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Lynata wrote:I deem it likely that the respective organs are either atrophied as a side-effect to the chemical treatment forced on their bodies (see real-life bodybuilders) or surgically removed. Certainly it would be much easier for the waste recycler in the armour to simply plug it into a valve than to insert a cathether every time the suit is donned. Not to mention that genitalia would simply occupy useless space in the armour and, at worst, evoke an unnecessarily uncomfortable feeling.

When mentioning the armour is is worth remembering that there are non-marines who wear marine/terminator armour and I assume they are not all castrated to fit in. Clearly the suits can be equipped for normal people so there's no reason there to assume marines are different.

It's worth mentioning as well that those individuals have to wear a kind of interfacing 'suit' in most accounts.

Hector Rex is supposed to be one of the few individuals who can wear Terminator Armour without needing padding to fill it in.

Brother Coa wrote:

Yet another question with title "naked Space Marine".

Why is everyone interested in Space Marines naked and no one is asking the same question for Sisters? What are they wearing under their armor?

Probably something practical. Like an full body suit that is both fire-proof, insulating, breathing, antibacterial, wind-resistant, silent, waterproof, anti infrared, flexible, provides light ballistic protection and has cushions.
( The two latter are for protecting the user from pieces of their own armor. )

Thats what I would quess but since their armor ain't too practical anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they wear cheap clothes made of cotton.

And for the Emperors sake keep your helmets on.

Safor wrote:
Probably something practical. Like an full body suit that is both fire-proof, insulating, breathing, antibacterial, wind-resistant, silent, waterproof, anti infrared, flexible, provides light ballistic protection and has cushions.
( The two latter are for protecting the user from pieces of their own armor. )

Thats what I would quess but since their armor ain't too practical anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they wear cheap clothes made of cotton.

Because many people here seem to have a VERY STRONG desire to see naked genetically engineered giant MEN.

I, on the other hand, want to know what Eldar Banshees wear under their armor

And for the Emperors sake keep your helmets on.

My Space Marine army will have helmets, all of them.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm scared.
I am in agreement with Lynata.
*dramatic thundercrack*

I'll mark it down in my calendar!

Kanluwen wrote:It's worth mentioning as well that those individuals have to wear a kind of interfacing 'suit' in most accounts.

That's what I would say as well - assuming that Marine power armour relies entirely on the Black Carapace and lacks conventional interfacing. Additionally, few people are as bulky as Space Marines to begin with (I might even go as far and suggest that the suits are incompatible as both have been tailored to the individual, even when based on the same parts - I'm sure those pieces come in different sizes).

Safor wrote:Probably something practical. Like an full body suit [...]

Likely. At least it would look fitting (both from an in-universe as well as from a sci-fi fan perspective). That said, if the "moving" parts of power armour consists of fiber bundles instead of servo motors and mechanized joints (as I had assumed when I started the hobby), they could even be woven directly into the bodyglove so that it would form an integral piece of the armour as well as something that you could wear without the heavy plates. In a way, power armour could thus be likened to the medieval combination of gambeson and platemail ...
Thanks for giving me this idea!

Actually, if you look very closely at the SoB miniatures, you even see something "ribbed" at the joints and beneath the armour plates, which I always assumed would be the undergarment. Better visible on this cover from the Daemonifuge books, though as with many artist impressions it takes some liberty from the actual miniatures (lower pic).

Safor wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if they wear cheap clothes made of cotton.

Another plausible idea, this one focusing on their humble lifestyle. Iirc, FFG's RPG even came up with some sort of "penitent garb" that is deliberately scratchy and uncomfortable to wear, though I suppose it would go a bit too far wearing something like this into battle.

Ugh, I need to stop sidetracking threads by jumping at every opportunity to talk about SoB. Carry on, guys.

Lynata, you and Kan are like walking Lexicanum.

Thanks. I guess we both "wasted" a lot of time on hunting down little bits of background knowledge.

Which makes me all the more angry that there is so little consistency, resulting in people like him and me getting into arguments when we've read different things and thus have developed an interpretation that, often enough, seems incompatible.

Alas, First World Problems, eh?

The quest for knowledge is always difficult, especially when people ask about something there is little to none answer at all.

But I am satisfied with knowledge I currently have and I am thirsty for more. Reading posts here I learned a lot, after all - that is the true purpose of this site.

It's nice when we can agree on things, Lyn.

It's a Thanksgiving Miracle!

Hah. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too.

Brother Coa: True, true. Even if all this knowledge is rendered "controversial" by the lack of canonicity, it is still fun reading up on all these things and expanding one's perception - including things that you only hear from other people. This kind of exchange will remain enjoyable no matter what, and forums such as this one are perfect for it.

Lynata wrote:Which makes me all the more angry that there is so little consistency,

The only thing consistent about 40K is that nothing is consistent. GW has always had terrible, or nonexistent fact checking when it came to their work, both in and out of house. Everything is contradicted, so you have to attempt to make sense out of whatever the most reasonable published parts are. Hence why the Codex Astartes results in so much debate. People with no sense of military structure, strategy, warfighting, or history believe the Graham McNeil version of it where it's some kind of absurdly narrow text akin to "If A, then B" instructions. Those who do have a bit of experience in those other fields realize there would be no way that Space Marines could win battles fighting in that manner, and believe the descriptions of the Codex that present it as a giant tome of near endless knowledge and wisdom, with countless examples for every situation that a commander can turn to as guidance when they need to use their initiative to make a decision.

I can't believe I'd let myself get drawn into a discussion about toy soldier sex, but it is important to note for some people that sterility and virility are different concepts. If they are castrating the Marines, they are removing their ability to have sex at all(either by testicle removal or rendering them inert). However, a Marine can be sterilized without this process. It seems to be accepted canon, though I can't place the source and I'm not even going to bother to look, lol, that Marines are infertile and cannot reproduce. Whether or not they have sexual urges of any kind is the debate, though one might wonder why it is debated. Reason seems to follow that you'd want to prevent temptation in a universe full of Slaanesh. But at the same time, Marines have been lured to Slaanesh since the Heresy, so obviously he still has something to offer them in terms of sensual pleasures. While there's the long standing myth of saltpeter in the food of military recruits, it is really just the stress of boot camp and the general lack of members of the opposite sex which suppresses the libido. It's possible that Space Marines are simply too well indoctrinated too inexperienced, and hypnotically suggested to concern themselves with women and sex. They are also on a lot of different drugs to manage their enhanced physiologies. It stands to reason amongst those drugs is a libido suppressant. Which would then explain how they can still possibly be turned by it.

I'm going to go take a shower now. I feel dirty.

Lynata wrote:

Safor wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if they wear cheap clothes made of cotton.

Another plausible idea, this one focusing on their humble lifestyle. Iirc, FFG's RPG even came up with some sort of "penitent garb" that is deliberately scratchy and uncomfortable to wear, though I suppose it would go a bit too far wearing something like this into battle.

Well considering their ascetic lifestyle and militarism, underwear made of Merino wool would be more likely. You get the material from Merino sheep and it has amazing features.
It insulates pretty well even while wet but hardly overheats the body. Its comfortable, antibacterial and it can be made flexible, completely fireproof and anti infrared.

I remember seeing Marines just in underwear before the Techpriest put them in power armor ( various pictures in codexes and others ).

Come to imagine it - we rarely saw Space Marine outside Power Armor.

DarknessEternal wrote:

BLOODCLAWallday wrote:Do SW's run around in viking clothing while DA where smocks? Or is there a sort of uniform they sport around?

Yes, yes, no.

Mostly they wear robes.

Robes and bodygloves.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Whether or not they have sexual urges of any kind is the debate, though one might wonder why it is debated.

Slaanesh may be a factor. But I prefer to think celibacy amongst Space Marines is enforced for political reasons. The same reasons why ancient Chinese emperors castrated their most trusted servants, the higher echelons of their courts, so as they remained loyal to the Royal Family and only to them.

Without offspring, there's no foreplanning, no power play, no divided loyalties, no dynasties of powerful officials plotting to their own advantage instead of working for the good of the Empire and, most importantly, no dreams of ever usurping the throne.

On the other hand, toy soldier sexuality... ugh

Agent_Tremolo wrote:The same reasons why ancient Chinese emperors castrated their most trusted servants, the higher echelons of their courts, so as they remained loyal to the Royal Family and only to them.

I thought that was to stop them knocking around with any of his concubines seeing as there was a lot of them and a lot of servants and only one of him. Where relationships were found the penalties were harsh.

That, too.

Imagine if one of those trusted courtiers managed to get the empress, or one of the princesses, pregnant. A bastard child with a claim to the throne. Indamissible!.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's not the case of our Marines, though.

However, try to imagine what would have been of the Imperium if our Russ, Girlyman, Dorn, Magnus, Sanguinius et al. (not to mention all the praefects and legionnaries under their command) had been able to start their own dynasties...

This is the best thread ever created in the history of ever.

I should point out that using Marines joining Slaanesh isn't proof of the possibility of Spehss Mehreen sex drive. Slaanesh is not inherently concerned with sex, and indeed every Slaaneshi Marine I have seen has never demonstrated sexual desire. Take Lucius the Eternal as an example, he's mostly concerned with the sensations involved in fighting and killing opponents, especially strong ones. Slaanesh is about sensation in general, not merely sexual sensation.

As far as I know, no Slaaneshi Marine has demonstrated a sex drive, but even if one has, that could be explained by Slaaneshi mutations giving him a drive (And possibly equipment, if indeed the Marine lacks it, Slaanesh is easily capable of such things). On whether or not a Marine has any equipment or not, I've never seen anything that indicates anything regarding it (And why would I? It's a pretty irrelevant detail). I will say that I doubt they'd have the horsecawk as Lynata said, since that would seem pretty detrimental and uncomfortable for someone whose sole existence is meant to be spent fighting and winning battles.

Oh, but onto the physicality of a Space Marine. It should be noted that in every work I've seen regarding a Marine without armour, they were described as so bulky and muscular as to appear monstrous or inhuman, appearing more intimidating out of armour because normal humans learn that the armour does not, in fact, add the greater part of their bulk to their bodies.

In Salamander various marines are described as wearing clothing that is, more or less, "normal" when out of their armor. Of course, the Salamanders are hardly average.

In the Fall of Damnos, they're described in fatigues.

As for sex, like clothing I would assume that varies from chapter to chapter. There are several instances in the Space Wolves codex, for example, where their...um...prowess is brought up in references to activities not related to combat.

Arandmoor wrote:In Salamander various marines are described as wearing clothing that is, more or less, "normal" when out of their armor. Of course, the Salamanders are hardly average.

In the Fall of Damnos, they're described in fatigues.

As for sex, like clothing I would assume that varies from chapter to chapter. There are several instances in the Space Wolves codex, for example, where their...um...prowess is brought up in references to activities not related to combat.

Loki's sexual prowess refers to before he was a Space Marine, IIRC.

The wolf codex does have one marine "making a pass" or something at a woman.

Just remember that you don't have to have functioning danglies to participate in sex, you just won't be able to procreate

Also who says the Marines are in the Give slot of the give/take ratio in Slaaneshi debates?

Well, it's old fluff, but in Slaves to Darkness it...hints that the Emperor's Children assault on Earth included them raping a large chunk of the population.

"As one of the traitor legions, the Emperor's Children invaded Earth, but took little part in the fighting around the Imperial Palace. Simple pleasures had given way to complex debaucheries. While there allies fought and died the Emperor's Children slaughtered more than a million people and rendered them down to create endless varieties of drugs and stimulants. Countless thousands more died to give the Legionnaire's more direct, if cruder, enjoyment."

It also states; "The thrill of battle is a rediscovered thrill and aphrodisiac, allowing them to reach new extremes of debauchery."

Both are taken from Page 263, if people wish to check.

While neither specifically states they whip it and plug it in, as it were, it certainly hints more that they like to do more than just...er...grind people into super-coke. So unless a more recent book specifically says they don't...

Possibly the Marines after them were modified to not have the gear or desire, but I don't think the Imperium modifies the Marines much. So I'd say they have the gear. They simply lack opportunity and focus on other things.

Kanluwen wrote:First, to quell the line of thinking about "Hurr Space Marines and Sex!": The Astartes are chem-gelded. That means they physically and mentally have no sexual desires.

Source?

You're not going to find a source specifically discussing Space Marine sexuality or lack thereof. GW keeps things fairly PG-13.

However, there are a few things that can be inferred. As Lynata mentioned, marines are pumped full of super-steroids of all kinds. Those tend to induce sterility in real life and atrophying of the wedding tackle. I doubt marines are any different in that regard. I would also assume that psycho-conditioning would include suppressing what was left of their sex drive, not even necessarily intentionally, just due to the extreme focus on training and duty.

That said, in Fulgrim, it is implied that Fabius Bile has found a way of re-awakening the sex drive in the Emperor's Children. Then during the "concert" in which the audience basically crosses to Slaanesh, there's a lot of rape or sex in general implied, even from the marines in attendance. Sex is usually implied in descriptions of Slaaneshi followers, and I would imagine the marines are no different. See also the Emperor's Children during the siege of Terra, as mentioned. If they were just torturing people, GW would say so. "Cruder" desires is just PG-13 code for sexual assault.

So like I said, no specific sources, but with a little guesswork and reading between the lines, it seems like marines probably still have all the right bits, but they're mostly out of service. However it's still possible to bring all the right systems back on line, either through the right chemical cocktail, or through the influence of Slaanesh. This all jives pretty well with real-life medicine and with the scant descriptions in the fluff, and it's the interpretation I personally go with.

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:You're not going to find a source specifically discussing Space Marine sexuality or lack thereof. GW keeps things fairly PG-13.

Violent slaughter, dismemberment, torture and genocide are okay. But we wouldn't want to talk about any sexing, lol.

Marvellous world we live in, right?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113981-Dutch-Porn-Star-Awkwardly-Uninvited-From-Modern-Warfare-3-Launch-Party

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:However it's still possible to bring all the right systems back on line, either through the right chemical cocktail, or through the influence of Slaanesh. This all jives pretty well with real-life medicine and with the scant descriptions in the fluff, and it's the interpretation I personally go with.

Same here. They can also grow tentacle arms and breasts, so ...

English Assassin wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:First, to quell the line of thinking about "Hurr Space Marines and Sex!": The Astartes are chem-gelded. That means they physically and mentally have no sexual desires.

Source?

You are seriously asking source to this response? Like hundred years of nothing more then devotion to the Emperor, Mankind and waging constant war sor survival is not reason enough. Now you give me source of Space Marine having sex with some female, or male in that question. You can't because that thing don't exist for them.
They are Humanity's finest warriors, that title implement that you can't have time for other things like personal life, wealth and sexual desires.

As Kan said, they are effectively chemically castrated. It's not like this is part of the process like "We're on step 14: time for some good old-fashioned castration!". It's more like a side-effect. So much is altered in them that they lose that part of their humanity.

Learn the difference between evidence and inference, people.

I'll cheerfully concur that the Astartes as depicted are uninterested in sex: they are, fundamentally, the protagonists of war stories, not Mills and Boon novels. But, unless it can be explicitly substantiated from a canonical source that they are deliberately and specifically chemically neutered, claiming that they are is inaccurate and misleading.