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The story in the IG Codex about the DKoK shelling a hive for ten years was pretty OTT... since it was implied that they had surrendered about five years before the bombardment's end and all life was gone two years before. Seems like a massive waste of ammunition/guardsmen just sitting about idly.

But naw, had to be GRIMDARK.

Just like when Abaddon launched the first assault on Cadia upon an orphanage for disadvantaged kittens.

Henners91 wrote:The story in the IG Codex about the DKoK shelling a hive for ten years was pretty OTT... since it was implied that they had surrendered about five years before the bombardment's end and all life was gone two years before. Seems like a massive waste of ammunition/guardsmen just sitting about idly.

But naw, had to be GRIMDARK.

Just like when Abaddon launched the first assault on Cadia upon an orphanage for disadvantaged kittens.

Wait what?

Read the Horus Heresy series... that's not a parody, not even a subtle.

Prospero Burns is "Eaters of the Dead" also known in film form as "The Thirteenth Warrior".

First Heretic says that the Emperor struck a deal with the chaos gods to make the Primarchs and didn't give his gift back.

Thats the story of Prometheus... man is given fire and does not give it back.

The HH novels are full of parody.

The reason I like the Warhammer 40k universe is that it is SO hyperbolic. Everything is taken to 11 and is always life or death. Like a good brainless action movie, the stories are fun to read because they are so extreme. That's just my opinion though.

I did get tired of the Grey Knight stories because they had too much Chaos and deamon weirdness.

DeffDred wrote:

Read the Horus Heresy series... that's not a parody, not even a subtle.

Prospero Burns is "Eaters of the Dead" also known in film form as "The Thirteenth Warrior".

First Heretic says that the Emperor struck a deal with the chaos gods to make the Primarchs and didn't give his gift back.

Thats the story of Prometheus... man is given fire and does not give it back.

The HH novels are full of parody.

That's not a "parody", that's an inspiration. A parody is when you take something that's been established and portray it in a similar but less serious light, I.E. Tina Fey impersonating Sarah Palin.

Simply drawing inspiration from something isn't making a parody of it.

BlaxicanX wrote:How about I say what I want, and you go cry yourself to sleep elsewhere?

BlaxicanX wrote:How about I say what I want, and you go cry yourself to sleep elsewhere?

How about you stay on topic and don't antagonize people? Rude.

The fluff in the codices tends to be more tongue in cheek than the stories in BL novels, true.

Wish I understood all this British humour you americans are going on about...

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:I think Grimdark is best described as "Nietzsche read in the style of Red Dwarf."

Not Nietzsche. His writing isn't actually dark. Your description is brilliant, but more fitting to use by example August Strindberg.

Brother SRM wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:How about I say what I want, and you go cry yourself to sleep elsewhere?

How about you stay on topic and don't antagonize people? Rude.

I'll "not antagonize people" when they don't antagonize me, first. lol. I didn't ask the guy to quote me and cry about Matt Ward hate.

I still like the tone of the Caiaphas Cain novels, maybe a little darker, but that level of dark humor and ridiculous situations.

BlaxicanX wrote:
On the other hand, the 40K verse is losing a lot of its "parody" status. Read the Horus Heresy series... that's not a parody, not even a subtle. It's pretty damn deep, and dramatic and depressing, lol.

It's only the codex fluff that's somewhat grimdawk, imo.

Well, Black Library never really was in tune with mainstream 40K. There was even a Dan Abnett Interview some time again about how BL had a big row with GW a few years back on how "faithful" they had to be with the core material, with BL arguing that "what works in a game may not work in a novel and vice versa" vs. GW's "IP coherence". They sort of settled that BL would be "their own interpretation of the IP".

Also, BL is sort of a home for the elderly 3rd and early 4th edition writers, when GW-main also tried to be less ironic/parody and play it more serious.

Anyhow, noone is denying that there have been people who tried to approach "grimdark" with a straigth face, both inside GW, its various subsedies (FW also has a strong "grimdark but serious" instinct on occassion) and beyond. But the Rogue Trader origins were more tongue-in-cheek and 5th edition certainly went all out to lose some of the stuck-up pretentiousness that infected 3rd edition above all.

Yes it can be too grimdark.
Is it not that GW and Black Library have started to take themselves too seriously?

Well, as said. I think Black Library is a special case.

I am not a writer, but I imagine it would be quite difficult to build a more or less coherent story, develop characters, urgency and action, while also continously keeping that undercurrent of irony going all the time (yet never diving fully into Douglas Adams-style comedy either). Its more "fitting" doing that in short paragraphs or those famous 40K "quotes" which depict single situation/faction/opinions, while also referencing half-serious/half-humorously some non-40K source or inspiration.

It's the nature of the medium of a "book" or "story", which almost by definition gives BL a different "flavour" than mainstream GW.

Attempted Grim Dark is just as awkward as drag queens.

They can try, but it wont be natural .....

I thought Gaunts ghosts was grkim and dark. Every story ends in a good, but also bad way.

Am I the only one who saw the typo in the thread title and thought, "To Grimdark and BEYOND!"?

...Thought so. I chuckled, at least...

azazel the cat wrote:

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:I think Grimdark is best described as "Nietzsche read in the style of Red Dwarf."

Not Nietzsche. His writing isn't actually dark. Your description is brilliant, but more fitting to use by example August Strindberg.

Okay, Grimdark is August Strindberg read in the style of Red Dwarf.

Cheexsta wrote:Am I the only one who saw the typo in the thread title and thought, "To Grimdark and BEYOND!"?

...Thought so. I chuckled, at least...

My response to this thread was originally going to be:-
"Yes. As in retiring from a night out, hailing a taxi and exclaiming to the driver "Onwards, my good fellow! Onwards, to Grimdark!"

But, I didn't really want to tease the OP over a teensy little mistake. And then you had to bring it up.

Pumpkin wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:Am I the only one who saw the typo in the thread title and thought, "To Grimdark and BEYOND!"?

...Thought so. I chuckled, at least...

My response to this thread was originally going to be:-
"Yes. As in retiring from a night out, hailing a taxi and exclaiming to the driver "Onwards, my good fellow! Onwards, to Grimdark!"

But, I didn't really want to tease the OP over a teensy little mistake. And then you had to bring it up.

I see it , I was really tired and at the tame time up on caffeine, so I was not really sensible when making this post.

It's like the "they're/their/there" and "you're/your" thing, mixed up all the time and usually politely ignored until someone comes along to grade the post like a lately submitted English essay.

AngryMarine wrote:This is why there are Angry Marines.

Angry Marines are a poor mans humour...

Well, as far as left-wing protestors getting the snot beat out of them by the Adeptus Arbites....


... sometimes, art imitates life, and sometimes life imitates art. If that's "too grimdark" to you, then don't watch the news about ongoing police riots at the OWS protests or read anything at all about, say, the National Guard response at Kent State, or the Stonewall riots of 1969.

That the Arbites crushed a protest held by Imperial citizens is not "too grimdark", it's extremely fitting and appropriate to the setting. The Imperium is not a democracy. Your civil rights are secondary to the planet's need to produce materials for the war effort.

It's a dictatorship. This is what dictatorships do. They crush internal opposition, they enact measures that ensure the populace is too terrified of retribution to rise up in revolt, and they direct that energy towards an external enemy.

purplefood wrote:

AngryMarine wrote:This is why there are Angry Marines.

Angry Marines are a poor mans humour...

Yeah, well so's your face!

If you want to make 40k really grimdark, they should copy game of thrones. All the ultramarines should die horrible, tragic deaths until there's almost none left.

Off-topic but, most of the people in GoT who die, die because they're stupid, and are actually very, very terrible at playing the Game of Thrones. Politics is no game for idealists to be playing.

As Cersei told Ned Stark, "In this game, you win or you die."

Kaldor wrote:

purplefood wrote:

AngryMarine wrote:This is why there are Angry Marines.

Angry Marines are a poor mans humour...

Yeah, well so's your face!

Old meme is old.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

purplefood wrote:

AngryMarine wrote:This is why there are Angry Marines.

Angry Marines are a poor mans humour...

Yeah, well so's your face!

Old meme is old.

You're not my real mom!

Kaldor wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

purplefood wrote:

AngryMarine wrote:This is why there are Angry Marines.

Angry Marines are a poor mans humour...

Yeah, well so's your face!

Old meme is old.

You're not my real mom!

Is that your...final answer?

Pumpkin wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

purplefood wrote:

AngryMarine wrote:This is why there are Angry Marines.

Angry Marines are a poor mans humour...

Yeah, well so's your face!

Old meme is old.

You're not my real mom!

Is that your...final answer?

Kaldor, I am your mother. Now go to your room.