfairly favored, downplays the strengths of another faction, and flies in the face of a lot of some fairly basic logic, so you are going to catch a lot of flak for that. That doesn't mean you can't do it.

Typically you can overcome things like this with excellent writing and modeling. Anything can be accepted if it is well written, stuff like this just raises the bar. Admittedly you may have raised the bar to empire state levels, but if you can do it you may well be the next William Shakespear.

Mostly, just have fun with it, but know you are going to get a lot of sideways glances and negative comments.

Thank you riplikash, your points really made some things clear.

You were right exept one thing:http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lingua-technis#.TsVu8T0r27s they do use binary representation as hidden language.

And AM knows more then we are introduced with. Remember that they keep all of their knowledge a secret, and we only know small percent of what they truly know.

But you made your point, those 2 factions are meant to be enemies and not allies.

P.S. I am ashamed, I am student of Computer Science 3'rd year and I coudn't remember some basic things for binary code

Brother Coa wrote:Tom World <snip> So what do you think?

Sounds like an amusement park in a National Lampoon movie.

Necrons have a habit of killing their gods and breaking them up into pieces and placed in pocket dimensions.

This would be a good thing to happen to the Emperor.


Reverse engineering is a way over used trope.

Think about a mobile phone - if we went back to the 1980s when mobiles were first being produced and were the size of briefcases and gave them a HTC desire, could they replicate it? Highly doubtful due to the massive amount of research, time and so on and so forth. Hell even the materials used in such a device would be difficult to understand and close to impossible to replicate with tech of the time (EG: Gorilla glass).

Just to understand the necrons spoken/written language would take several lifetimes - and programming languages are barely even recognisable as english to non-programmers/computer geeks as it is.

I am sorry to say, but this is a terrible idea. If you want you could build a "iron men" army, and have them return to serve mankind once more. How open mankind would be to the cause of the downfall of the golden age is questionable however.

Brother Coa wrote:Wow, so much reply...thank you all for your comments and I must say tyhat even if many of you disagree with this story - GW said that every Tomb World can have it's story since there are millions of them.

Indeed, but you should actually stick your Tomb World in the 40k universe and the basic fluff of it. Your current fluff is in your own, twisted "40k" universe. Go with it if you really must, but do not be surprised when you get a gakload of refused games and negative comments.

Brother Coa wrote:GW said that every Tomb World can have it's story since there are millions of them.

GW said that every tomb world can have a different story, but not ANY story.
Don't GOTO-ize the 40k background please, or we make use of our 2++ WARD-save

G. Whitenbeard wrote:Sounds pretty flaky to me.

Perhaps it would be better if the Necron Warriors bowed to the Tech Priests right before they hacked them to pieces with their flayer axes.

now that's good fluff.

op: reprogramming a necron is way beyond those guys skills. admittedly it is interesting but i do not encourage necron hijacking stories

Instead of just saying NO!!!, I'm gonna try to help you out:

Go the other way


- Say your Necron Lord is a sneaky backstabber strategist of sorts.
- Ad-Mech retinue discovers tomb.
- Ad-Mech bows down to Intelligent Necron Lord only to be killed swiftly by him.
- Necron Lord uses the Ad-Mech's body (they are mostly mechanic so he can work with it) to create inflitrators
- Ad-Mech looking Necron agents slowly infiltrate local Ad-Mech hierarchy over a century or so.
- Local Ad-Mech cult is transformed into viewing the Necrons as something akin to Angels of the Machine God.
- Necron Lord shares some minor technologies to further spread his Necron-Ad-Mech to other forge worlds and keep tabs on the Imperium waiting for the time to strike.


There, you have Necrons and Ad-Mech working somewhat together with no huge lore-destruction.

Ad Mech don't really build any of the stuff the IoM uses, it's just a reliance on STC's really, which they did not make in the first place

Dakkadood wrote:Instead of just saying NO!!!, I'm gonna try to help you out:

Go the other way


- Say your Necron Lord is a sneaky backstabber strategist of sorts.
- Ad-Mech retinue discovers tomb.
- Ad-Mech bows down to Intelligent Necron Lord only to be killed swiftly by him.
- Necron Lord uses the Ad-Mech's body (they are mostly mechanic so he can work with it) to create inflitrators
- Ad-Mech looking Necron agents slowly infiltrate local Ad-Mech hierarchy over a century or so.
- Local Ad-Mech cult is transformed into viewing the Necrons as something akin to Angels of the Machine God.
- Necron Lord shares some minor technologies to further spread his Necron-Ad-Mech to other forge worlds and keep tabs on the Imperium waiting for the time to strike.


There, you have Necrons and Ad-Mech working somewhat together with no huge lore-destruction.

I don't think that he wants Necrons to be in charge. He is in IMPERIUM YEAH! Group.

No.

I think something along the lines of the command link broke and somehow a Deceiver shard was freed in the process and seen opportunity to re take control with this failure would be much more exciting. maybe his new goals would be to regain his other shards to remake himself whole again?


hey you know what. forget that I think I like this story for my own Necrons heheheheh

Necrons, with a pre-programmed hard on for the throne...
God allmighty i hate it... i really really do.

Kroothawk wrote:Draigo on the other hand could reprogram a Necron Tomb with a swiss army knife in his cigarette break, with a hand bound to his back, after training a Tyranid hive to fetch the stick and follow simple commands of course

If you want Necrons in the Imperium, this is the most believable course of action based on current codex fluff since Draigo can do no wrong. (Also would match the silver theme)

If it's just a simple matter to you to ally them, then yes, either Blood Angels or a "crazed" overlord with some sympathetic tendencies to humans would be a good second choice.

If neither appeals to you, then I would recommend a slight twist to the background. The Inquisitor, since he seems teamed up with the AM, has a good friend from Mars who knows a secret about a certain "dragon" trapped there. He gets in touch and with his friends help, they go in to the Tomb World, but instead of reprogramming or reverse engineering, they find the Master Control Program in a reset mode, awaiting new commands. Or something along those lines.

I'm not a big fan of this, but as also has been mentioned, it's your universe to play in as well.

If even one tomb world gave the mechanicus access to their tech it would literally change the entire 40k setting as the mechanicus would be changing all the imperial tech.

Also, you can't reprogram sentient creatures, just because they have metal bodies.

It's your fluff Coa, if it makes you satisfied at the end of the day then who cares what anyone says dude. Personally, I can't see it happening with the Old Necrons, but the new Necrons seem to be way more accident prone with aging technology, so I'd say yeah, it could happen.

Coolyo294 wrote:No.

And there he is

im2randomghgh wrote:
Also, you can't reprogram sentient creatures, just because they have metal bodies.

It happened in New Necron codex. Tomb Msater Control computer took control over non-sentient Necron bodies. Then went to the next tomb world and did it again and again...
it is also stated they did that the same to the living creatures.... Borg of 41'st millennium.

Brother Coa wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Also, you can't reprogram sentient creatures, just because they have metal bodies.

It happened in New Necron codex. Tomb Msater Control computer took control over non-sentient Necron bodies. Then went to the next tomb world and did it again and again...
it is also stated they did that the same to the living creatures.... Borg of 41'st millennium.

yes a tomb world did it. does not mean that a tech priest with no prior knowledge can do the same. god your dense...

either accept that your theory is completely absurd or contend yourself with the fact that you dont need the nets approval to use your fanboy dream for your own steamy bedtime business.

Brother Coa wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Also, you can't reprogram sentient creatures, just because they have metal bodies.

It happened in New Necron codex. Tomb Msater Control computer took control over non-sentient Necron bodies. Then went to the next tomb world and did it again and again...
it is also stated they did that the same to the living creatures.... Borg of 41'st millennium.

I think you may have missed the part where the entity that actually took control over these non-sapient Necrons was a highly advanced Necron piece of technology. Your average Tech-priest is not going to be able to re-program a bunch of Necrons, because he wont understand a thing about them. The Mechanicus barely holds on to the vestiges of their own technology, let alone being able to grasp the technology of a race as advanced as the Necrons. So no, it can't happen.