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And out of the ashes will rise something the American people can truly believe in

CT GAMER wrote:faux-outrage over stuff like this is a nice way to distractt attention from the real issues people should be outraged about...

I don't have time for homless, jobless Americans, addressing criminal greed, or institutional corruption, I have to stop those kids from burning that piece of cloth...

CT has said almost what I was feeling. Homelessness/joblessness is a much bigger issue than this crap.

Johnny-Crass wrote:And out of the ashes will rise something the American people can truly believe in

Except your favored group cannot describe their vision for a future, and have no plan to enable the building of the future they can't describe.

All they can do is burn loot and destroy. They are not producers nor visionaries. They are anarchist crap bags.

CptJake wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:And out of the ashes will rise something the American people can truly believe in

Except your favored group cannot describe their vision for a future, and have no plan to enable the building of the future they can't describe.

All they can do is burn loot and destroy. They are not producers nor visionaries. They are anarchist crap bags.

Can the current American government describe their vision for our future? No they are to busy stuffing their pockets with money made on the backs of the poor. I would rather be a anarchist crapbag than a corporate stooge or a nationalist lemming

CptJake wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:And out of the ashes will rise something the American people can truly believe in

Except your favored group cannot describe their vision for a future, and have no plan to enable the building of the future they can't describe.

All they can do is burn loot and destroy. They are not producers nor visionaries. They are anarchist crap bags.

This could also be said about Neocons:
All they can do is burn loot and destroy. They are not producers nor visionaries. They are crap bags.

CptJake wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:And out of the ashes will rise something the American people can truly believe in

Except your favored group cannot describe their vision for a future, and have no plan to enable the building of the future they can't describe.

All they can do is burn loot and destroy. They are not producers nor visionaries. They are anarchist crap bags.

You make the assumption that everyone involved are equal in all respects, be it ideology, education, motivation, etc..

Certainly you have an element involved that are clueless, posers, simply cashing in on the chance to pretend to be "revolutionaries", etc., etc.

But to paint everyone with the same broad brush says alot more about you then it does about them tbh...

The flag is used politically all the time, I don't see why people who disagree with the nation's actions can't also use it politically.

CT GAMER wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:And out of the ashes will rise something the American people can truly believe in

Except your favored group cannot describe their vision for a future, and have no plan to enable the building of the future they can't describe.

All they can do is burn loot and destroy. They are not producers nor visionaries. They are anarchist crap bags.

You make the assumption that everyone involved are equal in all respects, be it ideology, education, motivation, etc..

Certainly you have an element involved that are clueless, posers, simply cashing in on the chance to pretend to be "revolutionaries", etc., etc.

But to paint everyone with the same broad brush says alot more about you then it does about them tbh...

I think that about sums it all up.

Melissia wrote:The flag is used politically all the time, I don't see why people who disagree with the nation's actions can't also use it politically.

Agreed. People hide behind it and wave it all the time in attempts to tie their own political intents with patriotism, even when it isn't warrented.

I'd say the flag wavers themselves have made the flag so tempting to groups like this by their own forced reverence for it...

They could just not like the way America is going, and want to change it. So they take a symbol of America and burn it. Because their angry.

Now, I don't think that stealing that flag was good. I agree with OWS, but that's a bit far out.

Johnny-Crass wrote:I say burn em all. I have spent alot of time at occupy oakland and fully support any actions they make. This nation is not for the people anymore and I would proudly burn a symbol of corporate greed

And I've never been so proud of giving the finger (while drinking coffee) to the OWS Houston march.




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biccat wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:I say burn em all. I have spent alot of time at occupy oakland and fully support any actions they make. This nation is not for the people anymore and I would proudly burn a symbol of corporate greed

Damn, I thought you were saying burn all the Occupy protestors.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

You'd have to get past their natural defense mechanism (lack of bathing). When you reak more than a wiener dog's breath, its time to find some soap.


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Johnny-Crass wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:I say burn em all. I have spent alot of time at occupy oakland and fully support any actions they make. This nation is not for the people anymore and I would proudly burn a symbol of corporate greed

Bwahahaha! My opinion of you based on this statement is unpublishable on Dakka, luckily if you hate that symbol of corporate greed and all it entails you are still welcome to leave. Perhaps Peru or Syria?

Or I could have a spine and stay in this nation and fight it out one step at a time. People who say if you dont like it leave are just so single minded. If you dont like it you stay and fight it until it goes away.

You're not fighting. you're just smelling. If you were fighting you'd try that stunt around some steel workers or some Permian basin roughnecks. Then there would be a fight.*

*Not really, unless being beaten to death within seconds constitutes fighting.


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CptJake wrote:Well, you do have to admit that breaking into and causing several million dollars of damage to a public building wasn't really sticking it to Corporate America as much as to the tax payers in Oakland...

The flag burning (of a looted flag) just shows the mentality of these punks.

"Burn It Down"... They are not FOR anything. They don't want to make positive changes. They want to destroy.

In their defense, they seem to want to destroy Oakland. Thats like saying you're going to destroy Detroit. "Wait Detroit is still standing?" would be the most common response.


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Johnny-Crass wrote:And out of the ashes will rise something the American people can truly believe in

The Great Spaghetti Being?

Frazzled your response of violence is typical of those who hold strong nationalistic ties or who use brute force to enforce the militaristic oppression of the poor. You stereotype us as the dirty drumcircle hippie but honestly they are the minority in the OWS movement. I have seen so many kinds of people march beside me and I am proud to be one of them. All the bullets, teargas, pepper spray and government oppression in the world will not silence the idea of equality.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Frazzled your response of violence is typical of those who hold strong nationalistic ties or who use brute force to enforce the militaristic oppression of the poor. You stereotype us as the dirty drumcircle hippie but honestly they are the minority in the OWS movement. I have seen so many kinds of people march beside me and I am proud to be one of them. All the bullets, teargas, pepper spray and government oppression in the world will not silence the idea of equality.

Pff. I see you jokers every day near work. Its so hard to tell the difference between the protesters and the homeless guys hanging out. At least the homeless are honest about it. The OWS guys are just a joke. All 8 of you.

Frazzled wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:Frazzled your response of violence is typical of those who hold strong nationalistic ties or who use brute force to enforce the militaristic oppression of the poor. You stereotype us as the dirty drumcircle hippie but honestly they are the minority in the OWS movement. I have seen so many kinds of people march beside me and I am proud to be one of them. All the bullets, teargas, pepper spray and government oppression in the world will not silence the idea of equality.

Pff. I see you jokers every day near work. Its so hard to tell the difference between the protesters and the homeless guys hanging out. At least the homeless are honest about it. The OWS guys are just a joke. All 8 of you.

I see what you did there

In my opinion, OWS has the right idea but is going about it in the wrong way. You can't win this kind of thing without manipulating politics to get your back, it's underhanded and tricky but the only way to change the government is from the inside. Also, a group of cohesive leaders or some kind of organizers might help .

Johnny-Crass wrote:Frazzled your response of violence is typical of those who hold strong nationalistic ties or who use brute force to enforce the militaristic oppression of the poor. You stereotype us as the dirty drumcircle hippie but honestly they are the minority in the OWS movement. I have seen so many kinds of people march beside me and I am proud to be one of them. All the bullets, teargas, pepper spray and government oppression in the world will not silence the idea of equality.

ha ha FFS, this keeps getting better and better! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

Johnny, I'm saying this as a friend.

Arguing against Frazzled is like trying to demolish a brick wall with a stick of butter.

Johnny-Crass wrote:And out of the ashes will rise something the American people can truly believe in

Really? What are you...12?

Did that work for South Africa? The USSR?

Out of the ashes will rise...absolutely nothing. The only ashes these people make comes from flags and weed.

If you want change use the system to do so. Making asses of yourselves does nothing for your "cause". Actually having a cause would help too.

Chowderhead wrote:Johnny, I'm saying this as a friend.

Arguing against Frazzled is like trying to demolish a brick wall with a stick of butter.

If the brick wall were annoying and powered by the spirit of Dachshundskrieg!

What about burning things somewhat flag themed, like say an American Flag T-Shirt, or American Flag Bikini?

What if you burn the flag, but then feed the ashes to a bigger flag. Making it stronger.

Burn a flag if you want.... busting up city hall to steal flags to burn is gak kid behavior, not protesting. Seriously, are the corporations going to be forced to replace/fix that stuff? Jesus, support the general ideas behind the OWS stuff if you want, but the Oakland guys are just doing the loot burn destroy idiot crap that makes people look down on and hate the whole shebang.

biccat wrote:I wasn't aware there was any debate about flag burning. I thought we were all generally on the same page on the issue:

It's legal to burn flags. People who burn flags are donkey-caves.

As they say, "Seriously, biccat gave the perfect response to this topic".

I wholly believe flag burning is a constitutional right, and it's a really tasteless thing to do under nearly any circumstance. Shameful and disgraceful.

the occupy protest is going to be going on for a while, since the protesters are, at this point, just the dregs of society, since all the functioning members are either

A) going to work/school

B) looking for work

C) have something better to bo

Johnny-Crass wrote:Frazzled your response of violence is typical of those who hold strong nationalistic ties or who use brute force to enforce the militaristic oppression of the poor.

No one in the United State is oppressed, militaristically or otherwise. If you want to see people who are oppressed, there are plenty of nations I'm willing to buy you plain ticket to visit. Of curse, I can't promise you a two-way ticket, I'm on a budget after all.

Johnny-Crass wrote:
All the bullets, teargas, pepper spray and government oppression in the world will not silence the idea of equality.

I see we aren't terribly familiar with North Korea.


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Frazzled wrote:
Pff. I see you jokers every day near work. Its so hard to tell the difference between the protesters and the homeless guys hanging out. At least the homeless are honest about it. The OWS guys are just a joke. All 8 of you.

To be fair, taking the OWS protester in Texas as emblematic of OWS protester in general is a lot like taking Republican politicians from New York as emblematic of the Republican Party in general.

dogma wrote:No one in the United State is oppressed, militaristically or otherwise. If you want to see people who are oppressed, there are plenty of nations I'm willing to buy you plain ticket to visit.

There sure is a lot of room under that umbrella. Just because something is worse someplace else doesn't mean it isn't bad here. if a black guy gets dragged to death behind a pickup in texas for being black, it's not negated by the fact there are more common injustices elsewhere.

Or do I misunderstand what you mean?

Pics or it didn't happen? And dogma, I've heard a lot about the people of Bavaria being oppressed, and if you want to buy me a plane ticket out there for a fact finding mission, say in late September or early October I would be happy to find my own way home.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Frazzled your response of violence is typical of those who hold strong nationalistic ties or who use brute force to enforce the militaristic oppression of the poor....

Says the guy who needs the ashes of his country to build something worth believing in.

Bromsy wrote:Pics or it didn't happen?

It happened.

Ouze wrote:
There sure is a lot of room under that umbrella. Just because something is worse someplace else doesn't mean it isn't bad here. if a black guy gets dragged to death behind a pickup in texas for being black, it's not negated by the fact there are more common injustices elsewhere.

Or do I misunderstand what you mean?

I suppose I should have specified, "oppressed by the state" is what I meant.

I'd also probably argue that if there are places where people are oppressed by private actors, there aren't many of them, and they probably only marginally qualify as oppression.

Basically Jim Bob and his buddies that really hate black people probably can't oppress them due to physical limitations.


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remilia_scarlet wrote:the occupy protest is going to be going on for a while, since the protesters are, at this point, just the dregs of society, since all the functioning members are either

A) going to work/school

B) looking for work

C) have something better to bo

There's these magical things called "wi-fi", "3G", and "4G" that make it fairly easy to look for a job at any protest, not just an OWS protest. They even make it possible for you to do work, as not everyone works out of an office. I also imagine that Angry Birds is a popular diversion for many protesters.

dogma wrote:I suppose I should have specified, "oppressed by the state" is what I meant

Fair enough.

I don't really see the big deal with flags - I'm one of those delightful liberal lefties that doesn't really understand nationalism, I'm afraid - but as Wall Street and the bankers who are supposedly the target of this movement do not equal America as a whole by any stretch of the imagination, I can only conclude that this was the action of a bunch of weekend revolutionaries, who turn up, wreck everything, then chortle about how they "stuck it to the maaaaaaan" while the rest of us find our positions weakened when we ask for genuine reform due to the behaviour of a minority.