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I would welcome some more love (of the inappropriate touching kind of course) for Slaanesh.

I am so bored of the 'order' of chaos attention that gets lavished by GW and Forgeworld that leaves Slaanesh the least mentioned and least represented and crappiest ruleset.

I don't know. Burgle seems pretty worthless in Fantasy; minus 1 to WS and BS: big deal.

Plastic Chariots come a bit late, already got my two.
The plastic Warshrine is nice though, my lack of modelling talent has meant that i've been without one.
Plastic Forsaken... would've honestly preferred a plastic hellcannon, but oh well.
Plastic Drogres I might use, but they'll likely be in the region of £15-18 for 1, or £23-30 for 3 or so (probably nearer the latter since they're a Special unit), so I doubt i'd buy them anyway.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I would welcome some more love (of the inappropriate touching kind of course) for Slaanesh.

I am so bored of the 'order' of chaos attention that gets lavished by GW and Forgeworld that leaves Slaanesh the least mentioned and least represented and crappiest ruleset.

Yep, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh. So it is and so it shall be.

No chance of the Marauder infantry being redone like the much superior Marauder cavalry. Shame.

I like the look of the WoC stuff, I'm not massively keen on playing Warhammer with it though. If it was a bit cheaper I'd probably buy some.

tarnish wrote:

Nagashek wrote:
They could be more popular, and many people want to own the army, but are heavily discouraged due to the outdated weakness of the army. I for one can't justify recommending it to a new player, it would be a waste to frustrate them so much an an army that has to be played flawlessly against an equally skilled opponant to get a tie. Sure there are regional exceptions, but by and large WE are not a capable army, and need an update much more than any of the three armies slated to get releases before them.

I completely dissagree with your bleak outlook. Ive seen possitively insane woodelf armies that table the opponent quite well in most games... just because you dont see the potential does not mean its not there... take another look at massed archers

I have. And I watch as it gets Manglered/Fanatciked/Savaged/Shadowed/Stonethrowered/Cav'd/Chosenstarred/Minered to death. Repeatedly. Unfortunately the way the army fluff works and the way I prefer to play (which match) are not the way the meta requires the list be built. DE play closer to the style that WE should be able to compete at, cheaply and efficiently. Which is surprising anyway, given that 8th ed has wholly nerfed that style of play in the first place.

The problem isn't the Army as it is the Edition (the opposite problem to VC and Demons in 7th) 8th is terrible. Just terrible. It has good points, neutral points, and horrible points, and most of those horrible points make the neutral points bad points. The Wholesale Slaughter effect of the edition is a neutral point, IMO. The nerf of the Movement phase's relevance to the game is a horrible point. Without manuever, the game becomes a meet in the middle and kill everything rock/paper/scissors fest which means all those deaths are silly and pointless. If the movement phase, marchblocking, and the nerfing of cav hadn't occurred then all these other points are fine. Great in fact. Because steadfast can be mitigated by careful manuevering of your forces. The problem with WE isn't really the fact that you can't build a competitive list with Treekin and Archers, it's that the army's costs and rules are built around 6th ed rules that no longer exist. To whit:
-Getting charged in the flank causes a panic check
-Getting charged by fear causing units causes you to panic
-If the enemy has a unit of US5 or greater within 8" of your unit, you may not march (or reform) that unit.
-Terror causes all enemy units that are not fearless within 6" at the beginning of their turn to test panic or flee. If they attempt to charge a terror causing unit they must test. If they fail, they flee. If they fail a LD test when charged by a terror causing unit, they flee.
-A unit charges based on double it's M characteristic
-Casualties are taken from the front of a unit. If a model is killed before its initiative step, the unit loses its attacks.

There are more, but this is the problem, with an emphasis on the marchblocking and manuver rules. Some of these rules changed with 7th. That means this book was already at a deficit in 7th, but now with the last vestiges of the rules that WE relying on being swept away, the army doesn't play as it was intended. It plays in another way entirely, and that is less fun.

WoC plays great in 8th, and only benefits from every single rule change in the book (that I can think of) so why change it? Overpowered? Rediculous. It can be beaten by other armies just fine. The more important thing is to elevate armies whose rules and styles are incompatable with the current edition (VC needs it, but IMO as a VC player and the opinions of others they were super strong in 7th and can wallow for a bit in 8th for pennance) rather than redoing armies that are just fine. But what do I know?

Noisy_Marine
2011/11/27 02:02:48 Subject: New WoC stuff next year.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I would welcome some more love (of the inappropriate touching kind of course) for Slaanesh.

I am so bored of the 'order' of chaos attention that gets lavished by GW and Forgeworld that leaves Slaanesh the least mentioned and least represented and crappiest ruleset.


Yep, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh. So it is and so it shall be

I know what you mean. If its the same for WHF as it is for 40k Slaanesh should get a whole armory to them selves with explicit use of sonic weaponry.

Nagashek wrote:
I have. And I watch as it gets Manglered/Fanatciked/Savaged/Shadowed/Stonethrowered/Cav'd/Chosenstarred/Minered to death. Repeatedly. Unfortunately the way the army fluff works and the way I prefer to play (which match) are not the way the meta requires the list be built. DE play closer to the style that WE should be able to compete at, cheaply and efficiently. Which is surprising anyway, given that 8th ed has wholly nerfed that style of play in the first place.

I see your points, and their valid, but if you play a "fluffy" version or one that adhears to the idea of "thats how they where meant to be played" you might be having more fun, but loose every time... i agree that in the current metagame such an army would (wood? ) have a hard time... but really you cant expect that to work out every time, if ever... if you dont like the competitive version of the army, thats too bad....

On a different note, i really get it. And to be honest, thats why i play 40k instead.

Hope the new Book they get doesn't do too much damage;

I love spamming Marauders with either a MoK or MoT!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I would welcome some more love (of the inappropriate touching kind of course) for Slaanesh.

And that's why Slaanesh will always have the least attention. With the game being aimed at a younger age group there are serious problems promoting a god of sex and drugs it's relatively easier to have posters of death, plague and magic. I preferred the original minotaur keepers of secrets but the problem comes with the idea that these are demons posing as sexy seductive women who will tempt you then kill you. With all the other powers they just go to extremes of the god's trait, Skulls and blood, disease and decay, transformation and magic and then what? Censorship that's what. GW could theoretically have a branch that did more adult figures but they'd have a hard time promoting them and how would you feel if you had to submit age verification to buy the models?

I'm not saying it's right or that I would support this theoretical behaviour. I'm not saying that this is why GW dont support them. Just that if you look at the traits Slaanesh comes across as a huge pain in the ass. (all double and single entendres intentional)

Remember than Slaanesh is pleasure and pain, not just hot bewbs. We can do more of this...

George Spiggott wrote:No chance of the Marauder infantry being redone like the much superior Marauder cavalry. Shame.

I'm with you on that. Opened up a box of marauder cav, and I'm really impressed with that kit. A couple of the horse poses seem a bit odd, but the variety of heads is sweet!

Warriors don't feel like a top candidate for a re-do, but I'm hopeful that they can do a lot of neat stuff with it.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Remember than Slaanesh is pleasure and pain, not just hot bewbs.

And sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Why doesn't Slaanesh have Combat drugs like Wyches? Sonic Weaponry is great, remember the 2nd ed figs where all the noise marines had GUITARS?!? I liked in the Commisar Cain story where all the Slaaneshi cultists looked like Ziggy Stardust.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Remember than Slaanesh is pleasure and pain, not just hot bewbs. We can do more of this...

This is why you are one of my fave Dakka posters MGS, damn straight for the need of some Slaanesh love. I really need to get a heavily set up bits box and make me a Slaanesh Cenobite styled warband for Mordheim. It would be Magnificent.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Remember than Slaanesh is pleasure and pain, not just hot bewbs. We can do more of this...

I thought (particularly in WHFB) Slaanesh was vanity, glory, and artistic pursuits, in addition to pleasure, pain, and hot bewbs.

Personally I think the whole cenobite look is a bit silly. It's perfectly fine in 40K, but in Fantasy I'd like to see a bit more of Prince Sigvald and a bit less of "slap a bit of pink on a black basecoat and call it kinky."

JOHIRA wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Remember than Slaanesh is pleasure and pain, not just hot bewbs. We can do more of this...

I thought (particularly in WHFB) Slaanesh was vanity, glory, and artistic pursuits, in addition to pleasure, pain, and hot bewbs.

Personally I think the whole cenobite look is a bit silly. It's perfectly fine in 40K, but in Fantasy I'd like to see a bit more of Prince Sigvald and a bit less of "slap a bit of pink on a black basecoat and call it kinky."

Call it whatever you like, slaanesh is about pleasure... pure and simple. if you get it from listening to iggy pop i bet a noise marine is just the thing for you, but painting a picture or jiggling bewbs might be another mans bliss...

No WE or Bet love, but Orcs, Vamp Counts, and Chaos get updates. Ugh. I need to change the armies I can field for some that actually get updated.

I second the demand for more Slaneesh power...he pretty much is the black sheep among the gods, not good for anything at all.

The Mark of Slaneesh is the worst mark out there, only useful for stuff like Marauder Horsemen to stop them from running away after suffering a loss just before they reach the enemy war machines. For others...ItP is not very useful in a WoC army. We already got an above-average LD, Marauders usually have the Mark of Khorne anyway and thus are ItP too, Panic Tests can be rerolled and when everything else fails, we still have the BSB.

Slaneesh also gets the worst items in the book. The pendant is ridiculously useless and while Nurgle's weapon is overpriced, Khorne's ain't too bad.

The Lore of Slaneesh is pretty "meh" as well. The 6th is cool, but the other spells are very lackluster. Not to mention that Sigvald is overpriced as well...

Tzeentch for wizards, Khorne for Marauders and Warriors, Nurgle maybe for Warriors (with Banner of Rage), Slaneesh for...Marauder Horsemen.

Slaneesh wants some love too!

Come to khorne's side, we have skullcookies

No srsly, i think all marks should have equal attention so no one is left behind.

Sigvatr wrote:I second the demand for more Slaneesh power...he pretty much is the black sheep among the gods, not good for anything at all.

What is especially sad/funny about this is that MoS was the mark in 7th, just about any warrior that somehow made it to the field was pink because psychology was so brutal back then. Along comes BSB LD rerolls (and the nerfing of Fear), and Slaanesh became rather redundant over night.

I miss the marks from Hordes of Chaos, with different effects for heroes and units. Nurgle was well done (Fear for units, +1W for characters), and wasn't Slaanesh like ItP for units, ASF for characters? Even if I'm misremembering that would be a pretty decent representation for MoS I'd think, though it means that suddenly all non-wizard chaos characters would be converting to Rerolls for the Rerolls God

- Salvage

Yes, I'd also say that it was ASF...Chaos Spawns still have the ASF when equipped with a Mark of Slaneesh, but then again, Chaos Spawns

I just hope for the codex to allow for many more effective combinations except of Chosenstar and Gateway-spam. The main "problem" imo is that WoC already are an extremely well-organized army where every (useful) unit perfectly plays its part. Warriors are downright brutal melee fighters, Marauders are great for spammy attacks and flanking, Marauder Horsemen excel at fighting enemy artillery, Chaos Knights are (slightly overpriced) heavy cavallery with a 1+ sv and the Marks allow for even further specialization. Sure, we do have some really useless units (Spawns, Forsaken), but most of our units are really good and I can hardly see how GW is going to change the codex to make it stay worthwile. Rebalance a bit, sure, but overall....hmmm....

Sad to hear about Mr. Hastings' 'retirement.' I've always felt that rumors are rumors, and shouldn't be taken too seriously. But his snippets were the kind of thing you could carve in stone, such were their accuracy.

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but it occurred to me that a WoC book might give GW some "season of Chaos"-type marketing angle if the CSM codex is also released around that timeframe.

bhsman wrote:Wonder if the large kit is a shaggoth.

Not sure as its now a fine cast model... but its still a possibility since these big kits can be one or the other. Who knows, maybe a dragon or maybe a shaggoth

boyd wrote:

bhsman wrote:Wonder if the large kit is a shaggoth.

Not sure as its now a fine cast model... but its still a possibility since these big kits can be one or the other. Who knows, maybe a dragon or maybe a shaggoth

The Shaggoth model is fine as it is.

They need new Joe Dragon Ogres.

and models for the other Special Characters.

WTB Throgg. And Plastic Chaos Trolls. And Kholek.

I for one hope that there isn't much 'balancing' in the new army book. I started playing Tzeentch WoC during 7th, and then 8th came along and an army I own actually became good at something without the need to have a Made in China list of samey-same-same.

So long as the Mark of Tzeentch does the same thing, i'm fine, but knowing the whining about how we get a 5+ ward save in combat with HW/S on our warriors and marauders, GW will make it not affect the parry ward save.

Outside of that, everything seems fine, change away.

MoS needs a bit of a buff, and MoN needs to -1 to hit in combat instead of to WS, MoT and MoK might get a slight price increase (35-40pts each). Marauders will probably get a price increase on possibly basic cost (maybe 5-6pts each) and perhaps on a few select weapons (flails and GWs perhaps 2pts each).

A basic horde of 40 khornate marauders with flails will then be around, 315pts with 5pt marauders and 35pt mark, 320pts with a 40pt mark, 355pts with 6pt marauders and a 35pt mark, or 360pts with a 40pt mark; all that currently opposed to the 230pts they cost now. We might only see weapons costs go up, which still makes the horde cost 270pts.

Posted by Darnok over at Warseer by an anonymous source:

Next furthest along was Warriors of Chaos. Miniature wise I saw a plastic chariot which looked nice. There was also a finished sculpt of the Troll King which was huge and very close to the artwork in the current book.

Next army books are Empire, then WoC.

Please do not kill off Throgg.... Please

Kroothawk wrote:Posted by Darnok over at Warseer by an anonymous source:

There was also a finished sculpt of the Troll King which was huge and very close to the artwork in the current book.

Next army books are Empire, then WoC.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Please do not kill off Throgg.... Please

Seems unlikely given one of the two leaks we were just given...

I am now taking bets that O+G will get a new army book before Brets or WE.

Hmm very interesting that these rumors appear to be concreting

I hope forsaken and spawn get usable

Nagashek wrote:I am now taking bets that O+G will get a new army book before Brets or WE.

But they just got one? Or is that the joke