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This is getting off topic peoples. Be careful.

bombboy1252 wrote:

NL_Cirrus wrote:So far all I've heard seems to indicate the New'cons' codex is a piece of gak. No Pariahs, Immortals being demoted to Troops, 'Liths that are vulnerable to Just-a-bout everything, Stupid looking new vehicles, AND terrible fluff.

I think I'll just stick to the old 'dex where things make sense and I can use the 'lith for what it was made for.

You mean be ignored, and have your warriors targeted so you can be phased out by turn 3....................

There is no phase-out in 5th edition.

Unless you're playing with the older codex. As, someone suggested as a way to avoid changes in the codex.

ANYWAY! who thinks they should be brought back?

lion_el_johnson wrote:ANYWAY! who thinks they should be brought back?

Only a few.

lion_el_johnson wrote:ANYWAY! who thinks they should be brought back?

Considering the New goals of the Necrons is apotheosis and the restoration of the Dynasties to their full glory again, I don't think they should.

Just think of the Pariahs as failed apotheosis experiments.

Well, they do not exists anymore because Ward destroyed the whole race and replaced them with Tomb Kings in space. Ask him, maybe they are busy engaging in that silly war for power among each other or maybe thy can be found polishing the Blood Angels' boots on Baal. Judging by the quality of his fluff, that could actually make sense.

On a more serious note, they are replaced with Lynchguard and Praetorians. Which changes little, to be honest.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, they do not exists anymore because Ward destroyed the whole race and replaced them with Tomb Kings in space. Ask him, maybe they are busy engaging in that silly war for power among each other or maybe thy can be found polishing the Blood Angels' boots on Baal. Judging by the quality of his fluff, that could actually make sense.

.

pretre wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, they do not exists anymore because Ward destroyed the whole race and replaced them with Tomb Kings in space. Ask him, maybe they are busy engaging in that silly war for power among each other or maybe thy can be found polishing the Blood Angels' boots on Baal. Judging by the quality of his fluff, that could actually make sense.

.

Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

pretre wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, they do not exists anymore because Ward destroyed the whole race and replaced them with Tomb Kings in space. Ask him, maybe they are busy engaging in that silly war for power among each other or maybe thy can be found polishing the Blood Angels' boots on Baal. Judging by the quality of his fluff, that could actually make sense.

.

Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

If you mean 'actually their background in a nutshell bent to fit my twisted Ward hate agenda', then yes, I completely believe it.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

pretre wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, they do not exists anymore because Ward destroyed the whole race and replaced them with Tomb Kings in space. Ask him, maybe they are busy engaging in that silly war for power among each other or maybe thy can be found polishing the Blood Angels' boots on Baal. Judging by the quality of his fluff, that could actually make sense.

.

Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

No it's not, and it's really stupid to even say something as moronic as that.

Sasori wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

pretre wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, they do not exists anymore because Ward destroyed the whole race and replaced them with Tomb Kings in space. Ask him, maybe they are busy engaging in that silly war for power among each other or maybe thy can be found polishing the Blood Angels' boots on Baal. Judging by the quality of his fluff, that could actually make sense.

.

Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

No it's not, and it's really stupid to even say something as moronic as that.

Let's see. They were menacing soulless automatons in the past. Now they are just like everyone else, trying to reach the clouds, dreaming to build up their empires again. Just like the Eldar and the Imperium.

I intended that as a joke, as I said in the very next sentence: On a more serious note... Next time, read the whole post before you start bashing people around.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

pretre wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, they do not exists anymore because Ward destroyed the whole race and replaced them with Tomb Kings in space. Ask him, maybe they are busy engaging in that silly war for power among each other or maybe thy can be found polishing the Blood Angels' boots on Baal. Judging by the quality of his fluff, that could actually make sense.

.

Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

No it's not, and it's really stupid to even say something as moronic as that.

Let's see. They were menacing soulless automatons in the past. Now they are just like everyone else, trying to reach the clouds, dreaming to build up their empires again. Just like the Eldar and the Imperium.

I intended that as a joke, as I said in the very next sentence: On a more serious note... Next time, read the whole post before you start bashing people around.

And then you said

Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

So, perhaps remember what you type next time.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

No it's not, and it's really stupid to even say something as moronic as that.

Let's see. They were menacing soulless automatons in the past. Now they are just like everyone else, trying to reach the clouds, dreaming to build up their empires again. Just like the Eldar and the Imperium.

I intended that as a joke, as I said in the very next sentence: On a more serious note...

Read Fall of Damnos and the 5th Ed Rulebook. Ward didn't change the fluff for Crons; he continued it. And they are still soulless automatons. That's part of the new fluff as well. The C'Tan took their souls in exchange for eternal life. (P7, third paragraph. Newcron codex)

Sasori wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

pretre wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, they do not exists anymore because Ward destroyed the whole race and replaced them with Tomb Kings in space. Ask him, maybe they are busy engaging in that silly war for power among each other or maybe thy can be found polishing the Blood Angels' boots on Baal. Judging by the quality of his fluff, that could actually make sense.

.

Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

No it's not, and it's really stupid to even say something as moronic as that.

Let's see. They were menacing soulless automatons in the past. Now they are just like everyone else, trying to reach the clouds, dreaming to build up their empires again. Just like the Eldar and the Imperium.

I intended that as a joke, as I said in the very next sentence: On a more serious note... Next time, read the whole post before you start bashing people around.

And then you said

Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

So, perhaps remember what you type next time.

I intended that as a joke also, but now that you took it seriously, it does not really matter anymore.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Well, believe it or not, that is actually their background in a nutshell.

No it's not, and it's really stupid to even say something as moronic as that.

Let's see. They were menacing soulless automatons in the past. Now they are just like everyone else, trying to reach the clouds, dreaming to build up their empires again. Just like the Eldar and the Imperium.

I intended that as a joke, as I said in the very next sentence: On a more serious note...

Read Fall of Damnos and the 5th Ed Rulebook. Ward didn't change the fluff for Crons; he continued it. And they are still soulless automatons. That's part of the new fluff as well. The C'Tan took their souls in exchange for eternal life. (P7, third paragraph. Newcron codex)

Yes, but I preferred it when all of them were soulless. The new fluff has made it so that the commanders and the higher ranking Necrons are sentient more or less. They even have named characters now. I see I was wrong. I have not read fall of Damnos yet. Thank you for enlightening me.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:I have not read fall of Damnos yet.

I really liked it. I recommend it. The UMs get their butt kicked by a waking tomb world. There's crypteks, a variety of scheming lords, a couple destroyer crazies, etc. It really ties things together and gives a good perspective on the new fluff. Written by Nick Kyme, btw.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Yes, but I preferred it when all of them were soulless.

They still are.......

The higher ranking necrons have always had sentience.....and the lower ranking ones never did......

bombboy1252 wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Yes, but I preferred it when all of them were soulless.

They still are.......

The higher ranking necrons have always had sentience.....and the lower ranking ones never did......

Yes , but in the past the Lords only had enough sentience to understand the orders of the C'tan. They still had no identity or personality. The Pariahs were similar to them. And the flayed ones only had a hint that they were once living beings with an organic body.

Now many Necrons have a sentience, like the Lynchguard who watched over the sleeping legions, the Immortals and of course the Lords who have very colorful personalities and attributes. Only the regular warriors do not have a soul.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Yes, but I preferred it when all of them were soulless.

They still are.......

The higher ranking necrons have always had sentience.....and the lower ranking ones never did......

Yes , but in the past the Lords only had enough sentience to understand the orders of the C'tan. They still had no identity or personality. The Pariahs were similar to them. And the flayed ones only had a hint that they were once living beings with an organic body.

Now many Necrons have a sentience, like the Lynchguard who watched over the sleeping legions, the Immortals and of course the Lords who have very colorful personalities and attributes. Only the regular warriors do not have a soul.

That's not true about the Lords, read the Apocalypse entry on Necron Lord levels that states/infers that they have differing levels of sentience and personality depending on their rank. Sounds a lot like the Newcrons, doesn't it? And that originated years before the new book.

Also, it's LYCHguard, no N. Reading that is as annoying as reading people insert a N into Cruddace's name or my wife saying eXpresso instead of eSpresso.

Platuan4th wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Yes, but I preferred it when all of them were soulless.

They still are.......

The higher ranking necrons have always had sentience.....and the lower ranking ones never did......

Yes , but in the past the Lords only had enough sentience to understand the orders of the C'tan. They still had no identity or personality. The Pariahs were similar to them. And the flayed ones only had a hint that they were once living beings with an organic body.

Now many Necrons have a sentience, like the Lynchguard who watched over the sleeping legions, the Immortals and of course the Lords who have very colorful personalities and attributes. Only the regular warriors do not have a soul.

That's not true about the Lords, read the Apocalypse entry on Necron Lord levels that states/infers that they have differing levels of sentience and personality depending on their rank. Sounds a lot like the Newcrons, doesn't it? And that originated years before the new book.

Also, it's LYCHguard, no N. Reading that is as annoying as reading people insert a N into Cruddace's name or my wife saying eXpresso instead of eSpresso.

He's describing Praetorians anyway.

Platuan4th wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Yes, but I preferred it when all of them were soulless.

They still are.......

The higher ranking necrons have always had sentience.....and the lower ranking ones never did......

Yes , but in the past the Lords only had enough sentience to understand the orders of the C'tan. They still had no identity or personality. The Pariahs were similar to them. And the flayed ones only had a hint that they were once living beings with an organic body.

Now many Necrons have a sentience, like the Lynchguard who watched over the sleeping legions, the Immortals and of course the Lords who have very colorful personalities and attributes. Only the regular warriors do not have a soul.

That's not true about the Lords, read the Apocalypse entry on Necron Lord levels that states/infers that they have differing levels of sentience depending on their rank. Sounds a lot like the Newcrons, doesn't it? And that originated years before the new book.

Also, it's LYCHguard, no N.

Yes, I know about that but since no named characters existed before the Silent King, one can assume their sentience is not that occurring. I never thought that they would be so sentient that they had a personality, because in the old book all of them were just slaves to the C'tan. Why would enslavers give their slaves too much independency? That could prove to be dangerous for them. I always imagined that the lesser Lords were little more than puppets used by the C'tan and that the greater lords were at least conscious about the fact that they were no longer alive.

Lychguard then, like a simple mistake like that would make a difference.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Yes, I know about that but since no named characters existed before the Silent King, one can assume their sentience is not that occurring.

The new codex represents the Necron race awoken, with its people active (including those with independant thought) , your assumption misses the point that most of the necron race was asleep and the old codex:necron was based on the necron that are controlled by the free C'tan fragments.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Yes, I know about that but since no named characters existed before the Silent King, one can assume their sentience is not that occurring.

The new codex represents the Necron race awoken, with its people active (including those with independant thought) , your assumption misses the point that most of the necron race was asleep and the old codex:necron was based on the necron that are controlled by the free C'tan fragments.

But still, that was the old fluff. It does not change the fact that no named characters existed before the new book. It is like saying the Tyranids hive fleets were a part of a a larger fleet, which just happened to disappear on its way.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Yes, I know about that but since no named characters existed before the Silent King, one can assume their sentience is not that occurring.

The new codex represents the Necron race awoken, with its people active (including those with independant thought) , your assumption misses the point that most of the necron race was asleep and the old codex:necron was based on the necron that are controlled by the free C'tan fragments.

But still, that was the old fluff. It does not change the fact that no named characters existed before the new book. It is like saying the Tyranids hive fleets were a part of a a larger fleet, which just happened to disappear on its way.

It easily explained away by the facts that:
a. any named characters were not awake yet for that codex.
b. any named character (or those with enough sentience) would not serve in the C'tan fragment's armies.

The main problem seems to be that you don't see the two codexes as separate points in time, as although the 40k universe only progresses slowly, it still progresses.

I also don't quiet get this point ''It is like saying the Tyranids hive fleets were a part of a a larger fleet, which just happened to disappear on its way.'' It is already believed that each of the hive fleet are just small parts of a much larger fleet outside the galaxy.

Nope, they retconned it. In the old codex, it was stated that they were indeed just small parts of a larger fleet, but Cruddace stated that the Hive fleets are already destroyed, and no "main force" exists other than those fleets already arrived.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Nope, they retconned it. In the old codex, it was stated that they were indeed just small parts of a larger fleet, but Cruddace stated that the Hive fleets are already destroyed, and no "main force" exists other than those fleets already arrived.

After a read through of my Codex 'Nids, I can find no such statement at all. Have a page number handy? Because I can find evidence of there being more fleets waiting in the intergalactic void quite handily on Pg7. And that was after only a quick read through.

Dytalus wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Nope, they retconned it. In the old codex, it was stated that they were indeed just small parts of a larger fleet, but Cruddace stated that the Hive fleets are already destroyed, and no "main force" exists other than those fleets already arrived.

After a read through of my Codex 'Nids, I can find no such statement at all. Have a page number handy? Because I can find evidence of there being more fleets waiting in the intergalactic void quite handily on Pg7. And that was after only a quick read through.

And more to the point how would Cruddance have this knowledge? it is well stated that the IoM have very little knowledge of space outside of the galaxy.

And who is Cruddance as I cannot find him on Lex or 40k wiki? You are gonna have a hard time backing up your statements.

Cruddace is the guy who wrote the Codex....

BluntmanDC wrote:
And more to the point how would Cruddance have this knowledge? it is well stated that the IoM have very little knowledge of space outside of the galaxy.

And who is Cruddance as I cannot find him on Lex or 40k wiki? You are gonna have a hard time backing up your statements.

Cruddace is a Codex writer. Presumably the one who wrote Codex: Tyranids.
And you can't argue the Necrons have changed in themselves.
Read through the old codex.
There's not a single hint to that the Necrons wouldn't be sentient. There's not much arguing for their sentience either, only the passage in the Apocalypse rulebook points to some kind of sentience. And that's still 'kind of'.
The only difference between the old and new fluff, except for C'tans being overthrown, is that we're now able to see the universe through the Necrons' eyes, whereas in the old book you saw it all through the Imperium's eye.
If the new book would have been written from an Imperium standpoint it still would've been pretty much the same. "The Necrons came here for no apparent reason and did this for no apparent reason...".
If anyone wants to complain, they should complain that the fluff is written from a Necron standpoint and not an Imperium one. Because there's no evidence the Necrons weren't sentient before.

Oh, and the Pariahs were removed due to the shift from "Codex: C'tan slaves" to "Codex: Necrons".