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Off topic: will hamernators win against TWC? Does it depend on the TWC's setup?

Depends what the twc are kitted with and if they have a lord or not. A wolf lord with the bear(makes em immune to id) can make then pretty durable.

They won't win. TWC have a natural toughness of 5.

Fafnir wrote:They won't win. TWC have a natural toughness of 5.

yeah, so?


Paladin deathstars WILL have a character attatched that can give them Hammerhand, then the Brotherhood banner lets them auto-activate their NFWs. That way they wound on 4s and cause Instant Death.

only the Saga of the Bear is going to help them, and then the Paladins get smushed

Three things will help solve the problem.

Death cult assassins
Dual hammer hand
Land raider to ensure they can assault.

Please apply vigorously to the TWC problem. Watch as the TWC literally melt away.
Not only does this solution work on TWC! Apply to MEQ or GEQ for equally spectacular results.
Heck it even cleans MCs out of the hard to reach places! ICs are no match for this power.
The best thing is it's so cheap for what I does, ensuring those vital points for your army of riflemen.

So go out and get your DCA DS today and watch your opponents (and friends) fade away.

except the $ cost is steep.

Make your own DCA from wytches. LRs are not that hard to get your hands on. That leaves you with 2 pewter models to buy, it's not that much worse than other dear stars plus transports. Heck, you can porbably build it for under 100 bucks

I think the biggest problem is being called a dbag and never finding a friendly game again

Grey Templar wrote:

Fafnir wrote:They won't win. TWC have a natural toughness of 5.

yeah, so?


Paladin deathstars WILL have a character attatched that can give them Hammerhand, then the Brotherhood banner lets them auto-activate their NFWs. That way they wound on 4s and cause Instant Death.

only the Saga of the Bear is going to help them, and then the Paladins get smushed

That was in reference to Hammernators, not Paladins. Remember last page, I was the one who originally suggested the Paladin deathstar.

A long time ago, I wrote down some mathhammer about the matchup. Paladins steamroll all over TWC.

No single unit will beat a paladin-star in assault. It would require a team effort in order to do so.

Theories are beautiful but till you play.. People keep saying Paladins, Librarian, land raider etc but thats not standard or forced. lets see you say raider I say razorback spam with las/plas.. you say libby I say 15 long fangs hittin them with 15 missiles with the rb shoot them walking.. against a squad of 5 they wont be in good shape vs twc then hitting. For these discussions quit using best case to make the paladins look that much better.. Not like twc have slouch back up.

The question was about TWC. And Paladins are probably the most effective counter for them in combat.

Not really, death cult are better. Fewer pts and more attacks that only ss stop.. hell even purifiers with a libby.. quicksilver and cleansing flame then attacks. Paladins are NOT the be all end all.

Draigo wrote:Theories are beautiful but till you play.. People keep saying Paladins, Librarian, land raider etc but thats not standard or forced. lets see you say raider I say razorback spam with las/plas.. you say libby I say 15 long fangs hittin them with 15 missiles with the rb shoot them walking.. against a squad of 5 they wont be in good shape vs twc then hitting. For these discussions quit using best case to make the paladins look that much better.. Not like twc have slouch back up.

Not talking about theory, son. I've played as and against all 3 deathstars - paladins, TWC and TH/SS terminators. And I'm not talking best case scenario either. It's common to see competitive Draigowing armies with 10 pallies and Draigo, just as it is common to see space wolves with 15 missile long fangs or hero-hammer SW with 4 TWC lords and a unit of TWC. I myself run a Draigowing build with 10 pallies and Draigo and know a number of people who also do too (Blackmoor, Zagman, Artemo, Grey Therion).

Deathcults no doubt are an efficient and a good unit. But make no mistake, they won't beat TWC by themselves. They will need help. And that is how you beat deathstars....by a team effort. Same goes with beating paladins.

son? You are assuming a lot there. I realize how deathstars work. I play draigowing, purifiers and various grey hunter stuff, sw, eldar and chaos. Not my first rodeo here and thats why we use armies not one unit vs one unit. But I have yet to see a paladin squad win a game alone.

Right. Unit analysis in a vacuum is useless. In order to take down deathstars like TWC space wolves or Draigowing paladins, it will take your whole army working in unison.


@OP:

I faced TWC space wolves at the Ard Boyz with my Crowe Purifiers. He had 2x5 TWC fully kitted out for wound allocation along with 2 TWC lords, one with Warrior Born and the other with Bear saga.

On turn 1, I focus-fired my entire 2500pt army at one of his deathstars and managed to wiped them out. Then against the 2nd wolfstar, I charged his lord with Crowe (after he ate one of my sacrificial units) and took out his lord with Heroic Sacrifice. I then finished off the rest of his TWC with a combination of 2 purifier units (5-man), 1 dread and 1 vendread in assault.

Moral of the story? It takes a combined effort to wipe out these type of units. Focus-fire, screen out your important units with a sacrificial one, and then counter-assault. With grey knights, especially with purifiers or paladins, you have a good chance of doing significant enough damage so that you can eventually win the battle.

rpricew wrote:

Tri wrote:

rpricew wrote:Tank shock seems to work the best for me... I just focus tanks on the nearest unit and the TWC are so fast sometimes they just run right off the board.

... right 10/36 odds that they fail that moral test. While 28% is quite good it does leave more then 70% odds that you've just fed them a tank (which they can just ignore for better targets). Even if they do fail you then have to manage to escort them off the board.

Have you actually tried what I said or just rolled some dice or tapped some keys on the calculator?

I assure you if you have multiple vehicles, and use multiple tank shocks making sure you move more than 6" then the TWC will usually break and run. Since they fall back 3D6 that's an average of 14" which moves them way back from whatever they were trying to kill.

I'm speaking from experience using Razorbacks and Tau Devilfish.

Is it a sure win? Well, what is in this game. But it is a maneuver that your opponent probably won't see coming at least the first time you do it. And it gives you another chance to put the game on your terms as opposed to theirs.

Way to restart the thread ... I always put down the mathematical chance of something happening. Sure I won't brake out a calculator and check mid game but knowing that 70% of the time a LD8 unit will just sit there makes me careful that I have other means of destroying them.

Now speaking from actual game experience I normally just shoot them with Scatter Lasers and wait for them to fail their saves; they're the main reason I've moved over to warwalkers.

Draigo wrote:son? You are assuming a lot there. I realize how deathstars work. I play draigowing, purifiers and various grey hunter stuff, sw, eldar and chaos. Not my first rodeo here and thats why we use armies not one unit vs one unit. But I have yet to see a paladin squad win a game alone.

I have. Was pretty cool. One good multi-assault can take out almost an entire army.