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Are the 15mm Zvezda Junkers 87 Stuka the correct scale for Flames of War? The Battlefront planes are 1:144.

Also, after reading through all the articles, I am seeing that though the Germans have the best tanks, due to the high point cost, they may not fulfill my need to field a large tank army. SO, what other countries should I look into to field a army base off of a large number of tanks?

Every country has access to armoured companies. Soviets are the way to go for massed tanks.

Zvesda and Battlefront's aircraft are both 1:144. Some prefer to field 1:100 aircraft though.

Plastic Solider co. will allow you to field a fethload of t34's cheaply. They look nice and you can build both variants with the one kit.

OK, so now that I have an idea about books and armies, my next question is about army colors. Are there specific colors for each unit to be used in a specific period (like mid - late or early - mid)? I notice there is a light brown greman primer spary and a grey greman primer spray. can either be used or are there restrictions? Can I have wild colors like red tanks or Tiger stripped tanks?

Warlord Imp wrote:OK, so now that I have an idea about books and armies, my next question is about army colors. Are there specific colors for each unit to be used in a specific period (like mid - late or early - mid)? I notice there is a light brown greman primer spary and a grey greman primer spray. can either be used or are there restrictions? Can I have wild colors like red tanks or Tiger stripped tanks?

Ultimately, they're your vehicles. If you decide to paint them all hot pink, there's not much that anyone can do about it.

But since this is a game based on historical forces, there are "accurate" and "inaccurate" paint schemes. And most of the information that you need to paint your forces is available publicly. Battlefront also makes a point of providing some basic color scheme information in most of their books. So you can use those as a quick and easy guide.

As for the two German colors, when the war started German vehicles had a grey base color. Early on, the vehicles frequently had a simple camo scheme with large brown blobs over the grey, though this appears to have been abandoned well before the invasion of the USSR began. Midway through 1942, the color changed to "Dunklegelb" - i.e. the yellow/beige color that you frequently see. All new vehicles arrived from the factory in this color, and existing vehicles were painted in the new scheme. The German army also adopted a very complex camo scheme. The exact layout varied from unit to unit, but brown and green were painted over the base yellow. Most people represent the new camo scheme using an airbrush, though if you don't have one you can work around it. I personally use a more simple scheme involving brown and green zig-zag lines. As each unit applied the two colors differently, there's some room for variety in how they're displayed.

DAK vehicles also had their own colors and patterns to match the desert environment, though I don't know exactly when they started using them.

Wasn't Dunklegelb beginning of 1943?

As Eumerin says, the Battlefront books have a section showing different colour schemes and the dates they were introduced. I've gone for the dark grey for my Mid-war Germans, purely to differentiate them from any later war force I might plan to do.

It really is a balance between what you find is aesthetically pleasing and using the correct colours for things. Some FoW players go to great lengths even making sure the correct type of uniform, and antenna are on the correct place on a tank, things like that! I don't go into that level of detail personally, but I can see where they are coming from. A lot of it is part and parcel of why whenever you see people playing FoW you often have 2 painted forces, with really well built and nicely laid out terrain (contrast that with 40k).

Pacific wrote:Wasn't Dunklegelb beginning of 1943?

Could be. The important thing is that it was midway through Mid-War.

/rimshot


The only German lists that I run are Late War anyway, so it's not that big of an issue for me. Though if Battlefront ever makes non-DAK German ATRs (specifically SS) available seperately from the rest of their platoon, I might branch out...

Actually, the really fun stuff is the Romanian kit. The Romanians painted the stuff they made in Olive-Grey. But the stuff that they got from Germany was often left in its original colors. There was a thread on Battlefront's forums not too long ago wondering if the Romanians' lone Late War Panzer III should be painted Dunkelgelb like all of the other German tanks that the Romanians operated, or whether it should be the lone Romanian tank on the battlefield that was Grey.

Vertrucio wrote:The shermans in the box are round hulled shermans, which the British didn't use.

So what? If you are playing anyone who is going to be that anal about it I really feel sorry for you. I have all three of my Open Fire! shermans in my British force. Unless they are one of the upgunned 76mm shermans or a firefly, the regular shermans just aren't different enough except cosmetically for tabletop usage whether worrying about diesel vs. gasoline or cast or welded hull. For game purposes it just doesn't matter because they don't have different stats at all.

Skriker

Skriker wrote:

Vertrucio wrote:The shermans in the box are round hulled shermans, which the British didn't use.

So what? If you are playing anyone who is going to be that anal about it I really feel sorry for you. I have all three of my Open Fire! shermans in my British force. Unless they are one of the upgunned 76mm shermans or a firefly, the regular shermans just aren't different enough except cosmetically for tabletop usage whether worrying about diesel vs. gasoline or cast or welded hull. For game purposes it just doesn't matter because they don't have different stats at all.

Skriker

Battlefront has an article on the different Sherman variants, and who got which ones. You can find it here - http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=813

It appears that the British did get the round-hulled M4A1 version, which they renamed the Sherman II.

Of course I would never refuse to play someone because they have the wrong model of tank or colour scheme, but I always find it pretty cool if they have put in an effort and that level of banality!

Pacific wrote:Of course I would never refuse to play someone because they have the wrong model of tank or colour scheme, but I always find it pretty cool if they have put in an effort and that level of banality!

Can't disagree with that position at all. I guess once I got past the first 3 FoW british lists I put together I got lazy. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Heck I use Sherman IIs painted in desert colors on the table for LW british shermans on the Western Front. I just can't bring myself so buy the same minis all over again just to paint them a different color. My airborne, cromwells and tetrarchs are all based on dark green color schemes, but everything else I have is painted for the desert, including the parts of my forces that only appear in LW lists, but that I also use MW desert painted units for as well. My brits are hardy and even show up to fight on snowy tables on the Eastern front in shorts and shirtsleeves!

Skriker

iirc, the Soviets only received the M4A2 and M4A2(76). So they're pretty easy to deal with. The only other organization that used the M4A2 was the USMC (due to the diesel engine).

I could be wrong, but I think the US Army commonly played mix and match. It didn't particularly matter who had which version, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were even platoons that had both 75mm and 76mm guns in Fall of '44 (new divisions arriving on the continent only had 76mm Shermans, but quickly had them rotated out and replaced with both 75mm and 76mm tanks as they took losses). Also, there were large numbers of M4A3s in Normandy, but Battlefront hasn't released the model and so doesn't mention it in the lists (stats-wise, it's the same as the M4 and M4A1). Hopefully we'll see a figure for it during Bulge.

My understanding is that the British typically tried to equip each unit with a single model of Sherman. The only variation was the addition of one or (later) more Fireflies within a platoon.


As mentioned above, brand new US armored divisions arrived post-Normandy with a full complement of 76mm Shermans. And Eisenhower issued an order instructing that no more 75mm Shermans were to be sent to the continent in February of 1945. But even at the time of Germany's surrender the 75mm tanks still made up a very large percentage if not majority of the M4 tanks in Western Europe.

Is it right for me to feel guilty to buy PSC models? I mean Battlefront made a great game and I would suspect they need support to keep the game going. So, wouldn't purchasing a diiferent companies models eventually bring down the game creators?

Warlord Imp wrote:Is it right for me to feel guilty to buy PSC models? I mean Battlefront made a great game and I would suspect they need support to keep the game going. So, wouldn't purchasing a diiferent companies models eventually bring down the game creators?

Not at all.

In fact, purchasing other 15mm WWII minis helps keep the competition alive and healthy. If Battlefront were to ever try and enforce their minis only, they'd quickly go under. So go right ahead, pick up as many PSC, Peter Pig, Old Glory, etc., minis that you'd like. It helps keep Battlefront's prices reasonable.

Heck, my two armies so far have been Battlefront only figures. I believe they put out quality content, and that they care about their community, so I'm willing to pay their prices (not to mention that it helps a couple of my FLGS's when I order stuff through them). But I'm planning on using PSC and Peter Pig for my Grenadierkompanie.

I buy PSC, and never feel guilty. One thing to consider though when buying PSC or Forged in Battle over Battlefront, is the lack of bases. I buy the BF bases, and actually it wipes out any saving in most cases. Tanks don't need bases so the saving is very real, if you really want to go ultra-cheap and still retain good quality, buy Zvezda 1/100 Vehicles, I know the range is limited (it is slowly expanding), but they are about £2.50 to £3.00 each and you can buy multipack buys online (ebay etc) and save a bit more.

The advantage of PSC is you get lots of little extras, like Jerry Cans which are useful for objectives and making base details.

Warlord Imp wrote:Is it right for me to feel guilty to buy PSC models? I mean Battlefront made a great game and I would suspect they need support to keep the game going. So, wouldn't purchasing a diiferent companies models eventually bring down the game creators?

IIRC Battlefront (unlike GW) let you use 3rd party models in competition/tournaments.

Ok, so going on a buying spree this week. I got a Pazergrenadier Platoon, PSC Stug III Ausf F8/G Box and Mortar Platoon FJ. The Mortar and the Panzergrenadier Platoon I bought because they can be use in Early, Mid and Late Wars. and the Stug G, I figured I would use in my Panzerkompanie. Later this week, I am planning to get the army deal direct from PSC and figuring the delivery from the UK may take a while, I am trying to figure the best way to use the figures I bought. What builds use the Stug III F8/G, Panzergrenadier Platoon and Mortar Platoon FJ (GE765 from Battlefront)?

Warlord Imp wrote:Is it right for me to feel guilty to buy PSC models? I mean Battlefront made a great game and I would suspect they need support to keep the game going. So, wouldn't purchasing a diiferent companies models eventually bring down the game creators?

It depends, to a certain extent.

If you're playing at a local store, then you should try and support your store by buying whichever brand they're carrying. That play space that you get is being paid for by the store, and your purchases help to support that. That's my situation. And since my store stocks Battlefront, that's what I buy.

If you're not relying on a local store for your play area, then do whatever you think is best.

Plastic Soldier company will be your best friend if you like German and Russian tanks my bud

5 tanks for 15 quid.... tasty


Automatically Appended Next Post:
you could even buy the russian tank army set, 21 T-34 or T-34/85's. If you make them all T-34/85's plus tank riders, you got yourself a 1500 point army for like a 100$

Most stores will special order product for you if you ask, many also give a discount for special ordering from them instead of going online.

PSC is available from some US distributors now. I've ordered all my PSC stuff through my store and gotten a small discount for it.

Here's another question, is there a list of product equivalents for the units? I was looking at the German Arsenal list in the back of the Grey Wolf book. I am sure each unit has a product equivalent. Is there a spreadsheet out there that shows that?

For example, can the Panzergrenadier Platoon models be used as equivalents to other units? Can they be used as a Pioneer Platoon or an FJ Platoon or Grenadier Platoon? If yes, does that affect tournament play?

Warlord Imp wrote:Here's another question, is there a list of product equivalents for the units? I was looking at the German Arsenal list in the back of the Grey Wolf book. I am sure each unit has a product equivalent. Is there a spreadsheet out there that shows that?

For example, can the Panzergrenadier Platoon models be used as equivalents to other units? Can they be used as a Pioneer Platoon or an FJ Platoon or Grenadier Platoon? If yes, does that affect tournament play?

Panzer grens and grens generally use the same figures, except one is more mechanized than the other so support vehicles will differ. FJ look different overall, unless you get into late war and are fielding FJ platoons that are wearing standard uniform and helmet styles. The pioneer platoon will include slightly different options from the Panzer grens/grens blisters/company boxes. If you look at the list of blisters and boxes available on the Battlefront website you should be able to easily figure it out without too much difficulty.

YMMV in tournements where WYSIWYG is a bit more hard core for obvious reasons. For my local leagues and games with friends I use my motor platoons and rifle platoons for whatever lists I feel like using them for on the table, just go with consistency. Sometimes if I have multiple large infantry units on the table at once I will give one aussie slouch hat figures and the other standard british stands to make it easier to remember which stands belong to which group, especially when they could get all piled in on the same objective.

Skriker

Ok, so I guess it does make a difference. Now, what about the seasonal outfits. Can I use a Winter Panzergrenadier for any battle not matter what the season (summer) or setting (desert)? Or how about mixing the Winter base figures with the regular figures?

Very few people are that strict that they won't let you use winter troops for other things.

FoW is only historical in theme and generally how the game is played and balanced.

Otherwise, you're not playing and specific battles unless you really want to. So just use the figures you have for your army.

I'd avoid mixing seasonal troops mainly because it looks really bad. But then again, there were some units during the war that weren't all issues cold, or desert uniforms in time, so can be modeled with mixed.

Springtime. Green shoots, mud, the last of the snow, faded winter camo, mixed infantry in white or camo smocks.

Yeah, many a time has my shorts-and-tee-shirt wearing MW brits fought in the eastern front!

Paint them the way you like, you should be alright.

Warlord Imp wrote:Ok, so I guess it does make a difference. Now, what about the seasonal outfits. Can I use a Winter Panzergrenadier for any battle not matter what the season (summer) or setting (desert)? Or how about mixing the Winter base figures with the regular figures?

My brits show up in shorts and shirt sleeves no matter where the battle takes place. As long as they are easily identifiable as to what the stands are I don't know too many people who are worried about it. Some get cranky, but IMO that is their personal problem and not mine.

Skriker

Reading more into Grey Wolf and just had a question on the Panzerkompanie. I know the black boxes ( HQ and 2 Armour Platoons) are required to be in the army. Are we also required to take a Weapons Platoon and a Divisional Support? Or can I do without a Weapons Platoon and just use my Divisional support? Or vice versa?

Yes they're optional, like Elites and Fast Attack choices in 40k.

@Warlord Imp so what's your planned list? If you are struggling my recommendation is to spend a few dollars at this website.

www.EASYARMY.com

It's like Army Builder, but built around FOW. It's cheap, (each book is unlocked for $2) and is really good for planning, making and printing your army lists.