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Pretty sure a daemon prince of noarmorsave's description was already killed by the gk twice. Ghargatuloth I think his name was. Oh and didnt Angron lose to Logan while Morty was killed by Draigo? Also the deal with fluff armor is everyone whos a protagonist has it sooo using that as an arguement for them falling is ridiculous unless you someone here knows the "real" characters mentioned.

1hadhq wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:The following are my thoughts on the subject. You can take it and run with it, or do what you want with it. It is the way things are as I see them.

I completely disagree that Grey Knights can't be corrupted. I say they are extremely resistant to being corrupted by Chaos, but it is still possible, and will certainly happen in time.

#1 - Half of the Primarchs were corrupted by Chaos. You can argue all you want about how\why this happened, but the Primarchs were like demigods, second only to the Emperor.
Chaos still found a way to get to them. This also includes Magnus the Red, who's psychic powers are second only to the Emperor.

#2 - Chaos is more powerful than anything the Emperor or the Grey Knights can even fathom. What they have experienced, trained for, and built equipment to combat, is only a fraction of the real power of Chaos.

It is not a matter of "If" Grey Knights will be tainted by Chaos, it is a matter of "When". My own Chaos Space Marines (currently playing Death Guard and Black Legion) have engaged and defeated several armies of
Grey Knights. After the battle is over, enemy casualties not killed are taken back into The Eye of Terror. The Knights are stripped of their equipment, and all of their secrets are extracted from them. From there, they are offered as
a sacrifice to the Chaos Gods. Sometimes, Chaos Gods have other plans for them. Like sending them back to Titan as a "messenger", to corrupt additional brothers. Because all of the Grey Knights psychic powers, wards, and equipment
have been reverse engineered by the Chaos Gods, their fellow brothers are unaware..... How much more of a blow to the Grey Knights is it, when a corrupted Paladin returns back to the training grounds on Titan?
The Chaos Gods have their eyes directly on Draigo as well. It is just a matter of time before he falls. After all, Horus and half of the Primarchs turned to Chaos. Draigo is but a child compared to them.

Only Chaos is eternal..........................

Oh look a chaos fan!
May we play nicely so we don't scare him/her away?

I mean, evidence like games you won...how shall we beat that?

Lets see....won a few DoW games without losing a single vanilla marine ...does it make them invincible? If so, how can chaos even consider to oppose them?

Remember: chaos isn't eternal ( since codex chaos demons includes a hint on its possible end ) and always wins the second prize.
Yes, the 2nd, not the first. So go forth, return to your hideout and be that scheming villain!
Last time we heard of chaos, these IW legionaires got eaten by nids....the bugs the loyalists usually stop dead cold and kick out.
Is chaos important at all anymore?

Content deleted. Please do not post things like this on Dakka again.

reds8n

nomotog wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I agree, its not a question of if, but when. The process may have already begun. Example Blood tide. Immune to chaos but need the sisters blood. Instead of taking a pint or two, they slaughter and "anoint" their armor the blood. A suspecious mind may ponder, act of Khorne worship or truely a preventive act.

And Draigos dead. The whole living in the warp is propaganda.

You know even if they did get corrupted, no one is going to call them on it. Slaughtering a coven of sisters and washing your armor in it would brand anyone else as a knorne worshiping cultist, but sense they are GKs, and GKs can't be corrupted, just stick your fingers in your ears and lalala. If no one declares them chaos, can they really be chaos.

This stinks of '1984' Big Brother sort of thing, with the whole you believe what you're told to believe and ignore the rest. But then, the Imperium was always a Big Brother society, wasn't it...

The whole argument you have there is basically; "The Primarchs got corrupted so Grey Knights can." Grey Knights are trained against the powers of Chaos, they don't get corrupted, it's like trying to convert a Catholic Cardinal to become a Jehovah's Witness. Doesn't happen, won't happen, can't happen.

liquidjoshi wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote: How much more of a blow to the Grey Knights is it, when a corrupted Paladin returns back to the training grounds on Titan?

Fairly sure any GK would die before he gave in to Chaos. Paladins are only slightly less awesome than Captains, so breaking them would be neigh impossible.

NoArmouSave wrote:
The Chaos Gods have their eyes directly on Draigo as well. It is just a matter of time before he falls. After all, Horus and half of the Primarchs turned to Chaos. Draigo is but a child compared to them.

Mortarion would like a word with you.

NoArmourSave wrote:
Only Chaos is eternal

As a wise Dakkanaught once said, "I'm trolling your Chaos Grey Knight Thread."

"Fairly sure any GK would die before he gave in to Chaos. Paladins are only slightly less awesome than Captains, so breaking them would be neigh impossible."

And the Primarchs were only slightly less awesome than the Emperor, and they still fell. This doesn't hold up, and my Chaos armies have killed lots and lots of
Paladins. They have been broken, physically and in spirit.

"Mortarion would like a word with you."

Meh. If you just want to use 40K stats, Abaddon (who is not even a Primarch) will usually kill Draigo in a 1on1 duel. Even when Draigo gets the charge. Let me roll it out
for you real quick.

Draigo charges Abaddon (Psyk-out grenades are ineffective).
Draigo casts Hammerhand: 8 (goes off)

Abbadon attacks
Roll for extra attacks: 3 (7 total)
Roll to hit (need 4's): 4,2,5,6,5,1,2
Roll to wound (need 2;s): 4,2,4,1 (2 wounds) Reroll failed wounds (Talon of Horus): 1,5
Draigo rolls to save (need 3's): 4,4,1,4 (1 unsaved wound)

Draigo attacks
5 attacks (4's to hit): 1,4,5,3,6 (3 hits) Reroll 1 miss (mastercrafted): 2
Roll to wound (need 3's,): 6,6,5 (3 wounds)
Abbadon rolls to save (need 4's): 3,4,1 - (2 unsaved wounds)

Abaddon lost by 1 - 1 armor save: 6

NEXT ROUND

Draigo casts Hammerhand: 6 (goes off)

Abbadon attacks:
Roll for extra attacks: 4 (8 total)
Roll to hit (need 4's):3,4,1,3,2,1,5,6 (3 hits)
Roll to wound (need 2's): 4,3,6 (3 wounds)
Draigo rolls to save (need 3's): 2,3,2 (2 unsaved wounds)

Draigo attacks:
4 attacks (4's to hit): 2,2,5,6 (2 hits) Reroll 1 miss (mastercrafted): 4
Roll to wound (need 3's,): 6,2,3 (2 wounds)
Abaddon rolls to save (need 4's): 2,5 (1 unsaved wound)

NEXT ROUND

Draigo casts Hammerhand: 5 (goes off)

Abbadon attacks:
Roll for extra attacks: 4 (8 total)
Roll to hit (need 4's):5,5,1,6,6,2,2,1 (4 hits)
Roll to wound (need 2's): 6,4,6,1 (3 wounds) Reroll failed wounds (Talon of Horus): 5
Draigo rolls to save (need 3's): 3,5,2,4 (1 unsaved wound; he falls to Abaddon)

Abaddon skewers Draigo on Drach'nyen, and offers his soul as a sacrifice to the Chaos Gods.

In addition, a basic Bloodthirster with blessing will easily wipe Draigo everytime in a Duel, and even a basic Khorne Daemon Prince with blessing will usually destroy him.


"As a wise Dakkanaught once said, "I'm trolling your Chaos Grey Knight Thread.""

The Fanboyz just need to realize; the corruption of Grey Knights is inevitable.....

Using game results to justify background assumptions(because quite frankly, that's all you're doing here: making assumptions) is ridiculous.

It's also worth noting that the Primarchs were not fully "formed" when they were first exposed to Chaos. And while some certainly fell, we don't call it the "Primarch" Heresy.

We call it the "Horus" Heresy. Horus(NOT CHAOS) convinced several of his brothers into following him on the path to toppling the Empire. Horus was misled by his brother, Lorgar. Lorgar was 'bestowed a Vision of the Future' by the Ruinous Powers--which led to him starting the wheels within wheels for the fall of Horus.

TL;DR version?
Chaos didn't do all that much. It was a catalyst for an event which would likely have happened anyways.

Sir Samuel Buca wrote:The whole argument you have there is basically; "The Primarchs got corrupted so Grey Knights can." Grey Knights are trained against the powers of Chaos, they don't get corrupted, it's like trying to convert a Catholic Cardinal to become a Jehovah's Witness. Doesn't happen, won't happen, can't happen.

I disagree. The Grey Knights are much weaker than the Primarchs, so even though they are trained to resist Chaos, it is not full proof.

Additionally, just because they are trained, doesn't mean that training is without flaws. There are aspects of Chaos that even the emperor is unaware of. Chaos will find a chink in this armor.

Do you have an example to prove your point?
Is there a precedent?

Just curious...

TT rules don't have any connection with the fluff.
While I was playing a game my single Guardsman killed entire Tau FW team in melee, so that means that in fluff one Guardsman can do that to?

And Grey Knights own codex say ( 5'th and 3'rd edition ) that Grey Knights are incorruptible in any way to Chaos. Various novels and stories from 40k fluff confirm this.
Grey Knight falling to Chaos is a think that is never going to happened. Not now, not ever.

NoArmorSave wrote:
*Le mega snip*

The Fanboyz just need to realize; the corruption of Grey Knights is inevitable.....

Irony, thy name art...

Yes, OK, as both a Chaos Marine and Grey Knight player, I know Abaddon usually wins vs Draigo in cc. Whoo. Last time I checked, Abaddon is meant to be a wrecking ball, whilst Draigo provides tactical flexibility in your army through Grand Strategy, Psychic communion and Allowing Paladins to count as troops. For a decent game, 'Baddy should be able to tank out Draigo. However, this is a discussion belonging in Tactics, so I'll leave it there.

Ever tried to slam a revolving door? juggle without catching the balls? Neither have I, because they are impossible tasks. Now the world of 40K is hardly comparable to today. But converting a GK to Chaos, to the service of that which he is almost utter anathema is not going to happen unless they are not fully trained. Yes, GK can die, you can take and reverse engineer their weapons.
But you're not going to convert them any time soon, or likely ever.

Hell, we could get worse than Ward on the next codex.

And well, if Fanon was Canon, then the Ultrasmurfs and Salamanders would own the universe, there would be almost no Xenos, and The Emperor would be Teabagging Khorne to death.

liquidjoshi wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:
*Le mega snip*

The Fanboyz just need to realize; the corruption of Grey Knights is inevitable.....

Irony, thy name art...

Yes, OK, as both a Chaos Marine and Grey Knight player, I know Abaddon usually wins vs Draigo in cc. Whoo. Last time I checked, Abaddon is meant to be a wrecking ball, whilst Draigo provides tactical flexibility in your army through Grand Strategy, Psychic communion and Allowing Paladins to count as troops. For a decent game, 'Baddy should be able to tank out Draigo. However, this is a discussion belonging in Tactics, so I'll leave it there.

Ever tried to slam a revolving door? juggle without catching the balls? Neither have I, because they are impossible tasks. Now the world of 40K is hardly comparable to today. But converting a GK to Chaos, to the service of that which he is almost utter anathema is not going to happen unless they are not fully trained. Yes, GK can die, you can take and reverse engineer their weapons.
But you're not going to convert them any time soon, or likely ever.

Hell, we could get worse than Ward on the next codex.

And well, if Fanon was Canon, then the Ultrasmurfs and Salamanders would own the universe, there would be almost no Xenos, and The Emperor would be Teabagging Khorne to death.

"But converting a GK to Chaos, to the service of that which he is almost utter anathema is not going to happen unless they are not fully trained. "

This argument doesn't hold up. It was anathema for the Primarchs and loyal Legions to even contemplate turning on the Emperor, the God of mankind whom they have sworn their very beings to serve and protect. The very idea of turning on the Emperor, or for an Astarte to fight another Astarte was unthinkable, yet it happened.

The Primarchs swore to serve and protect the Imperium first, and then the Emperor.

They did not believe that "The Emperor is the Imperium" like we see in the Astartes and Ecclesiarchy.

You have to frame things in context. Horus didn't "turn against the Emperor because of Chaos". Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy.

NoArmorSave wrote:
"But converting a GK to Chaos, to the service of that which he is almost utter anathema is not going to happen unless they are not fully trained. "

This argument doesn't hold up. It was anathema for the Primarchs and loyal Legions to even contemplate turning on the Emperor, the God of mankind whom they have sworn their very beings to serve and protect. The very idea of turning on the Emperor, or for an Astarte to fight another Astarte was unthinkable, yet it happened.

*Sigh*. Missed again mate. He, The Grey Knight is anathema to Chaos. The only thing I can think of that Chaos cannot abide more is Nulls. Maybe Tau have less of a register in the warp, but it's like a really mild cheese as opposed to the "tastes like utter gak" taste of a GK.

TL;DR version: Choas does not want GK. It would be like eating gak for pleasure.

Kanluwen wrote:The Primarchs swore to serve and protect the Imperium first, and then the Emperor.

They did not believe that "The Emperor is the Imperium" like we see in the Astartes and Ecclesiarchy.

You have to frame things in context. Horus didn't "turn against the Emperor because of Chaos". Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy.

Doesn't matter; it was still anathema for them to turn against the Emperor.


"Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy."

But his belief in this was caused by the power of Chaos. Chaos manipulated and deceived him


Automatically Appended Next Post:

liquidjoshi wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:
"But converting a GK to Chaos, to the service of that which he is almost utter anathema is not going to happen unless they are not fully trained. "

This argument doesn't hold up. It was anathema for the Primarchs and loyal Legions to even contemplate turning on the Emperor, the God of mankind whom they have sworn their very beings to serve and protect. The very idea of turning on the Emperor, or for an Astarte to fight another Astarte was unthinkable, yet it happened.

*Sigh*. Missed again mate. He, The Grey Knight is anathema to Chaos. The only thing I can think of that Chaos cannot abide more is Nulls. Maybe Tau have less of a register in the warp, but it's like a really mild cheese as opposed to the "tastes like utter gak" taste of a GK.

TL;DR version: Choas does not want GK. It would be like eating gak for pleasure.

Nah, I didn't "miss" anything. Just because I do not agree with your position on things, does not mean I do not understand it.

I would say Chaos are very interested in the GK. They want to get hold of all of their powers and wargear to reverse engineer everything. The ultimate goal is to turn them, or utterly destroy them so they are no longer a threat.

Seriously, this thread again?

Yes, Grey Knight bodies can be corrupted.

However, Grey Knight souls are utterly incorruptible.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:Seriously, this thread again?

Yes, Grey Knight bodies can be corrupted.

However, Grey Knight souls are utterly incorruptible.

Iranna.

So...GK can get Gift of Chaosed (at least, I think that's the spell that makes the target into a spawn)?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So...GK can get Gift of Chaosed (at least, I think that's the spell that makes the target into a spawn)?

Yes.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So...GK can get Gift of Chaosed (at least, I think that's the spell that makes the target into a spawn)?

Yes.

Iranna.

That's actually pretty damn funny.
If I ever go chaos, I will totally make GK spawn.

NoArmorSave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The Primarchs swore to serve and protect the Imperium first, and then the Emperor.

They did not believe that "The Emperor is the Imperium" like we see in the Astartes and Ecclesiarchy.

You have to frame things in context. Horus didn't "turn against the Emperor because of Chaos". Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy.

Doesn't matter; it was still anathema for them to turn against the Emperor.

I would say it's pretty important that Horus went: "No Emprah. You're wrong, let me take the wheel" Because he believed he was serving the Imperium, As opposed to "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, GIVE ME YOUR BLOODS PEOPLE MUAHAHAHAH!" Because he was serving them.

Context is pretty damn important in fluff.

"Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy."

NoArmorSave wrote:

But his belief in this was caused by the power of Chaos. Chaos manipulated and deceived him

Yes. Eventually.

NoArmorSave wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

liquidjoshi wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:
"But converting a GK to Chaos, to the service of that which he is almost utter anathema is not going to happen unless they are not fully trained. "

This argument doesn't hold up. It was anathema for the Primarchs and loyal Legions to even contemplate turning on the Emperor, the God of mankind whom they have sworn their very beings to serve and protect. The very idea of turning on the Emperor, or for an Astarte to fight another Astarte was unthinkable, yet it happened.

*Sigh*. Missed again mate. He, The Grey Knight is anathema to Chaos. The only thing I can think of that Chaos cannot abide more is Nulls. Maybe Tau have less of a register in the warp, but it's like a really mild cheese as opposed to the "tastes like utter gak" taste of a GK.

TL;DR version: Choas does not want GK. It would be like eating gak for pleasure.

Nah, I didn't "miss" anything. Just because I do not agree with your position on things, does not mean I do not understand it.

I would say Chaos are very interested in the GK. They want to get hold of all of their powers and wargear to reverse engineer everything. The ultimate goal is to turn them, or utterly destroy them so they are no longer a threat.

And I would say I'm pretty interested in surfing the Popemobile into battle C.S.Goto style. However, we both know that is never going to happen.

Yes, we can see things from different perspectives with most things in 40K. But there are still things in 40K which are concrete, and most would agree that this is one of those things. Essentially what Kanluwen is about to say. Next you'll be arguing There is no such things as Gork and Mork in 40K.

And to add to my earlier post, the Astartes never saw the emperor as a god-like figure, more like a father. But they swore to the Imperium first, then to the Emperor. They were still loyal, to a point.

NoArmorSave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The Primarchs swore to serve and protect the Imperium first, and then the Emperor.

They did not believe that "The Emperor is the Imperium" like we see in the Astartes and Ecclesiarchy.

You have to frame things in context. Horus didn't "turn against the Emperor because of Chaos". Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy.

Doesn't matter; it was still anathema for them to turn against the Emperor.

Says who?

The Emperor was not a God to the Primarchs. He was their father.

This is where you're seemingly confusing things.The Primarchs and Emperor, effectively, existed upon the same "plane". Sometimes a child thinks father does, in fact, not know best. Sometimes the works of the parent bring down the life of the child.

"Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy."

But his belief in this was caused by the power of Chaos. Chaos manipulated and deceived him

No, it wasn't.

"Chaos" manipulated Lorgar into manipulating Horus.

Nah, I didn't "miss" anything. Just because I do not agree with your position on things, does not mean I do not understand it.

Seemingly, you don't.

Chaos cannot corrupt a Grey Knight. It's impossible. Really. It's impossible.

A Grey Knight cannot fall to the predations of Chaos. They can only be killed by the pawns of Chaos and the sorcery that some can employ.

I would say Chaos are very interested in the GK. They want to get hold of all of their powers and wargear to reverse engineer everything. The ultimate goal is to turn them, or utterly destroy them so they are no longer a threat.

And they can't.
The Aegis warplate will not work without the Grey Knight inside of it. The Psycannons will fall silent, the Nemesis weapons will break.
The Grey Knight IS the weapon.

It's important to remember, also, that there is no real "ultimate goal of Chaos". To suggest that Chaos is actively trying to corrupt the Grey knights is...well, it's silly.

To the Ruinous Powers, the Grey Knights are nothing. The Grey Knights are only a threat to the servants of the Ruinous Powers.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:

nomotog wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I agree, its not a question of if, but when. The process may have already begun. Example Blood tide. Immune to chaos but need the sisters blood. Instead of taking a pint or two, they slaughter and "anoint" their armor the blood. A suspecious mind may ponder, act of Khorne worship or truely a preventive act.

And Draigos dead. The whole living in the warp is propaganda.

You know even if they did get corrupted, no one is going to call them on it. Slaughtering a coven of sisters and washing your armor in it would brand anyone else as a knorne worshiping cultist, but sense they are GKs, and GKs can't be corrupted, just stick your fingers in your ears and lalala. If no one declares them chaos, can they really be chaos.

This stinks of '1984' Big Brother sort of thing, with the whole you believe what you're told to believe and ignore the rest. But then, the Imperium was always a Big Brother society, wasn't it...

Also reminds me a little of the fandom.

As to the gk being nothing to chaos thats untrue. They thought it great sport to catch one alive in Counters novels. They enjoyed watching his suffering and the Duke was elevated for bringing home such an interesting slave. Once the psy defense was off they did mess with alric badly and cause him to lash out blood for the blood god style. BUT unless they possess them after using a collar of Khorne there is no other known or written way to do it or even attempt it. But as stated no author will EVER write canon that says a GK falls. Thatd be like the sm house training nids. lol

Not to be mean, but it's best to ignore Counter's Grey Knight novels if you're wishing to discuss "canon".

They're not anywhere near as bad as C.S. Goto's when it comes to outright silliness, but they suffer from an extreme case of "artistic exaggeration".

Kanluwen wrote:Not to be mean, but it's best to ignore Counter's Grey Knight novels if you're wishing to discuss "canon".

They're not anywhere near as bad as C.S. Goto's when it comes to outright silliness, but they suffer from an extreme case of "artistic exaggeration".

The entire fluff is artistic exaggeration. Otherwise you could only use the codex and no other source. Killing ground, old daemonhunter book, or any other mention of gk is made invalid. It does however show that any writer can change it if he wants therefore while maybe never written as canon any individual can make a chaos themed gk army and justify it as well as any who dislike it(which im a party to disliking the idea as much as many of the cron players disliked the shift in their fluff because of ONE writer. lol"

Draigo wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Not to be mean, but it's best to ignore Counter's Grey Knight novels if you're wishing to discuss "canon".

They're not anywhere near as bad as C.S. Goto's when it comes to outright silliness, but they suffer from an extreme case of "artistic exaggeration".

The entire fluff is artistic exaggeration.

This is an exaggeration. There are certain "immutable rules" of the 40k universe, and one just happens to be that "Grey Knights cannot fall to Chaos". It's been this way since their introduction.

Otherwise you could only use the codex and no other source. Killing ground, old daemonhunter book, or any other mention of gk is made invalid. It does however show that any writer can change it if he wants therefore while maybe never written as canon any individual can make a chaos themed gk army and justify it as well as any who dislike it(which im a party to disliking the idea as much as many of the cron players disliked the shift in their fluff because of ONE writer. lol"

Well no, the problem with this was more that Counter had to make an otherwise bland and relatively unfleshed out faction "interesting".

It would likely have had the same consequences if he'd written a piece about a Tyranid Gaunt or a Necron Scarab. Some things just are flatout boring to begin with, and artistic exaggeration is inevitable.

Kanluwen wrote:

Draigo wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Not to be mean, but it's best to ignore Counter's Grey Knight novels if you're wishing to discuss "canon".

They're not anywhere near as bad as C.S. Goto's when it comes to outright silliness, but they suffer from an extreme case of "artistic exaggeration".

The entire fluff is artistic exaggeration.

This is an exaggeration. There are certain "immutable rules" of the 40k universe, and one just happens to be that "Grey Knights cannot fall to Chaos". It's been this way since their introduction.

Otherwise you could only use the codex and no other source. Killing ground, old daemonhunter book, or any other mention of gk is made invalid. It does however show that any writer can change it if he wants therefore while maybe never written as canon any individual can make a chaos themed gk army and justify it as well as any who dislike it(which im a party to disliking the idea as much as many of the cron players disliked the shift in their fluff because of ONE writer. lol"

Well no, the problem with this was more that Counter had to make an otherwise bland and relatively unfleshed out faction "interesting".

It would likely have had the same consequences if he'd written a piece about a Tyranid Gaunt or a Necron Scarab. Some things just are flatout boring to begin with, and artistic exaggeration is inevitable.

That is your opinion and there are very few hard facts otherwise there wouldnt be threads debating fluff like if the emperor is, was a chaos god yada yada.. or custodian strength to a sm or any other inumerable debates. So while I like that them the way they are it can be changed.

Kanluwen wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The Primarchs swore to serve and protect the Imperium first, and then the Emperor.

They did not believe that "The Emperor is the Imperium" like we see in the Astartes and Ecclesiarchy.

You have to frame things in context. Horus didn't "turn against the Emperor because of Chaos". Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy.

Doesn't matter; it was still anathema for them to turn against the Emperor.

Says who?

The Emperor was not a God to the Primarchs. He was their father.

This is where you're seemingly confusing things.The Primarchs and Emperor, effectively, existed upon the same "plane". Sometimes a child thinks father does, in fact, not know best. Sometimes the works of the parent bring down the life of the child.

"Horus turned against the Emperor because Horus truly believed the Emperor was letting the Imperium slip backwards into stagnancy."

But his belief in this was caused by the power of Chaos. Chaos manipulated and deceived him

No, it wasn't.

"Chaos" manipulated Lorgar into manipulating Horus.

Nah, I didn't "miss" anything. Just because I do not agree with your position on things, does not mean I do not understand it.

Seemingly, you don't.

Chaos cannot corrupt a Grey Knight. It's impossible. Really. It's impossible.

A Grey Knight cannot fall to the predations of Chaos. They can only be killed by the pawns of Chaos and the sorcery that some can employ.

I would say Chaos are very interested in the GK. They want to get hold of all of their powers and wargear to reverse engineer everything. The ultimate goal is to turn them, or utterly destroy them so they are no longer a threat.

And they can't.
The Aegis warplate will not work without the Grey Knight inside of it. The Psycannons will fall silent, the Nemesis weapons will break.
The Grey Knight IS the weapon.

It's important to remember, also, that there is no real "ultimate goal of Chaos". To suggest that Chaos is actively trying to corrupt the Grey knights is...well, it's silly.

To the Ruinous Powers, the Grey Knights are nothing. The Grey Knights are only a threat to the servants of the Ruinous Powers.

"Says who?
The Emperor was not a God to the Primarchs. He was their father."

He is much, much more than just "their father". He is the architect of the imperium of man, the Adeptus Astartes, and is worshiped as a God by humanity.
The Primarchs and the Legions that fell, lived their lives in his service and followed him unquestionably. The fact that they would turn on him, is anathema for
everything that stand for.


"Chaos" manipulated Lorgar into manipulating Horus."

Wrong. It was still the work of Chaos, they simply used Lorgar as a pawn. The Chaos Gods had Horus targeted after he was created. They knew he would be the key to the Heresy.


"Chaos cannot corrupt a Grey Knight. It's impossible. Really. It's impossible.
A Grey Knight cannot fall to the predations of Chaos. They can only be killed by the pawns of Chaos and the sorcery that some can employ."

It is absolutely not impossible. It is certain given enough time.


"And they can't.
The Aegis warplate will not work without the Grey Knight inside of it. The Psycannons will fall silent, the Nemesis weapons will break.
The Grey Knight IS the weapon.

It's important to remember, also, that there is no real "ultimate goal of Chaos". To suggest that Chaos is actively trying to corrupt the Grey knights is...well, it's silly.
To the Ruinous Powers, the Grey Knights are nothing. The Grey Knights are only a threat to the servants of the Ruinous Powers."


This is just filled with all kinds of opinionated Inaccuracies. We have been over these points in above post(s).
A - Aegis warplate WILL WORK without a Grey Knight inside of it, if Chaos is able to find a way to reverse engineer it's properties and use their powers to make it work. If the Chaos God's want this to
happen it will. The wards placed by the insignificant emperor won't stop them. As I mentioned before, it could be that the Aegis was originally a poisoned gift from the Chaos God's.
B - Don't assume to know how the Chaos Gods feel about the Grey Knights. If the Grey Knights are getting in the way of their plans, they will become significant and will be eliminated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iranna wrote:Seriously, this thread again?

Yes, Grey Knight bodies can be corrupted.

However, Grey Knight souls are utterly incorruptible.

Iranna.

You are not adding any value to this thread by running in here and making 2 liner statements.


My take on the fluff\how I am going to play things in my games:

Grey Knights souls are utterly incorruptible FOR THE TIME BEING, until the Chaos Gods find
a way to do it, and reveal the method to their followers. It is just a matter of time until the code
is cracked.

If Chaos is so powerful then why are they waiting? That doesn't make any sense. They pretty much always get owned by the Imperium in the end.

NoArmourSave wrote:You are not adding any value to this thread by running in here and making 2 liner statements.


My take on the fluff\how I am going to play things in my games:

Grey Knights souls are utterly incorruptible FOR THE TIME BEING, until the Chaos Gods find
a way to do it, and reveal the method to their followers. It is just a matter of time until the code
is cracked.

Actually, I'm attempting to correct your misconception that Grey Knight's souls can actually be corrupted, which - they can't.

You can play your games however you want, if you really want, you can play as if Horus really did topple the Imperium and now the whole of GW's writing is invalid - it really has no bearing on what is ACTUALLY fact. i.e, Grey Knight souls are incorruptible.

All you are achieving with this thread is inviting people to prove you wrong and then trying to rebut them with "This is what I think and you won't change it" argument. You have no proof that Grey Knight souls can be corrupted and Codex Grey Knights implicitly states: "...an army of unfaltering and incorruptible warriors born of forgotten science. They are the Grey Knights"

Iranna.

-666- wrote:If Chaos is so powerful then why are they waiting? That doesn't make any sense. They pretty much always get owned by the Imperium in the end.

Look up the definition of the word chaos.

a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.

Where is the need for a human construct? We base our choices off of a limited life span and an inability to process more then a few trains of thought at once. Hence why humans create laws, acceptable behaviors, religion and any other way to explain our world. You are asking an abstarct to fit into a narrow scope of "this is why this happens just like 2 + 2 = 4." cept those things would exist if we didnt label them so. In another culture 2 may be grape fruit. A being like Tzeentch has inifinite number of schemes going on at once and makes plans in terms of centuries decades etcsince he is immortal and above human ideas or need for such simple terms like we need to function.