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I agree with you riplikash. I think in every battleforce there should be an army general.

If you look at the PP starter box you pay $50, get an army around 11 points, AND you get the warcaster.

I myself wanted to start a project for Christmas but I've been wondering if it is really worth it.

runmymouth wrote:
It's no worst in cost than a video game.

Perhaps, but look at the video game industry, the cost of those games go DOWN.

I mean, SNES games would sell for $60-$100. Chrono Trigger I think was $89 when it first released.

Now, an expensive PC game is $59 and people make more money now than they did 15 years ago.

Paul wrote:I remember when mars bars were 15p.

I remember when my gas and electric was about £50 a quarter.

riplikash wrote:

But on a more theoretical note, I agree they may be getting to the point where they are hurting themselves. It is getting to the point where it is too hard to get into the hobby. I've seen lots of teenagers in recent years who are very fascinated, and would like to get involved, the the price of entry was just too high. They just couldn't get enough units to play a game for under 200-300$, and paint on top of that. You really should be able to get started for under 100$. They have tried that with their battle forces, but they typically don't give you enough points, or the units you actually need.

This is the real issue. It makes getting into the game or starting another force simply too expensive at this point. I couldn't start another army now at the current prices and feel comfortable about it aside from GK's since you can do them on the cheap (which no doubt has contributed greatly to their popularity on top of their power level).

I don't have an issue with GW charging what the market can bear, but i think they're past what the market can bear for the cost of their models given the size of armies in the long term, and that hurts the hobby. It's one thing for a game like Infinity where even the cheapest models are more than $10 each, but you only need 8-12 models for a tournament sized force, it's another when models are, at cheapest $3 each and often $5-15 after kit and bitz if not more and you need anywhere from several dozen to a couple hundred of them. For most of GW's markets (teenagers, college aged kids), that cost is out of hand and entry is becoming impossible, and this isn't even including hobby materials and painting supplies which can often add huge costs to an army.

As a result of the price increases, I haven't started a new army in quite a while, and have simply added small bits to existing armies. I have however been coaxed into Infinity and two Firestorm Armada fleets for less than the cost of another GW army (no, I'm not trying to get on the "TRY OTHER SYSTEMS/SCREW GW" soap-box, just making a note). That's something I'd worry about if I were GW.

I think the problem with the "stop buying GW period" statement is this; it only raises prices more. Each year GW sales drop a little more and they raise prices accordingly. It only works if everyone stops buying stuff and that will ultimately hurt our FLGS's as well as GW.

I paid nearly £30 for a Furioso Dreadnought kit that is barely twice the size of an average marine (A box of 10 costs £23) and and rather than doing a tiny favour by putting 2 more Blood Fist fingers on the sprue, I've got to buy an entire new kit to get my full Blood Fists, then the same thing happens again! This seems extrordinary considering they have the guts to shove 3 sarcophagus fronts and 4 arm variants into the kit but act like we're being evil when we ask for 2 measly parts that are shorter than your pinkie fingernail...

I only buy "new" when I'm buying bits for my conversions. Otherwise I try to purchase second hand from non-retailers off of E-Bay. The only way you can send GW a message is to not buy their stuff. Look, we can all reminisce about the old days. I remember I had a part time job when I was in high school and I used that money to buy figs. Two metal Space Marines used to be $5. In the old days, Rhinos were two for $20, then one for $15, then $20, then $25, etc. It took them over ten years to update the model but it kept getting more expensive, lol. They've always charged more than the models were "worth" but people have continued to buy them. But whining about prices when you continue to buy is rather silly.

andrewm9 wrote:I think the problem with the "stop buying GW period" statement is this; it only raises prices more. Each year GW sales drop a little more and they raise prices accordingly. It only works if everyone stops buying stuff and that will ultimately hurt our FLGS's as well as GW.

To a certain extent, yes, maybe. Problem is they're intent on raising the prices on a regular schedule. Do we have an obligation to offer our unconditional custom, in the hopes that they will deign to keep prices at their present levels? That seems like inverted capitalism somehow.

Don't buy the product if you're not happy with the prices. If they think that the solution to pricing customers out of the market is to raise prices further, well, then, I fall back on classic rhetoric: "Some businesses deserve to fail." Someone will step up in their place, and life will go on. Will it be a shame? For me, sure. I like GW, applaud them for not offshoring production to China, and I don't mind paying the prices they demand, but I'm not the one complaining here. If they went under though, I wouldn't shed any tears.

I mean, WotC is, for all intents and purposes, a dead and festering corpse, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying 3rd edition D&D. Doubly so for anyone who still plays 2nd edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:This seems extrordinary considering they have the guts to shove 3 sarcophagus fronts and 4 arm variants into the kit but act like we're being evil when we ask for 2 measly parts that are shorter than your pinkie fingernail...

Actually, I've never heard anyone ask that before.

The quandary that is hot dogs and hot dog buns must be quite traumatic to you.

Cryage wrote:

runmymouth wrote:
It's no worst in cost than a video game.

Perhaps, but look at the video game industry, the cost of those games go DOWN.

I mean, SNES games would sell for $60-$100. Chrono Trigger I think was $89 when it first released.

Now, an expensive PC game is $59 and people make more money now than they did 15 years ago.

Chrono Trigger was $44.99 at K-B Toys when it came out or so says the cardboard box mine came in.

As to these pricing threads, I like the nostalgia that pops up in them. Like the $20 for 30 Space Marines or the same for a box of 3 Rhinos that it was back when I started. Back then kids could actually buy their own armies without needing to pester the parents, too much anyway; all they needed was a lawn mower in the summer and a shovel in the winter (back then gas was less so it was a hardly a cost for entrepreneurial child; I remember walking down to the gas station as a kid, filling my gallon jug, giving the clerk a $1, and getting change). Now they still can finance their purchases, but they will have to do far more work for a smaller game. More often, I see the parents providing the money, but I also see fewer kids mowing lawns and shoveling snow now a days (don't know if its the overzealous safety people, laziness, the poor parenting dogma of "bad parents make their kids do things they don't like," or what but the number of children doing manual labor in front of the house has gone down in the past decade considerably).

FashaTheDog wrote:

Cryage wrote:

runmymouth wrote:
It's no worst in cost than a video game.

Perhaps, but look at the video game industry, the cost of those games go DOWN.

I mean, SNES games would sell for $60-$100. Chrono Trigger I think was $89 when it first released.

Now, an expensive PC game is $59 and people make more money now than they did 15 years ago.

Chrono Trigger was $44.99 at K-B Toys when it came out or so says the cardboard box mine came in.

Probably a currency difference. $ is used for CAD as well as USD, and the gap in pricing between your box and his recollection would have been approximately the currency difference from back then (as I remember.)

At any rate, prices increase. I remember from approximately the same period in time ago, a can of soda from a vending machine was about half as expensive as what it is now.

Well for inflation video games have been minimalist. I remember paying around $50 for video games a decade ago. I still pay $50 for a brand new pc game. The only thing that costs more are 360/ps3 new games at $60. This is an exception more than the rule.

runmymouth wrote:Well for inflation video games have been minimalist. I remember paying around $50 for video games a decade ago. I still pay $50 for a brand new pc game. The only thing that costs more are 360/ps3 new games at $60. This is an exception more than the rule.

$50 for video games a decade ago? Wtf? A decade ago video games were $30.

ph34r wrote:

runmymouth wrote:Well for inflation video games have been minimalist. I remember paying around $50 for video games a decade ago. I still pay $50 for a brand new pc game. The only thing that costs more are 360/ps3 new games at $60. This is an exception more than the rule.

$50 for video games a decade ago? Wtf? A decade ago video games were $30.

Which ones? I remember shelling out $50 for Warcraft 2... And others.

if they really wanted sales, they could offer maybe sale weekends or somthing, with like 20-30% price reduction for two days on most things.

Buy this get one half price, start giving out deals.

About 3-4 years ago (maybe) i bought two boxes of orks, some lootas, a killa kan, a big mek leader, codex and some paint and left the store with change lol must have only come to 50-60 pounds.

ph34r wrote:

runmymouth wrote:Well for inflation video games have been minimalist. I remember paying around $50 for video games a decade ago. I still pay $50 for a brand new pc game. The only thing that costs more are 360/ps3 new games at $60. This is an exception more than the rule.

$50 for video games a decade ago? Wtf? A decade ago video games were $30.

No, you're just wrong, either through selective memory or inattention. Just like today, _some_ video games were $30, but any big name game was more than that. I got Dragon Warrior 1 for the NES for $45, and that was on sale. I remember seeing Nintendo games regularly hitting $60 on release. I allotted $100 on games when I bought my PSX, and that got me Resident Evil 2 and Tekken 3 with a little left over.

I really think that on a lot of stuff GW's price is fair - not the infantry boxes mind you, but a lot of the vehicles for sure. If I compare the cost of say a Land Raider to a similarly sized Tamiya 1/35 military tank kit, they are within a few dollars of each other usually (Both can be had online for between 10 and 25 percent off that retail price). A lot of people have argued that the Tamiya model has more detail, but really what they call more detail I call 'fiddly bits that will break the moment they hit a gaming table'... GW models are a bit chunkier because they have to survive the local game store if you want to play with them whereas tamiya kits just have to survive assembly and a plush life on display. The actual casts are just as if not more detailed even if they are chunkier. I also compared a 1/35 Tamiya german trooper to a new Dark Eldar Wych, and the detail quality was astoundingly in GW's favor.

So, as a game, sure GW is pricier than a lot of games... but as far as models (at least vehicles) go they are right at the market level I think. And every new kit seems to be packed with more and more detail and bits. Then again, I approach GW products as a modeller first and a gamer second - so maybe that colors my views.

ph34r wrote:

runmymouth wrote:Well for inflation video games have been minimalist. I remember paying around $50 for video games a decade ago. I still pay $50 for a brand new pc game. The only thing that costs more are 360/ps3 new games at $60. This is an exception more than the rule.

$50 for video games a decade ago? Wtf? A decade ago video games were $30.

Maybe games that were out for 6 months... but new releases were $50ish

I remember Oni being £30-40 at release.

Everyone talks about the cost of things going up; but what about the increase of details or the large supply of bits.

I remember it being next to impossible to get Powerfists or meltas, lightning claws, TH&SS.

As for Dark Eldar being 20 for the similar price to 10; you have your old crappy models - ill take the really cool ones.

And let's not forget the price decreases for plastic; metal bloodchrushers to plastic? Chaos Knights from 85 AUD to 40 when plastic came out?

Nah let's all ignore the info that makes your arguement look bad...

Aeon wrote:Everyone talks about the cost of things going up; but what about the increase of details or the large supply of bits.

I remember it being next to impossible to get Powerfists or meltas, lightning claws, TH&SS.

As for Dark Eldar being 20 for the similar price to 10; you have your old crappy models - ill take the really cool ones.

And let's not forget the price decreases for plastic; metal bloodchrushers to plastic? Chaos Knights from 85 AUD to 40 when plastic came out?

Nah let's all ignore the info that makes your arguement look bad...

See, I'm not arguing there's more quality, but early last year you've had a 25% increase, then on top of that with the fine-cast release yet another price increase.

You still don't get quite all the options required (invaribly half of them.) in any given box.

Also, considering that in fantasy you get lots of boxes of 20 men with ALL the options, why can't 40K get the same privelidge?

And on top of that a lot of kits have spent a long time getting price increases with no new design or even repack... I mean, the 20 DE warriors went from around £10 to £20 in a few years and they were the same old crappy kit.

And there's plenty of examples of this.
When the VAT increase came, rather than eating the extra pennies like most companies, they upped it buy a couple of quid.
Then they randomly increased it buy around another 25% (probably to fund finecast setup).
Then the apparently cheaper finecast models cost more than the supposedly more expensive metals buy about another 25%.
And this is in a single year.

I'll be finishing my collection after Christmas, if a Chaos book comes out I'll get it but I've got enougth.

I noticed GW seems to have massively increased their prices today. $110 for a Bloodthirster, $83 Falcon's, $350 Megaforces (so much for saving any money with these) , $72 Plague Marines (the hell?). Just yesterday everything was fine and this basically ruins my army plans via GW's website. Does anybody know what the deal is? Is this just for the Holidays? If this is a permanent price hike then they've crossed the rubicon as far as I'm concerned and I'm finished with the hobby.

Harriticus wrote:I noticed GW seems to have massively increased their prices today. $110 for a Bloodthirster, $83 Falcon's, $350 Megaforces (so much for saving any money with these) , $72 Plague Marines (the hell?). Just yesterday everything was fine and this basically ruins my army plans via GW's website. Does anybody know what the deal is? Is this just for the Holidays? If this is a permanent price hike then they've crossed the rubicon as far as I'm concerned and I'm finished with the hobby.

Check the country your GW site is set to. I've seen that it sometimes changes to australia or something etc.. which would affect the price total.

Ah yes it seems that for some reason my account set itself to Australia....Has never happened to me before.

Dear god, seeing those kinds of prices truly made me emphasize with Aussies.

Looks like ebays your best bet.

Ive seen deals that get you a tyranid battleforce, broodlord, codex and a hive tyrant for 35 pounds.

opposed to the 130 somthing it would cost in store.

I either buy only from ebay, or from my local store during specials.

Right now, store's running a special for everyone playing in the winter league, 15% off any unit for your army, for the whole duration of the league.

Makes it competitive with internet prices.

Still, for some models the prices don't seem bad. Stormravens, for example, are a kit I would say are correctly priced. Its a huge, complex model, that I can see paying a premium for. However, dreadnoughts... are tiny models that should cost much, much less.

GW's pricing structure makes little to no sense to me.

If you buy from places like the WarStore you get 20% off retail. I'll never buy off GW's site again.

the metal special characters are a bit pricey i guess.

the plastic kits are very cheap.

maybe if youre a kid trying to save up allowance money for this stuff it seems expensive? lol.

it's cheap IMO. you could easily get 1500+ points of space marines for 200 bucks if you use ebay.