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I have been thinking of getting into FoW for a while now because I love the tanks and tank battles. Now, that I have some left over cash from getting rid of my GW collection, I have the fund to start. So, after reading thru some of the posts, I really could not find anything on building on the Open Fire! starter set. I know V3 will be out next year but I want to start on a Tank Army in preparation of V3. With US and Germany in the starter box, I wanted to go Germany as US seemed more infantry heavy. Now the tanks are for mid- or late-war tanks, so, I was thinking of just getting the Panzerdivision ‘Feldherrnhalle’ Boxed army set. But, I am kind of weary that the tanks in the starter are just for the starter AND the boxed army may not be the way to go. If you guys can help me with what books I should buy berfore I even start building my army. Specifically books/briefings that will help me build an army on the Open Fire! starter tanks. OR should I just skip the Open Fire! starter all together and start with the Panzerdivision ‘Feldherrnhalle’ boxed army and just build on that?

The starter is half Stugs (almost universally usable in most LW German lists) and half Shermans.. (Mostly US, but suitable for some British lists.) This is of course assuming that V3 Open Fire doesn't come with some other mix.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:This is of course assuming that V3 Open Fire doesn't come with some other mix.

That just means more tanks at an affordable price. In my experience with other games, they don't usually change the contents of their starters. But it's good to know the German Tanks are usable in most armies.

Warlord Imp wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:This is of course assuming that V3 Open Fire doesn't come with some other mix.

That just means more tanks at an affordable price. In my experience with other games, they don't usually change the contents of their starters. But it's good to know the German Tanks are usable in most armies.

IIRC you can use the Shermans with the British, Americans, and Soviets.

Rumour has it that a new starter set is in the works. Apparently it will include plastic infantry and tanks and will be released sometime next spring/summer.

Unless you get it cheap Open Fire isn't that much of a deal right now.

The shermans in the box are round hulled shermans, which the British didn't use.

But otherwise, there's always something new on the horizon.

We already know that there is version 3 coming in a few months, so Open Fire is mainly not worth it due to the rules in it being obsolete.

How cheap is cheap? Considering just the price of the Tanks, Should I just start getting tank platoon boxes?

Also, as far as reading material, are there any suggestions? As this is a historical game and army builds probably will not change much even with V3 over the horizon. Maybe start reading up on the panzer kompanies...

Vertrucio wrote:The shermans in the box are round hulled shermans, which the British didn't use.

But otherwise, there's always something new on the horizon.

We already know that there is version 3 coming in a few months, so Open Fire is mainly not worth it due to the rules in it being obsolete.

Not strictly speaking true. The round-hulled Sherman II without sand-shields was used by some British units. Royal Scots Greys being one. It was also the basis for the DD, though with added extras not appearing on the OF version. But generally, yes, its much less common as a Brit tank.

Warlord Imp wrote:How cheap is cheap? Considering just the price of the Tanks, Should I just start getting tank platoon boxes?

Cheaper than it would be to buy five PSC Shermans or five PSC StugIIIs, so about £15 IMO.

The PSC StuGs and Shermans are far superior to the open fire ones. The rulebook will be worthless within two months. You do get five nice German and American dice with it though. Personally I think a box of PSC tanks is better value.

Thanks to other posters I learned that PSC is bringing out plastic tigers in the spring - 5 for £15. Given that in some lists a tiger is around 300 points each, it's so easy to build on a budget. Combine the tigers with cheap infantry box set and you have an easy 1500 point army for £30. It might not be the best tactically, but it's cheap, it's fun, and there are very few things on the western front that can match a tiger.

Both Tigers and Panthers are about 200 points each.There are multiple tank lists in FoW that use one or both of these as combat platoons (equivalent of Troops choices in 40k).

Most of these lists tend to be made up in the following format: 'several big cats' + infantry platoon + nebs = 1,500 to 2,000 point army.

Even at 200 points, it's great value. 1 HQ choice = 200 points, and two platoons of 2 tanks @ 400 per platoon. An easy 1000 points for around £15. The day GW does that is the day I move to Texas!!!

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Even at 200 points, it's great value. 1 HQ choice = 200 points, and two platoons of 2 tanks @ 400 per platoon. An easy 1000 points for around £15.

Quite true. I'm building a Panzerregiment Bake list in January. All I need is a box of PSC Panther's to add to what I've got and I'm good to go.

I have a suspicion that the Tiger may not be 5 to a box, it being a larger beast. Don't quote me on that, I may be wrong.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I have a suspicion that the Tiger may not be 5 to a box, it being a larger beast. Don't quote me on that, I may be wrong.

If the Panthers are I'll bet good money the Tigers are. Tigers are smaller than Panthers. They may be a quid or so more money.

WOW! Looking at the Plastic Soldier Company website and the German army deal looks really good for £75. That's alot of mini's. As a new player, is that an over investment?

One thing that you'll need is a book full of army lists. Since you're interested in playing Germans, there are worse things that you could do than to get the brand new book, Grey Wolf. Grey Wolf has German lists for the Eastern Front for pretty much all of 1944. And the book is written with V3 in mind - to the point where some of the special rules have been rewritten in an obvious attempt to make them match up with V3.

You may want to consider it as your first purchase.

Eumerin wrote:One thing that you'll need is a book full of army lists. Since you're interested in playing Germans, there are worse things that you could do than to get the brand new book, Grey Wolf. Grey Wolf has German lists for the Eastern Front for pretty much all of 1944. And the book is written with V3 in mind - to the point where some of the special rules have been rewritten in an obvious attempt to make them match up with V3.

You may want to consider it as your first purchase.

Will do. Thanks, finally some good reading material.

George Spiggott wrote:Both Tigers and Panthers are about 200 points each.

If you play mid-war, the Tigers are closer to 400pts! But, obviously they are nasty as hell.

I would recommend the Peter Pig Tiger if you wanted to get one, they have a lovely level of detail, and being made of metal are satisfyingly heavy to hold as you rumble them around the battlefield

Pacific wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:Both Tigers and Panthers are about 200 points each.

If you play mid-war, the Tigers are closer to 400pts! But, obviously they are nasty as hell.

I would recommend the Peter Pig Tiger if you wanted to get one, they have a lovely level of detail, and being made of metal are satisfyingly heavy to hold as you rumble them around the battlefield

Amen. I have a pair of Pig Tigs, and a PzIV as a command tank for my PSC PZIVs, just because the chunkiness makes it stand out just enough.

so the PSC army deal has 130 infantry, 15 251/D halftracks and 10 panzer ivs. That seems to be alot of infantry. Would I be using that many bodies? Should I just buy tank box sets since I want a tank heavy army. How many points would that come up to?

I have Grey Wolf on order and just counting the days for it to arrive. So I can figure army builds.

You certainly will be using the vast majority of those men, but I'm not sure about the tanks. A normal panzergrenadier list allows one support platoon of up to 5 pzIV's, and if you used a Panzer list, you would only usually be able to take one platoon of halftrack-mounted dudes. So generally i can't see you using all of the halftracks and tanks in one go. Unless you ran a panzer list and took one halftrack platoon as a pioneer unit or something.

German infantry are usually about 20 to 30 models per platoon. Unless you're fielding a Panzer list you'll need a minimum of two platoons of infantry. Both those army deals contain one box of PSC German infantry.

Here are some example lists using Grey Wolf and the Plastic Soldier Company Panzerkompanie deal.

Panzerkompanie

HQ
2 Panzer IV H - 180

Combat Platoons
4 Panzer IV H - 360
4 Panzer IV H - 360

Support Platoons
Gepanzerete Panzergrenadier Platoon (4 251/1 & 30 infantry) - 220

Total = 1,120

Leaves you with 11 spare 251/1s and 100 spare infantry.

Gepanzerete Panzergrenadierkompanie

HQ
2 251/1 & 6 infantry - 65

Combat Platoons
Gepanzerete Panzergrenadier Platoon (4 251/1 & 30 infantry) - 220
Gepanzerete Panzergrenadier Platoon (4 251/1 & 30 infantry) - 220
Gepanzerete Panzergrenadier Platoon (4 251/1 & 30 infantry) - 220

Support Platoons
5 Panzer IV H - 450

Total = 1,175

Leaves you with 5 spare Panzer IV, 1 spare 251/1 and 34 spare infantry. The 251/1 and the infantry will probably find use in your army. The five spare Panzer IVs will only be of use if you reform your army as a Panzerkompanie or play big (multi company) battles.

Given that the Panzer IVs are essentially free with this deal it's not all that bad. You can run either list or swap between (as many of the Panzerkompanie options can be fielded in a Panzergrenadierkompanie and vice-versa) giving you a very flexible base for your army.

You'll also need some plasticard or a pack of Battlefront bases.

That really helps make my decision. Most likely will get that deal. I have plenty of plasticard but maybe shell out for some special bases for my HQ's.

Ok. FoW bases are 1.5mm (.060") thick if you want your plasticard bases to be the same depth.

You may also want to check out other manufacturers for specialist infantry such as Panzerfausts, mortar teams and so on to add to your infantry.

What other manufacturers are there?

Incidentally, the PSC SDKFZ D come with a panzershreck on each sprue, which struck me as being useful to convert the infantry. Peter Pig infantry seem to be the most suitable scale-wise.

For the UK Tanks, which is better M4A1 or M4A2 Sherman tanks?

Warlord Imp wrote:For the UK Tanks, which is better M4A1 or M4A2 Sherman tanks?

From what little I have seen, I must say that Fireflies,Churchill Crocodiles, and Churchills VII . Are some of the better British tanks I have seen.

Command Decision are a good choice if you want a bunch of cheap panzerfaust/schreck guys to upgrade your command teams.
M4A1 shermans would probably be the standard for british lists. Then grab FOW fireflys to add to the platoon.