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pretre wrote:

Tomb King wrote:Lol it might be player skill playing in there some. As I claim I am undefeated with my Tau but they havent won a GT in....
The sisters are really good but they lack long range fire power and rely on faith that isnt unpredictable and not as good as it used to be.

Yeah, but I'm a more mediocre player and have a very high win/loss with SoB.

I wish Rankings HQ displayed win/loss percentages and such.

Wait a tick I dont even know what the Rankings HQ is so that already makes you better then me so none of that nonsense talk. Btw what is that... link please.

It is a ranking site based on tournament data submitted. Ranks players, armies, etc in a region.

http://rankingshq.com/public/playerprofile.aspx?PlayerId=18933
You are 1429

http://rankingshq.com/public/playerprofile.aspx?PlayerId=20605
I'm rated 1165!

Of course, we only have 1 tournament each, so our results are kinda irrelevant.

Here's the US:
http://rankingshq.com/rankings/default.aspx?GameSystemId=3&RegionId=13

pretre wrote:It is a ranking site based on tournament data submitted. Ranks players, armies, etc in a region.

http://rankingshq.com/public/playerprofile.aspx?PlayerId=18933
You are 1429

http://rankingshq.com/public/playerprofile.aspx?PlayerId=20605
I'm rated 1165!

Of course, we only have 1 tournament each, so our results are kinda irrelevant.

Here's the US:
http://rankingshq.com/rankings/default.aspx?GameSystemId=3&RegionId=13

Nice I guess they only count GT's as ard boyz might had gotten me some points . That is what I get for messing around on the back half of a GT. At least im on the board haha. Now that I know they have a ranking system I have to really try... dam my competitive nature

Btw see I told you. You are better then me by nearly 250 spots.

Tomb King wrote: Thanks I appreciate it. I am a self-proclaimed slayer of all GK players after my loss at AB finals to draigowing. I might have got that wrong on the list I did it from memory. Army builder is really bad with grey knights as it will let you build illegal list without flagging them. So if he did I could see how it could be easily mistaken.

What a bummer. You definitely had the tools to annihilate his army, but I guess Zagman pulled off the upset.

pretre wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I might think about the dominions for cover but they are just so good outflanking or bum rushing a landraider. If I dont have cover in my deployment zone I will try it.

I think more important than cover is the fact that you have a turn 1 serious threat in their face and they have to deal with that. Should they shoot the Immos that are smoked or the things behind them? It makes them make some tough choices turn 1 and no choice is a good one. Even if they pop the immos, you have dominions in Melta range. If they ignore the immos, you have MM and Doms in melta range. If they are worrying about the Doms, they are ignoring your Exos and squishy bits. Not to mention Celestine and Uriah will be assaulting soon.

I love making people make tough choices.

MTO (maximum threat overload) Battle Sisters?

After having played against them many times with the older codex and a few times with the newer one, I am of the opinion that they got a little weaker. But that may be because my TAC lists are designed to be able to handle MSU mech-heavy armies with up to 12 vehicles at 2K. Besides 1 game where my guards got destroyed by the SoB's at 1K, I haven't really had too much problems with the new SoB's. But maybe that's just me.

Tomb King wrote:
Nice I guess they only count GT's as ard boyz might had gotten me some points . That is what I get for messing around on the back half of a GT. At least im on the board haha. Now that I know they have a ranking system I have to really try... dam my competitive nature

Btw see I told you. You are better then me by nearly 250 spots.

Actually, they count what the TO's submit. Our AB Semi-finals was submitted so is included in my rankings, but not the Preliminaries and Finals.

So if you want a tournament to count towards your records, make sure to "push" your TO into submitting the results of his tournament.

pretre wrote:

jy2 wrote:Good wins, especially coming from a "nerfed" army.

This is a joke locally for a lot of us, since Sisters have been kicking arse competively. In fact, every time I finish a game with a win it usually ends in one or more people saying 'Wow, big upset there with the GK/Guard/whatever army losing. After all, the internet says Sisters are bad.'

The SoB can field as good a 1,500-point list as any codex. Many can't touch the SoB at that level. It doesn't really get stronger at higher levels, although there is still a little good stuff to add, it just isn't as good as the core (Dominions, Exorcists, Urriah and Conclave).

I think GW could make it an absolutely killer codex with one more entry or a small change to the Canoness entry; add a special character that made Celestians troops or change the Canoness to do it. Just making them scoring would go a long way towards helping with bigger lists.

Of course, if there were some variety, some alternative builds that didn't actually suck, that would be great too.

pzbw7z wrote:

pretre wrote:

jy2 wrote:Good wins, especially coming from a "nerfed" army.

This is a joke locally for a lot of us, since Sisters have been kicking arse competively. In fact, every time I finish a game with a win it usually ends in one or more people saying 'Wow, big upset there with the GK/Guard/whatever army losing. After all, the internet says Sisters are bad.'

The SoB can field as good a 1,500-point list as any codex. Many can't touch the SoB at that level. It doesn't really get stronger at higher levels, although there is still a little good stuff to add, it just isn't as good as the core (Dominions, Exorcists, Urriah and Conclave).

I think GW could make it an absolutely killer codex with one more entry or a small change to the Canoness entry; add a special character that made Celestians troops or change the Canoness to do it. Just making them scoring would go a long way towards helping with bigger lists.

Of course, if there were some variety, some alternative builds that didn't actually suck, that would be great too.

Yes I dont like that I am stuck with 10 battle sisters no matter what and if I dont like it well thats tough because thats all the core I get and thats how they come. haha. Main thing I want is more variety in the faith.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:

Tomb King wrote: Thanks I appreciate it. I am a self-proclaimed slayer of all GK players after my loss at AB finals to draigowing. I might have got that wrong on the list I did it from memory. Army builder is really bad with grey knights as it will let you build illegal list without flagging them. So if he did I could see how it could be easily mistaken.

What a bummer. You definitely had the tools to annihilate his army, but I guess Zagman pulled off the upset.

pretre wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I might think about the dominions for cover but they are just so good outflanking or bum rushing a landraider. If I dont have cover in my deployment zone I will try it.

I think more important than cover is the fact that you have a turn 1 serious threat in their face and they have to deal with that. Should they shoot the Immos that are smoked or the things behind them? It makes them make some tough choices turn 1 and no choice is a good one. Even if they pop the immos, you have dominions in Melta range. If they ignore the immos, you have MM and Doms in melta range. If they are worrying about the Doms, they are ignoring your Exos and squishy bits. Not to mention Celestine and Uriah will be assaulting soon.

I love making people make tough choices.

MTO (maximum threat overload) Battle Sisters?

After having played against them many times with the older codex and a few times with the newer one, I am of the opinion that they got a little weaker. But that may be because my TAC lists are designed to be able to handle MSU mech-heavy armies with up to 12 vehicles at 2K. Besides 1 game where my guards got destroyed by the SoB's at 1K, I haven't really had too much problems with the new SoB's. But maybe that's just me.

Tomb King wrote:
Nice I guess they only count GT's as ard boyz might had gotten me some points . That is what I get for messing around on the back half of a GT. At least im on the board haha. Now that I know they have a ranking system I have to really try... dam my competitive nature

Btw see I told you. You are better then me by nearly 250 spots.

Actually, they count what the TO's submit. Our AB Semi-finals was submitted so is included in my rankings, but not the Preliminaries and Finals.

So if you want a tournament to count towards your records, make sure to "push" your TO into submitting the results of his tournament.

lol, what I had was a giant LoS blocking wall for him to get cover from the whole game. I made the mistake of not bum rushing him but it is what it is. You learn from every game.

So they have no standard for reporting then for that website? The TO could just report a tournament of 5-10 people?

jy2 wrote:MTO (maximum threat overload) Battle Sisters?

Exactly. That's how I play them at least. Basically any matchup that involves power armor or TDA is good for me, which is a lot of them.

Tomb King wrote: So they have no standard for reporting then for that website? The TO could just report a tournament of 5-10 people?

They could, but the site has a sliding scale for the type of event (# of rounds and size) as to how many points you get.

The ranking for each player is calculated by adding their best four (4) scores over the last 12 months. The maximum a player can score out of a single tournament is 100 points, and that is done by winning an event that has 60 players or more.

Tournaments require 5 rounds or more to qualify for the total points allocation, events with 4 rounds score 80% of the total and events with 3 score 60% of the total.

The best army general icons are worked out by adding the best three (3) scores a player gains using that army over the last 12 months.

pretre wrote:

jy2 wrote:MTO (maximum threat overload) Battle Sisters?

Exactly. That's how I play them at least. Basically any matchup that involves power armor or TDA is good for me, which is a lot of them.

Tomb King wrote: So they have no standard for reporting then for that website? The TO could just report a tournament of 5-10 people?

They could, but the site has a sliding scale for the type of event (# of rounds and size) as to how many points you get.

The ranking for each player is calculated by adding their best four (4) scores over the last 12 months. The maximum a player can score out of a single tournament is 100 points, and that is done by winning an event that has 60 players or more.

Tournaments require 5 rounds or more to qualify for the total points allocation, events with 4 rounds score 80% of the total and events with 3 score 60% of the total.

The best army general icons are worked out by adding the best three (3) scores a player gains using that army over the last 12 months.

It appears for the one event I did that they applied the painting and such to the rankings as Marc won the overall award he wasnt the best general as he had one loss. Are other tournaments on there like that or is it best general for most tournaments. I got 17th at the event but got ranked in the 30's after the painting which tbh was done the night before (surprise orders for the army leading up to the event).

It depends on the event. Generally they post their best overall results though.

Tomb King wrote: It appears for the one event I did that they applied the painting and such to the rankings as Marc won the overall award he wasnt the best general as he had one loss. Are other tournaments on there like that or is it best general for most tournaments. I got 17th at the event but got ranked in the 30's after the painting which tbh was done the night before (surprise orders for the army leading up to the event).

I believe they apply whatever the TO submits. That means that in most comped events, painting and sportsmanship counts towards the final tally as the TO usually submits the overall score and not just the Best General. Best thing to do is check with your TO which results is he submitting or if he is submitting at all (this may require you to persuade him if he's never heard of RankingsHQ before).

I guess you could submit your own tournament results. As Petre said, it is on a sliding scale. The more people in the tournament, the more points it is worth. I'm not sure the exact formula they use, but maybe it is on their website. Also, it is a running total so the more tournaments you attend, the higher your rankings will be.

Awesome battle report. Thanks for sharing, and congrats for your victories! Faith Unfailing!

Tomb King wrote:They had to commandeer the rhino's after game one to continue the fight on MacArthur. I havent gotten around to getting all the rhino's for my SoB assembled yet so i had to borrow some from my CSM army.

I'm sure it was properly sanctified and de-dildoed.

pretre wrote:This is a joke locally for a lot of us, since Sisters have been kicking arse competively.

Without Celestine and the Conclave, too?
Because I don't really consider something that relies on a Saint and/or Ecclesiarchy clerics to be a pure "Sisters" army.

I'd be very interested in battle reports or even just experiences about an SoB army without special characters, though.

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:This is a joke locally for a lot of us, since Sisters have been kicking arse competively.

Without Celestine and the Conclave, too?
Because I don't really consider something that relies on a Saint and/or Ecclesiarchy clerics to be a pure "Sisters" army.

I'd be very interested in battle reports or even just experiences about an SoB army without special characters, though.

Of course not... I'm not interested in pure though. I've always had redemtionist and/or ecclesiarchy in my sisters going back to 3rd. Special character stigma has faded quite some time ago for most folks since they are available without restriction and explicitly allow you to re-fluff them for your armies.

pretre wrote:

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:This is a joke locally for a lot of us, since Sisters have been kicking arse competively.

Without Celestine and the Conclave, too?
Because I don't really consider something that relies on a Saint and/or Ecclesiarchy clerics to be a pure "Sisters" army.

I'd be very interested in battle reports or even just experiences about an SoB army without special characters, though.

Of course not... I'm not interested in pure though. I've always had redemtionist and/or ecclesiarchy in my sisters going back to 3rd. Special character stigma has faded quite some time ago for most folks since they are available without restriction and explicitly allow you to re-fluff them for your armies.

Man, if we got redemptionists back, I would be so happy. I have 60+ cawdor and redemptionist models from chapter approved just waiting to go! Now that was an awesome codex (chapter approved sob)!!!

During game two you write that conclave are pinned after transport explosion but just the turn after they can charge an ennemy unit. How is it possible ?

tetsuo666 wrote:During game two you write that conclave are pinned after transport explosion but just the turn after they can charge an ennemy unit. How is it possible ?

We actually covered this earlier in the thread. When they are pinned for emergency disembarking it is just for that player turn. So if I emergency disembark in his turn I am back up and fine when my turn starts. There is no real negative effect to having to emergency disembark.

Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:Man, if we got redemptionists back, I would be so happy. I have 60+ cawdor and redemptionist models from chapter approved just waiting to go! Now that was an awesome codex (chapter approved sob)!!!

Ditto. I have a ton of redemptionists, goliaths and other necros that are currently just making up my foot guard army. I even have about 10 eviscerator zealots that I don't really use for anything. I used to run 2 big mobs in 3rd edition and they were brutal with the WBB act, the little flamers and Divine Guidance. Ahh, good times.

pretre wrote:

Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:Man, if we got redemptionists back, I would be so happy. I have 60+ cawdor and redemptionist models from chapter approved just waiting to go! Now that was an awesome codex (chapter approved sob)!!!

Ditto. I have a ton of redemptionists, goliaths and other necros that are currently just making up my foot guard army. I even have about 10 eviscerator zealots that I don't really use for anything. I used to run 2 big mobs in 3rd edition and they were brutal with the WBB act, the little flamers and Divine Guidance. Ahh, good times.

You could substitute the 10 zealots with eviscerators as repentia sisters. I know you feel about the above I cant stand when they take models out of an army because then your stuck with models that are no longer viable. Changing options in a codex is fine. Removing them completely... thats a bit different and sucks if you invested heavily in the removed unit.

Two questions. What is your opinion on the Rets? I always looked at it like this: 12 shots, 8 hits, 1 rend. That makes shooting at vehicles pretty pointless, IF you have faith to spare and pass the check.

How would you try to deal with, say, Tyranids or Orks? Without flamers I can't help but think you would have a hard time, and while the Rets would help there I wonder if it is enough.

Tomb King wrote:You could substitute the 10 zealots with eviscerators as repentia sisters. I know you feel about the above I cant stand when they take models out of an army because then your stuck with models that are no longer viable. Changing options in a codex is fine. Removing them completely... thats a bit different and sucks if you invested heavily in the removed unit.

I was doing that until I got actual repentia models in a trade. The repentia are prettier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@The Grog: I'll let TK take this one, but if you don't like his answer, ask again and I'll tell you how I do it.

The Grog wrote:Two questions. What is your opinion on the Rets? I always looked at it like this: 12 shots, 8 hits, 1 rend. That makes shooting at vehicles pretty pointless, IF you have faith to spare and pass the check.

The faith issue is a liability, but it's important to remember that you can make the roll before you declare your target. That way if your act doesn't work, you don't waste shots on a vehicle you can't hurt.

You're totally wrong about shooting at vehicles being pointless. That 1 rend is all you need. S5 rending means a minimum penetration of 12. So the one rend has already penetrated AV11 and glanced AV12. With the act, a Retributor squad is more likely to penetrate against AV11, AV12, and AV13 than an Exorcist. And it's just as likely to penetrate AV11 as a Rifleman Dread.

The downsides vs the Exorcist are 12" less range, can't move or fire, and lack of AP1, but at the same time, you (usually) can't one-shot a Retributor squad and they cost 50pts less. I think it's totally ok, to drop your 3rd Exorcist for a Ret squad if you need the points, or if you want a high volume of fire attack. Especially in the 1500 - 1750 point level.

The Grog wrote:Two questions. What is your opinion on the Rets? I always looked at it like this: 12 shots, 8 hits, 1 rend. That makes shooting at vehicles pretty pointless, IF you have faith to spare and pass the check.

How would you try to deal with, say, Tyranids or Orks? Without flamers I can't help but think you would have a hard time, and while the Rets would help there I wonder if it is enough.

Why I run the rets:
1. Durability : as you saw in game three my exorcist got blown up turn 1 in 1 shot. My rets lived to see the end of the grey knights.
2. Anti-horde: I run melta heavy sisters and they can really help if I face orks or nids and have to deal with mass numbers.
3. Cost: They are a cheaper in most cases then the other heavy support options.
4. If you run them and you want them to be anti-tank you have to run the imperalis in there so you can re-roll the faith in addition I give a storm bolter to the sgt for 3 pts. So if I have a full squad that is:
12 HB S5 rending
7-12 Bolter S4 Rending
S4 Rending can still glance a rhino automatically on a 6.
5. I like the idea of them they are fun.

Tomb King wrote:

tetsuo666 wrote:During game two you write that conclave are pinned after transport explosion but just the turn after they can charge an ennemy unit. How is it possible ?

We actually covered this earlier in the thread. When they are pinned for emergency disembarking it is just for that player turn. So if I emergency disembark in his turn I am back up and fine when my turn starts. There is no real negative effect to having to emergency disembark.

So if i follow what you told :
transport wreck, pinned test failed : you are pinned during your next turn
transport wreck, surrounded by ennemy, emergency disembark so pinned : you can move as usual during your next turn

I think there is a problem. When a unit is pinned, it can't do anything during next turn.

pretre wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:Got it, I forgot the wording on ED was actually quite terrible. Meaning there is no disadvantage at all for ED'ing if you go first in a game, so why not always ED so you can arbitrarily place your models.

Yeah, I have never realized that before either.
Also keep in mind that ED says 'turn' and page 9 says that means Player Turn when not specified. So ED never lasts past the current player's turn. So basically, it is just to prevent you from ED'ing during your own turn and then trying to do something.

tetsuo666 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

tetsuo666 wrote:During game two you write that conclave are pinned after transport explosion but just the turn after they can charge an ennemy unit. How is it possible ?

We actually covered this earlier in the thread. When they are pinned for emergency disembarking it is just for that player turn. So if I emergency disembark in his turn I am back up and fine when my turn starts. There is no real negative effect to having to emergency disembark.

So if i follow what you told :
transport wreck, pinned test failed : you are pinned during your next turn
transport wreck, surrounded by ennemy, emergency disembark so pinned : you can move as usual during your next turn

I think there is a problem. When a unit is pinned, it can't do anything during next turn.

Alright we can go through this again I enjoy helping others with rules to further smooth playing. I will show you the page, paragraph, and sentence to read to get the ruling. I believe it was faqed in the basic rulebook faq that if something says just turn it means only that player turn per page 9.

First: Go to page 67 of the rulebook. Read the 2nd to last sentence in the first paragraph of disembarking.
Second: Refer to page 9 & Read the paragraph in the top right about game turns and player turns.

Given both of the above if my unit emergency disembarks and gets pinned in his player turn then when that turns ends my unit is no longer pinned. Its rules as written and reinforced with faq to clarify turn = player turn.

If you read pg 67. The unit cant do anything for the rest of that turn but they are not pinned it is just similar to being pinned but only last 1 game turn. Theoretically RAW they cant even fight back if assaulted but usually an emergency disembark will happen after an assault so you wont have to worry about that.

pzbw7z wrote:Dominion squads can use their smoke launchers in the Scout movement phase to provide cover for the rest of your army. I think this is preferable given the unreliability of reserves. But then, I always have three Dominions and three Exorcists to even out their performance.

I always scout, me and outflanking never get along LOL.