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It entirely depends on whether I feel said action is motivated by knowledge the player didn't have at the time when he was supposed to take the action.

infinite_array wrote:

dumbuket wrote:warhams was never designed as a serious, tournament game system. it's a simple set of rules to let you and your friends play space battles with your army mans. if you're getting redface angry over "taksies backsies", then you're missing the point of the experience, *even* during a "tournament game". that also seems to be games workshop's attitude about things, fwiw

Then explain 'Ard Boyz - a competition run by GW, and quite possibly the most cut-throat event of the Warhammer gaming scene.

And please cut the 4chan speak. You're in a 'civilized' part of the internet now.

'Ard Boys - The annual gathering of everyone that everyone else wants out of the hobby.

And, no, we're not.

On Topic: I'm rules light, people that I know to be Stifflers about rules I just don't play. They can go to 'Ard Boys.

Eehhh I'll try to match my opponent. I mostly play against my friends who got me into the game in the first place, so we're familiar with each other's play. I do admit though, I am horribly forgetful - the number of times I've forgotten to do something (usually Warptime at the start of the turn, sigh, although forgetting to fire my Vindicator in one game was massive fail), then remembered at some point in the NEXT phase and gone "argh I forgot ---" is just plain embarrassing. Sometimes my mates would let me get away with it, sometimes they wouldn't, hehe.

It got to the point where our group agreed on a new "rule" - every game, each player gets one "Skits", where we can do something we forgot to do earlier as long as the opponent agrees to it. Like, "Agh, I forgot to move my unit, can I use my skits now?" Most of the time we're cool with it, mostly 'cause it's funny. Though we do stick strictly to the 'only ONE skits a game' rule. If you need more than one per game, you're... well, me.

And yes, I only get one "skits" a game as well, hehehe. It's helped me remember to cast Warptime more regularly, at least!

I actually think there is a lot of merit in the fact that Warhammer wasn't originally designed to be competitive.

I'm at an impasse here. I don't want to play the game strictly at all, but at the same time I don't know how well I could handle someone who constantly forgot to roll in their reserves. Assaulting before shooting etc.

I play with someone who doesn't forget, rather IGNORES his movement phases, he skips straight to his shooting phase and complains that he is never close enough to assault. He plays Blood Angels...

Kinda srict. If im playing someone new i don't mind. or if its just the once in their turn.

Squidmanlolz wrote:I play with someone who doesn't forget, rather IGNORES his movement phases, he skips straight to his shooting phase and complains that he is never close enough to assault. He plays Blood Angels...

And you actually listen to this? You're a saint on earth!

It's only a game, so there's no reason deviate from agreed upon rules, e.g. Codex + Rulebook.

dumbuket wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

dumbuket wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:How strickt are you when playing the game?

How empty is the rest of your life?

How hollow is the cavity where your soul was before asking that?

I see we touched a raw nerve

I was just trying to start a chain of random, off topic questions But yeah, the game shouldn't be taken too terribly seriously. Everyone should be having fun, unless they're just being a whiny bitch of their own accord.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

dumbuket wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

dumbuket wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:How strickt are you when playing the game?

How empty is the rest of your life?

How hollow is the cavity where your soul was before asking that?

I see we touched a raw nerve

I was just trying to start a chain of random, off topic questions But yeah, the game shouldn't be taken too terribly seriously. Everyone should be having fun, unless they're just being a whiny bitch of their own accord.

Well as long as we're being off topic, it seems my last post was an unintentional double entendre.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a gak about the rules? Mark it zero!"

As long as they aren't cheating ie they fire a ml on one side of the field before going 'feth I forgot to move my scouts' (on the other side with no relevance to the rest) then fine.

Shooting and blowing up a rhino THEN wanting to move your men so they are able to shoot/assault the contents I'm against though.

Depends who i'm playing against to an extent. I'll normally let things slide (and that has lost me games in the past) even at a tournament I let one of my opponents do a couple of things they forgot to do...

If i'm playing against one of the more experienced players, especially if they are using a very good army/list then I would rather not let them do things they have forgotten etc as they are already better than me... But still even then I think in game I would probably still let them do what ever it was they forgot.

I am kinda strict, i will let people off if they don't move something and they have started the shooting phase, not shooting in the assault phase though, for some reason. also, because it's a game and it's made to have fun i will try to have fun, if that means letting someone into assault if they are literally 1 or 2 mm's away then so be it, also, I don't expect it but i wouldn't mind if i was let off once or twice in a game, we all make mistakes. most of the time me getting let off for the small things i do wrong, like forgetting to move. but if they don't let me off i'm totally cool with it because i know i was the one who made the mistakes and i need to remember not to make the mistake the next time

I recently had someone shoot at me from more than 2" inside area terrain, who claimed that since he did not know that there was a rule that gave the enemy unit a cover save against shots coming from more than 2" inside area terrain, he could go back and move the unit so they could shoot without conferring cover.

Since it was a warm up game I let him off, had it happened when I faced him later in the tournament, my answer would've been a firm no, no matter how much protesting.

I'll let people off things, within reason, outside of competative environments, but i've been disallowed to run units or shoot with units after moving into my assault phase (but not peforming any assaults) outside of competative environments, so each to their own I guess; there is justification in the form of "you'll learn not to forget it next time", but there's something about it happening in friendly games, with the most innocent of or slight mistakes, that makes it seem less to teach you not to forget things and more because they're just being overly picky, especially if you're winning.

Avatar 720 wrote:
I'll let people off things, within reason, outside of competative environments, but i've been disallowed to run units or shoot with units after moving into my assault phase (but not peforming any assaults) outside of competative environments, so each to their own I guess; there is justification in the form of "you'll learn not to forget it next time", but there's something about it happening in friendly games, with the most innocent of or slight mistakes, that makes it seem less to teach you not to forget things and more because they're just being overly picky, especially if you're winning.

I'd ay that sums it up for me; This could be my writing, even the examples you show happened the same to me

I say rules are rules, so everything has to be done by them. With that said i usually allow opponents to take stuff back because of errors made in rules or because of simple tactical mistakes.
So by errors i mean that my opponent forgot that crisis suits could move in the assault phase, i would let him move them (as long as it was before or really close to the begining of my movement phase) simply because it reinforces the proper rules in our gameplay.

I have a friend who ALWAYS forgot his banner bonus to attack, so we usually had to do assault phases twice in our first couple of games. Sure it was annoying and it had cost me a victory once, but now he doesn't forget it anymore.

As for tactical mistakes, I mean sillly things like you got really excited about an assault and you forgot to shoot something or something along those lines. I want to know that i won (or lost) because of skill and some luck, not because some one made a silly mistake that cost them the game.

All in all, it really depends on the opponent how much i'll let slide. I'll always start nicely, but if they don't return the favor or an "undo", I get strict. Most people i play against are nice people though so we'll make mistakes because we're enjoying the game so redos help keep it fun...

It depends. If it was an honest mistake and the situation is fixable, then okay, let's fix the situation and then keep playing. For example, if you start declaring charges and realize you forgot to fire one of your units, that's easy to fix.

But if it's a unit hidden in a building that everyone forgot about, and it would have moved through the area that everything else was fighting, or it would have been shooting at different units for two turns, there's a limit to what you can do to fix that sort of thing.

Of course, sometimes people want to play a strict no-takebacks style game as an exercise or something.

Very liberal, toy soldiers is not on the list of things I want/need to take seriously!

The people I regularly play with are all of the same opinion and it leads to good games. People are trying to win, but noone is being over the top if you make a little error.

That being said, its very easy to tell if someone is genuinely mistaken or being a bit of a dick and trying to take advantage. I can certainly tell the difference and category 2 players are only going to get one game off me.

Its the good thing about a game which is played in person in a local area in general I guess: People who are terrible opponents get a reputation of being one and will subsequently find it harder to get a game and to be terrible opponents to anyone else. Natural selection in war gaming if you will. If people know you as a fair, easy going, fun opponent you will always have opposition.

I typically won't mind.

In fact, before one of my friends starts shooting, I'll point to a unit he didn't move and ask did he want to move that guy? Often times, the answer is yes, thanks!

At a tournament, I wouldn't. How do i know you didn't move that figure on purpose so that you could wait and see if you can crack open a transport or remove my dreadnought that would threaten your transport.

It all depends on the situation/person. If in a tourney then I am fairly strict. If it is a casual game and someone forgets to move a unit into assault then I'll allow it.

On the flip side it also depends on my opponent. If I am playing someone and I know in past games he has not allowed an opponent to do something then I'll hold him to the same standard he treats other players.

I'm a lot more forgiving of other player's errors than my own. When I mess something up, I feel I have failed. I should not have put my opponent in the position of having to let me go back.

Yet I truly have no problem letting an opponent go back, unless its too far past the point of return, where it would change other things that have occured since.

Recently I've take to simply asking my opponent.

Friendly or cut throat?

If he says friendly, I'll ask for pointers post action, and I'll give him some as well if he wants them. If he want's cut throat, I'll still joke around with him about things, but I simply won't help him. Some people get so serious they forget to laugh during a game. Best guy I've played a tourny ever made bets with me about how many lasgun shots it would take to kill his dreadknight.

it was 219

IRON FIST! NO MERCY! NO FORGIVENESS!! RRRAAAGGHHH!!!!



...


Ha. I play the vast majority of games at my house with my friends while drinking beer and having a good time. If someone screws up and it's out of phase they generally concede they screwed up and game continues, but they almost always have the chance to perform whatever action they needed to if it was critical (such as move their vehicle so it isn't auto-pummled in the next CC phase). Bottom line s it's a game and it's all about fun. We very rarely get too competitive.

However, when we game at our FLGS it's with dice in one hand and rule book in the other with the full intention of crushing our opponents so badly that their entire existence is wiped from the tabletop and they post their army for sale on eBay when they get home.

I'm ok if it happens once or twice but other than that I can get quite annoyed.

In friendly games I spend most of my time tutoring junior players who wish to join our tournament gang - this reflects on my attitude towards friendly games:
I will not ever complain or take back anything *I* mess up, to discipline myself.
I will however always openly analyze my opponents move and always allow him to correct moves.

.

In tournaments my experience and attitude actually change little. In matches with top-tier players I usually ask beforehand: Wanna have a really relaxed game, or wanna feth each other over little oversights? With said top tier players this works perfectly.

Medium-skill players are hit and miss, as their emotional investment in the game is too big / their grasp of what is going on is sometimes lacking, so games can turn ugly.

Lowskill players aggravate me the most, as really bad players will complain and whine over things THEY DO forget, asking to rectify their mistakes, but in turn will make no such ammends to their opponent. This usually results in me having to fall back upon strict RAW gamestiles.

.

To summarize: The higher skill the opponent at a tournament is, the smaller the need to play strict, as good sports with firm grasp of the rules will understand what their opponent wants to do.

An example of this could be vehicles and cover. There may be situations where it is possible but time consumingly difficult to position your vehicles for cover as per the RAW. With Highskill players this results in an agreement: We both instantly recognize the possibility of cover, so we save time and simply declare that the vehicle is in cover.

Lower tier players will try to gain that small advantage, and/or try to dispute such agreements if they feel as if there was an advantage being taken away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll amend my post:

Whenever a teammate and my meet in the run of a tournament, we will feth each other for every inch and everylittle rulesdispute we have - - for the sake of integrity, to prevent any idiots getting the idea that we push each other / simply throw a game.

In a small tagteamtournament my favourite apprentice even gave up the First Place - by allowing his opponent to shoot stuff he had forgotten - AFTER the assault phase. He lost 2tourneypts, but held high our standard for sportsmanship and claimed 2nd overall

.

A good sportsman demands nothing for himself but is always generous to his opponents.

Posts above in the meaning of "I'll allow 2 or 3 slips before getting annoyed" are utter bs: It's a game, rand winning is only worth something if you are the best sport there is!

I'll let 1 - 2 things slide each game, and no more than that.

I've had times where I've completely forgotten to shoot my monolith.... yes that's right, the biggest thing on the board slipped my mind/sight. My opponent has offered to let me shoot it in my assault phase but I always decline. When I punish myself for doing dumb things like that, I learn for the next time I play to take a long look at the board before escalating and getting excited about the next phase (ESPECIALLY movement to shooting phase lol).

Eeps wrote:Very liberal, toy soldiers is not on the list of things I want/need to take seriously!

The people I regularly play with are all of the same opinion and it leads to good games. People are trying to win, but noone is being over the top if you make a little error.

That being said, its very easy to tell if someone is genuinely mistaken or being a bit of a dick and trying to take advantage. I can certainly tell the difference and category 2 players are only going to get one game off me.

Its the good thing about a game which is played in person in a local area in general I guess: People who are terrible opponents get a reputation of being one and will subsequently find it harder to get a game and to be terrible opponents to anyone else. Natural selection in war gaming if you will. If people know you as a fair, easy going, fun opponent you will always have opposition.

This. This exactly.

Look 40k is a really fun hobby and all that gak but lets not forget, we're playing with plastic miniature action figures.

I'm extremely flexible. If someone made a mistake and wants to fix it, as long as it's reasonable. Ill let em do it. Heck I'll remind people if I think they made a mistake no matter who it favors. When I mess up, and we all do, I expect a certain level of courtesy. If you won't let me roll for reserves because I already moved two units you're quite obviously a who takes it WAY too seriously and I will never play you again. And I'll start going hard to beat you in the game we're playing now.

Also this is a little off topic but I'll sometimes agree with my opponent to just do crap because I'd be epic, rules be damned.

An example. I was playing an IG player a week ago. He had a basic knowledge of the rules and his units but I doubt he'd been playing for more then say six months. He kept checking his codex and I had to explain the moral system to him throughout most of the game. He was a pleasant dude tho and had a fun list to play. Ratlings and Rough RIders=so much more fun then a parking lot. I was stomping him. He shot most everything on my Oblits/defiler and severely underestimated my prince/zerkers. So I was in his back yard by turn two and the results of the battle were quite clear early. He mentions something about his special commander (Yarik or however you spell it I'm lazy) being really epic in CC. "Really" I say "He doesn't look so tough, prove it." "I will" he said "see what happens if he gets in close combat with like, your Lord over there." "Lets do this" I said, "lets put them in combat one on one right in the middle." He agreed and they had a pretty epic fight for the next three turns. He ended up winning after staggering back up once. I slaughtered him in the end but the game was made much more enjoyable for the both of us.

My point is this. Have fun. How much fun is mercilessly crushing your opponent while being a stickler about the smallest of things and leaving him pissed off and depressed? Maybe Thor likes doing that but I'm not that kind of gamer.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "maybe" in my last sentence was unnecessary.

If its a mistake or someone forgets a rule, like me when it comes to ghaz and "Slow and Purposeful". Im really bad for that . But if other people forget or make mistakes. I dont mind, then again I'm really Patient with people.

But if they cheat or purposefully poo on the rules. Then I will just tell them "no you cant do that" or "no bro, play the game properly and do bull crap

Fine if it happens a few times or occasionally, but not all the time every game. If they wish to play they should learn how to.