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Yah, there is no magic solution for your friends to stop being competitive, that's natural, but for friends who "don't care what the codex says" or don't use/know the correct rules, then, throw a rulebook at them (hopefully the hardcover)

How old are all of you?

PLAY A GAME THAT HAS GOOD RULES.

Not to be trollish, but my friends and I get along perfectly until we play 40K or Fantasy with their awful rules and poor mechanics.

Easiest way to solve this problem is play a better game. I recommend Battletech, personally.

Lay off the testosterone pills and play some games of Drunkhammer 40,000.

Get rulebooks for each of your friends.
Throw said rulebooks at said friends
Throw each persons codex at them
Tell them to read or GTFO
????
Profit

Aerethan wrote:This thread has inspired me to make drinking rules for WFB. A shot when you fail a ld test, miscast or misfire.

Had a night similar to this a while back... called it Beerhammer! Ended up with one guy passed out at 10PM, and 3 others that couldn't drive home. Breakfast the next morning was hilarious! I was hosting so didn't get to play, and don't remember the rules. I think the rules sort of morphed as the night went on. No aluminum foil/beer box/newspaper hats, though. Its only a good night of drinking if everyone ends up with hats.

Edit- OT: Instead of providing the answer, guide them through how to look it up themselves. Show them how you do it. When they have to look crap up all the time, they should stop making stuff up. Make a cheat sheet, too, to aid memory for folks who don't have things memorized. Some folks can memorize numbers really fast/easily, others cannot. Its not laziness, just differences.

shadowsnip wrote:Yep, we get to the point where we rage quit sometimes over stupid things. "MY NECRONS HAVE 3+ SAVE I DONT CARE IF THE NEW CODEX SAYS OTHERWISE!" "NOOO NOOO IT CAN"T SHOOT MORE THAN ONCE ASSSHOOLE!"

"IM NOT PLAYIN NEMORE YOU GUYS SUCK><"

i mean we get so angry it just sucks and it isn't fun any advice to me and my friends?

Maybe come back on when you've had your 12th birthdays.

Gentlemen,

I think this is a serious but altogether common problem. I have a group of friends who games a lot like this. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to this. Some people are just TOO competitive. Simulated war can create a warlike mindset.

So first, let me lay this out. Some people are not mature enough to play. And in short, if these problems happen every time, clearly it is not fun for anyone and something has to change. The question is: what?

So first, are your friends like this ALL the time or just during 40K? Some people do better with roleplaying games where at least players work as a team. Some people do better in a non-gaming environment (ie watching movies). If your friends are antagonistic in ALL environments then I'd say the game isn't really your problem.

Second question - do you set them off (try to be honest)? If you are blameless then there isn't much to do here. If you are a partner-in-crime to these activities, well, you can change the way you do things. Do you put people on the spot all the time? Do you lord over them with the rules? Are you antagonistic? Working on these things can help.

Taking Breaks: good idea! See if it works! Kind of like Halftime. Our group likes getting lunch together in the middle of a SAT game.

Is one particular player the source of all the trouble? If so, maybe you can talk to him seriously (one on one) when no one else is around. Explain the problem. Ask for his help to solve it. Come off as being on his side. If worst comes to worst you can kick him out of the group, but I really don't suggest it if you're only around for another 4 months.

Award Sportsmanship Points: This works if everyone looks up to you. Howabout a free unit you can deploy in Turn 5? Remove guyz from that unit 2 at a time for bad behaviour. It kind of lets everyone laugh at the bad behaviour a little more and maybe people would strive for a reward. On the other hand if this causes MORE problems, better drop it.

Shorter Games: Maybe play 500 pts instead of 2000. The games go quicker, so less time for tension to build.

Teams: Play 2 on 2. Maybe this way everyone has an ally/friend and will feel less threatened.

That's all my best advice. Unfortunately there's no 1-size-fits-all, but I hope this gets you all back on track to having fun again.

Solorg

Personally I did have a problem like this with a group of friends at my LGS and frankly only one of them still plays, and they were pretty much the same as the group you are having, so my advice is that I gradually tought them the basics of the rules (and did not include any special rules) then when they were confident enough with the basics I then went towards the advanced rules... this is where I think I went wrong as I think I did lord it over them with the advanced rules, then another group came and (they knew the rules) I started to play against them, resulting in the rest of the group clueless and intimidation by the rules (and made stuff up in there games).

So my lesson here was keep gradually give the rules even if it is the advanced ones, Thats all the advice I can give.

Also I am trying to gain a bit of retribution for myself for this incident as I try to help other people in my club in school out with the rules.

Solorg wrote:I think this is a serious but altogether common problem. I have a group of friends who games a lot like this. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to this. Some people are just TOO competitive. Simulated war can create a warlike mindset.

The word you're looking for is childish. No one depicted in this thread is being competitive.

Aerethan wrote:

snurl wrote:

Aerethan wrote:This thread has inspired me to make drinking rules for WFB. A shot when you fail a ld test, miscast or misfire.

Interesting.

Now you're talkin. Consider yourself challenged. Where U at?

Southern California! Challenge accepted!

BEERHAMMER! If only there was a licensed hobby shop here in Vancouver... Oh well...

But that was with friends and you're playing with family(GF is a grey area that you can define). Having been through this a bit with my little brother, I have a couple of suggestions.
- Teach him the rules, encourage him to study his army and the rule book. He will continue to depend on you because he can, you're doing it all the time anyways.
- If he misunderstands or doesn't know the rule, don't answer the question for him. Show him where to find the answer for himself. It's a subtle difference, but this will empower him to deal with it himself.
- All of us know that you can build an army to counterbalance another and given your knowledge of the game, this is probably something you do naturally. Tailor your list to make the game a little more fun for him, don't give the games away. Part of it sounds like he wants to beat his brother, let him. Losing is still fun, if you have a good time playing...
- If he refuses to play by the rules or even learn them, stop playing with him. Not ideal, but it might be necessary for a week or two so he gets the point.

Good luck!

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Solorg wrote:I think this is a serious but altogether common problem. I have a group of friends who games a lot like this. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to this. Some people are just TOO competitive. Simulated war can create a warlike mindset.

The word you're looking for is childish. No one depicted in this thread is being competitive.

I"m going to agree with this assessment. I've seen that type of behavior, but only in younger people. I'd be shocked if the OP and his group were much north of 20 years old, and probably closer to 14.

The only person I allow to not know the rules is my wife because she just enjoys rolling the dice when I say it's time to. For her I don't mind doing most of the work(which includes painting her models and writing her army lists).

Just a littl sidenote: It's my wife that does most of my painting. For some reason I do what the OP's friends do when it comes to painting: NO! STUPID PAINTBRUSH, I PUT THAT LITTLE DOT OF AN EYEBALL THERE... NOT OVER THERE. STUPID BRUSH. I QUIT!

It as improved over the years. I've actually painted 10 Space Wolves recently. Not my best by far, but hey.

shadowsnip wrote:Like every night my girl friend doesn't remember her kabilites ' stats and I do and i've never played a game as Dark Eldar. She's always like "What's it to hit again?"

I mean common you've played how many games with Dark Eldar?? Then my brother throws in his Hive Tyrant like its some kind of god and throws a freakin tantrum because i got a lucky one shot off with a Leman Russ. "No you don't get 5 psychic attacks then get to shoot your freaken venom cannon"

I've been playing 40k for almost 20 years now ... and I still don't know the rules, and I'm always asking the other guy what I need to hit or wound. Just too much for my ADD brain to remember....

People who get stressed or angry when playing really need to take a step back and look at what their doing. Especially at regular gaming nights.
At a competitive tournament you can understand people getting competitive and stressed, they've gone to win the thing.
But if you that way all the time, your doing something wrong. In any hobby, and even in the competitive event you should be having fun and not letting things get to serious.

You know, I lost a game recently (well actually about 3 months ago, but it was one of the last games I played) and I was actually quite happy, it was a fun game I had beaten the guy I was playing a few times (and he's beaten me a few times) and he doesn't get serious at all so he's just really great to play against. The only tournament i've been to outside of my gaming clubs tournaments (and i've only been to two of them) was a ToS at Warhammer World this past January, and 3 of my games were fun against great people with nice armies (win/draw/loss were results against those three) and my other two games, one was a win and one was a loss were both rubbish because my opponents were just there to win, one was trying tricks that I was warned about by a couple of the experienced gamers from my club I went with had a pretty competitive DE list and although was kind of a nice guy when we talked before the game, he just didn't seem to have any fun until he started wiping me off the board then he had a smug look on his face (and then went home for an hour or so, as we finished quickly, what kind of person comes to a tournament and then just goes home in between games? I was talking to my friends from my gaming club and walking around watching other games, thats what your supposed to do right?) And then the game I won that wasn't any fun, was against IG and the guy barley said anything all game apart from the basics, stood their looking miserable apart form his first turn because that was about the only time he actually killed anything. Now I know having your army wiped out isn't nice, but I wasn't being horrible or anything, in fact I actually kind of held back a little to give him a chance in the hope he would cheer up. (The funny thing about that game is, the table next to us one of my friends was playing, and before we started I went to the toilet, and this guy I was playing turned round to one of his friends and said he was going to beat me easily...Which I was then told about afterwards which was quite funny).

Anyway, thats an unnecessary essay. Basically you need to be having fun, if you acting like you suggest in the OP then your not having fun. You should either try playing different people (in less competitive games?), stop playing for a while etc etc. There really is no point in playing if your just going to get stressed and angry.

It doesn't sound like your group actually wants to play 40k. It sounds like you want to play 40k and they are willing to hang out with you. Perhaps you can find an activity to do with them that you'd all enjoy and find some other folks who want to play 40k.

-Loki- wrote:

shadowsnip wrote:MY NECRONS HAVE 3+ SAVE I DONT CARE IF THE NEW CODEX SAYS OTHERWISE

I didn't realize cheating was "being compeitive".

Weird, I read it and was thinking: I didn't realize cheating was "being casual".

But then it's usually the non-competative players that are whinning about this and that rule/OP unit where I game.

I'm just going to throw in here that I get tabled or seriously beaten almost every week at my FLGS (I suck as a general), but I never complain, beyond the occasional dice moan that everyone has when an important roll goes the other way. And no matter how badly I get beaten, I don't mind, because I still learn the rules, and I'm learning more and more about what is wrong with my tactics, army composition etc.

It's not the winning that is important, although it's always nice. The fun part is takinging part in a hobby and having a good time with friends. cheating and getting angry just ruins it for everyone, and that sucks.

Personal attacks are against Rule Number One. I have edited them out this time and given you a warning. Please be aware that continuing in this fashion will result in temporary suspension of your account. Thanks. ~Manchu

The night went well. Absolutely no fights and we actually had fun for a change. Maybe the "shot ticket" did the trick lol. Thank god i didn't have to throw my BRB at them because that thing cost 50 bucks and if it got crooked i'd been pissed haha. Thanks for all your helpful imput it made a difference.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Solorg wrote:Gentlemen,

I think this is a serious but altogether common problem. I have a group of friends who games a lot like this. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to this. Some people are just TOO competitive. Simulated war can create a warlike mindset.

So first, let me lay this out. Some people are not mature enough to play. And in short, if these problems happen every time, clearly it is not fun for anyone and something has to change. The question is: what?

So first, are your friends like this ALL the time or just during 40K? Some people do better with roleplaying games where at least players work as a team. Some people do better in a non-gaming environment (ie watching movies). If your friends are antagonistic in ALL environments then I'd say the game isn't really your problem.

Second question - do you set them off (try to be honest)? If you are blameless then there isn't much to do here. If you are a partner-in-crime to these activities, well, you can change the way you do things. Do you put people on the spot all the time? Do you lord over them with the rules? Are you antagonistic? Working on these things can help.

Taking Breaks: good idea! See if it works! Kind of like Halftime. Our group likes getting lunch together in the middle of a SAT game.

Is one particular player the source of all the trouble? If so, maybe you can talk to him seriously (one on one) when no one else is around. Explain the problem. Ask for his help to solve it. Come off as being on his side. If worst comes to worst you can kick him out of the group, but I really don't suggest it if you're only around for another 4 months.

Award Sportsmanship Points: This works if everyone looks up to you. Howabout a free unit you can deploy in Turn 5? Remove guyz from that unit 2 at a time for bad behaviour. It kind of lets everyone laugh at the bad behaviour a little more and maybe people would strive for a reward. On the other hand if this causes MORE problems, better drop it.

Shorter Games: Maybe play 500 pts instead of 2000. The games go quicker, so less time for tension to build.

Teams: Play 2 on 2. Maybe this way everyone has an ally/friend and will feel less threatened.

That's all my best advice. Unfortunately there's no 1-size-fits-all, but I hope this gets you all back on track to having fun again.

Solorg

You speak words of wisdom, maybe I will put in a rewards system and make a better envirornment. We usually play at night, but i think we should start at 5 pm instead of 8 pm next time

Is there not a sentence in the first few pages of the rulebook that says as long as you and your pals agree to it, you don't need to play by the rules? Use them as guidelines or something?

If your mates are cool with it, make every model in your army 2++ and go at it. Lascannon eyes, Baal Engines for legs, guns that fire Thunder Hammers, why not?

</ot>

shadowsnip wrote:@Scott-S6 please gtfo, your comment is redundant i heard it 50 times from other people on the same thread

@ruminator also gtfo, you stuck up piece of waaaagh spore


@jbunny again another unecessary comment please gtfo and stay tfo

@everyone else who isn't a douche (A vaginal cleaning device)

Way to show how mature you are. I'm surprised you are old enough to drink. Rule #1 and all that.

shadowsnip wrote:@Scott-S6 please gtfo, your comment is redundant i heard it 50 times from other people on the same thread

@ruminator also gtfo, you stuck up piece of waaaagh spore


@jbunny again another unecessary comment please gtfo and stay tfo

@everyone else who isn't a douche (A vaginal cleaning device)

...aaaand it's confirmed you're all no more than 16.

shadowsnip wrote:@Scott-S6 please gtfo, your comment is redundant i heard it 50 times from other people on the same thread

@ruminator also gtfo, you stuck up piece of waaaagh spore


@jbunny again another unecessary comment please gtfo and stay tfo

@everyone else who isn't a douche (A vaginal cleaning device)

Just a note. Rule#1. Play nice.
Note#2: This is an internet forum. NOT a sycophant meetup and circlejerk.
If you post something, do not be surprised if you get people who post negative stuff. You opened the door and it swings BOTH ways.
If you only want positive affirmation of your side of the argument, you will be disappointed.

The attitudes expressed in your opening post often reflect a juvenile and/or immature person's actions.
I don't see them in players over the age of 16 where I play (but then, my club is not based in a store and currently has NO under 18 players).
Oh, and "throwing the book at them" is usually not intended as a LITERAL act.
If you're afraid of your rulebook getting fragged if you throw it at them, improve your aim.

chromedog wrote:Oh, and "throwing the book at them" is usually not intended as a LITERAL act.
If you're afraid of your rulebook getting fragged if you throw it at them, improve your aim.

Win statement!

Tek wrote:Is there not a sentence in the first few pages of the rulebook that says as long as you and your pals agree to it, you don't need to play by the rules? Use them as guidelines or something?

If your mates are cool with it, make every model in your army 2++ and go at it. Lascannon eyes, Baal Engines for legs, guns that fire Thunder Hammers, why not?

</ot>

'The most important rule'. Which states that the rules are not important. The problem with this is if you let people get away with things, they abuse it. It's not there for someone to say 'I don't like that my Necron Warriors were given 4+ saves in the new book, I'm ignoring it and playing them as 3+ saves'. A Tyranid player might as well respond by saying 'My MCs are too expensive, I'm only paying the 4th edition points costs for my Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes'.

Yes that's right, something like that would only be applicable in particular circumstances. Obviously the closer something is to a pick-up game, you need to be playing off the same page and it's difficult to introduce new rules to someone who isn't entirely clear on your motivation. I think the key here being that it sometimes helps to build up a close relationship with the people you are playing, to the point where you can address parts of a game which you feel are causing an imbalance or hampering your enjoyment. Growing up on the likes of D&D, 1st edition 40k and even the likes of Necromunda and Mordheim, a lot more interaction between players was needed for a shared experience, so perhaps it is more natural to older players rather than those who have come into the game on a diet of Playstation deathmatches and try and bring that mindset into tabletop wargaming.

@Scott-S6 please gtfo, your comment is redundant i heard it 50 times from other people on the same thread

If you've heard it that many times, have you given any thought to the fact that there may be some truth to it?

Pacific wrote:Yes that's right, something like that would only be applicable in particular circumstances. Obviously the closer something is to a pick-up game, you need to be playing off the same page and it's difficult to introduce new rules to someone who isn't entirely clear on your motivation. I think the key here being that it sometimes helps to build up a close relationship with the people you are playing, to the point where you can address parts of a game which you feel are causing an imbalance or hampering your enjoyment. Growing up on the likes of D&D, 1st edition 40k and even the likes of Necromunda and Mordheim, a lot more interaction between players was needed for a shared experience, so perhaps it is more natural to older players rather than those who have come into the game on a diet of Playstation deathmatches and try and bring that mindset into tabletop wargaming.

Pretty much this. I only play against my brother and close friends I've gamed with for decades. My brother, for example, takes a Vindicare assassin in a lot of his lists. Yes, we realize that allies aren't a thing anymore. We don't mind. This isn't something that would fly in even a pick up game. It's not much of an 'abuse'. This sort of rule bending is what The Most Important Rule is there for.

Deciding without discussing that you want 3+ saves rather than 4+ saves isn't what the rule is there for.

this is a sweet blog.

Can I just say something without most of you people saying negative things to me?

Yes I understand you all think I'm a little twerp. Ok I get it. I took it in. Why do you think i told people stfu about it? Do I not have the right to send hate back? because HONESTLY I'm sure you're ALL smart enough to realize they aren't calling me a twerp to be helpful, nor intelligent, nor contribute anything useful to this thread/forum. It's just plain rudness. Yes I get it when the first 14 people say "I'm a twerp, And that all my friends are twerps. Thanks. Thanks a lot for letting me realize I was being immature and I should just "grow the feth up". Honestly I mean that. I did realize i should grow up a little bit when I'm playing a stupid game. And honestly guys I did exagerate a little bit with the "IF MY TYRANT DIES YOU DIE!" crap i said in the first post.

But I can't get mad at some community members for continuely trolling the crap out of me?

"And you just confirmed you're all younger than 16" Again another unnecessary comment and If I were to respond to it and say something like "Please stfu, I don't need your gak. Not today and not ever. Thanks." People would blam me like all of you are now. Evidenced by the fact that I already gave remarks at some people for being rude and and when I retaliate (which is normal human behavior) people who have nothing to do with it fire at me like I'm some kind of evil ass.

Take chromedog for instanced. He blams me because I was rude to other players for being rude to me. Kind of hypocritcal of him to respond to me with his nice little lecture of kind of putting me down. Okay I get the picture. And if you come around to play 40k with me, improve your ducking skills, Because unless you have a cover save, I assure you i'll hit. (Don't worry, it's not suppose to be literal)

Maybe I'm just paranoid? Maybe not all of you mean to make me feel like an idiot.

I'm probably going to get banned for having a voice but what the hell. I'd rather be banned of a forum where it seems half the people have sticks up their asses with me standing up for myself than to not stand up for myself and take sheise from people I don't even know for no reason.
And I can honestly say I'm not a little shallow 12 year old twerp. I have been through some things in my life that seperates me from a little punk justin bieber lover 15 year old. But I'm not going to compare myself to all of you, because frankly I don't know you. I don't know what you've all been through or what your life is like. All I'm going to say is Don't be an donkey-cave to me for no reason and I won't be an donkey-cave to you.

So hit me with your blam or ban. take your pick.

I think, generally speaking, when someone treats you poorly you have two options: return the poor treatment or respond with good will. If you do the former, you'll have your "revenge" I guess for all that it's worth. But if you do the latter you may find that the way others treat you improves. That is what I have found. This advice will probably serve you equally well in your gaming group or on internet message boards.