How canon do you like your 40K?

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**Steelmage99**

I believe that the fluff should never ever be used as a constraint.

The fluff is an ever expanding setting used to create good stories around which we play our game.

It is a big (40k) universe out there and we have repeatedly been show that nothing is too strange.

We have been told that there is no objective truth.
Some pieces of fluff are propaganda, personal opinions/theories or outright lies/misinformation....and we don't know which.

The truth may be out there, but the lies are all in your head.

Also, since the fluff/canon have zero impact on the game...why take it so seriously?
Don't get my wrong...I love the setting and background of 40K. it is what keeps me playing.
But there is no reason to get angry because some neckbeard calls Tau communists, makes fun of Rowboat Girlyman (or Spahz Mareenz in general) or like the idea of female space marines...or to vehemently disregard a particular armylist because it is "unfluffy".

**Iracundus**

For any setting to be coherent that has to be some truth, some objective fact. Otherwise the whole thing degenerates into nonsense.

What if someone says there was never an Emperor, the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels was Homer Simpson, Blood Angels wear green armor, and bolters shoot laser beams? That's the sort of ludicrousness that can result from a "nothing is known to be truth, anything goes" approach. If nothing is true, there is no basis to reject the claim that a human can bench press a Titan. Wait, someone saying it's too heavy and that gravity would result in the person being crushed? Isn't that an objective truth about gravity working in the 40K universe?

In any fictional universe, everything including the laws of physics are up to the writer. The existence of consistent physical laws of realspace within 40K shows there to be some objective truth.

**Pilau Rice**

Iracundus wrote:
there was never an Emperor, the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels was Homer Simpson, Blood Angels wear green armor, and bolters shoot laser beams?

C.S Goto at his finest

**Zinderneuf**

Steelmage99 wrote:Some pieces of fluff are propaganda, personal opinions/theories or outright lies/misinformation....and we don't know which.

The truth may be out there, but the lies are all in your head.

Since the one central truth of the 41st M seems to be that non one will tell you what the truth is, even if he can, I'm in complete agreement with this.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iracundus wrote:What if someone says... ...the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels was Homer Simpson...

**Kellhus**

Not having ever played any 40k RPG games, I cannot say how I would feel about throwing out all of the canon. My initial reaction is that I don't like it, but then again, there's something to be said for actually NOT knowing the big picture.

In an RPG, I'd probably be ok with almost anything, but on the table or in writing, I think it is best to not stray too far from home so to speak.

**Pilau Rice**

Zinderneuf wrote:

Iracundus wrote:What if someone says... ...the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels was Homer Simpson...

Homer Simpson is not an Imperial Fist he is the Primarch of the Blood Angels. Get it right!

**hotsauceman1**

Ascalam wrote:There's no point in liking it too Canon.

Every time a new codex is written or a new BL book released they retcon everything anyway

I like my setting a bit more oldschool, to be frank. Back when Marines had just stopped being recruited mass-murdering psychopaths from the scum of the universe, and started being intolerant xenocidal asshats, who also happened to be mass-murdering psychpaths..

Back when, when the SM would gun down IG units that were in their way to get to battle faster, and drive LR's over the top of anything that didn't dodge fast enough

Also when the game didn't ake itself so fething seriously, and Ward had yet to be hired

Part of the fun iis that the game does take itself serious, when it clealy is not.

**Ascalam**

True nuff, but when the players get into fist-fights over discrepancies in the fluff (it happens) or the pronunciation of a race/character's name (it's not a CEEEETAn you a-hole...it's a Ker-Taaahn) then the players have apparently missed the point.

40K isn't serious business (though it thinks it is) but i've seen players get more riled up over it than is good

Occasionally i'm one of them, then i sit back and ask myself 'what does it matter if the Necrons aren't Necrons anymore, or the Grey Knights went Radical? It's just fiction... go back to your orks and have a Larf and a squig beer

'

Suffering the fanbois and the wandering tactical advisers may make you grit your teeth, but is it really worth 20-life for killing them with a metal dread in a sock?

**RicBlasko**

Zinderneuf wrote:For me, not very, even when I'm playing minis, and less so when I do rpg, whether Dark Heresy, Inquisitor, or original Rogue Trader.

All of my campaigns have included non-canon elements, some made up by GW at various times, and later discarded, such as the Star Child, the Illuminati, and the Sensei. Others I made up out of whole cloth, like my minor chaos powers, the Wolf, the Serpent and the Spider, or the campaign that culminated in my characters helping to create a new Eldar God, to bolster that flagging race.

Why? Is my stuff better than the current canon?

No, but my stuff is unknown.

The 40k universe is supposed to be about dark secrets, but the problem is that the average player going into a 40K campaign knows what to expect. How many people in the 40K universe actually know about the ordo malleus, the names of the four chaos powers, or even what the emperor really is? However, every player knows all of these things, so where is the sense of mystery?

In my games, I have generally told the players to throw out everything they know about the 40K universe when they sit down at the table, and be prepared to learn as they go along.

I have gotten a mixed reception to this. The majority of players seem to accept that more fun can be garnered if they don't know the whole situation, but a surprising number seem to want to play canon and nothing else.

Understand that I don't really change much in the grand scheme of things. The imperium is still autocratic, the inquisition is still a terror, the space marines still fight the orks. What changes is the stuff behind the curtain. Such as:

What if the emperor is really a servant of chaos, and his plan of salvation if a sham? What if he really is chaos' plan to destroy humanity, and must be removed if the race is to regain its freedom?

What if the squats were destroyed by the imperium, who pinned it on the tyranids for some mysterious reason (this one is not original with me)?

What if the reason that the squats were destroyed is that they actually created the perfect tyranid "bug repellent", and the imperium wants the tyranids kept around to cull enemy races, and undesirable elements among humanity?

What if a rogue adeptus mechanicus found a way to accelerate human evolution, and it was possible to create a race of fully evolved humans who could throw off chaos?

etc.

Mini wise, I like it to be somewhat close, or at least something silly can string it together. Chaos and Ultramarines vs Orks and Nids...well Chaos Marines hated Xenos too, and um...Humans first, trators second...good enough for me.
RPG, like Dark Hersey, well then I want it spot on. Every RPG from Vampire, to AD&D and D&D and Cyberpunk have books upon books, Starwars even has movies and books out there. I am playing that game, because of all of the backstore, it's my job as a player not to cheat and use the info my character does not know (metagame). Thats the thing with being a role player, and role playing games.

**Connor MacLeod**

It's hard to balance structure and open-endedness, but its probably worse to go too far over to structure because then nothing ever changes, things become dogmatic, and the universe stagnates. It was already doing some of that once they stopped halting the plot much past 999.M41, after all. I mean how many people spend time speculating about 'will they advance the plot with the next edition?'

open endedness creates problems too as pointed out, as nothing stays fixed and this can 'destroy' things certain fans like . We've seen this alot with 5th edition and its caused some understandable outrage.. but to be blunt this has ALWAYS happened in 40K to one degree or another. 1st and 2nd editions suffered some pretty dramatic changes (and it caused outrage from what I have observed - cf Squats) and even 3rd edition did some of that. I dont think 4th edition did much, though, but its enough to establish something of a pattern.

Like I said before, its not a religion and usually they leave enough 'leeway' to let people tailor things to suit their own purposes even if they don't like it, but for some reason it will still irritate people that the changes still occur. I frankly find that a tad worrying becuase of the whole 'dogma' thing. Star Wars had plenty of that dogmatic BS happen and it didn't turn out well when it happened.

**Zinderneuf**

RicBlasko wrote:
Zinderneuf wrote:For me, not very, even when I'm playing minis, and less so when I do rpg, whether Dark Heresy, Inquisitor, or original Rogue Trader.

All of my campaigns have included non-canon elements, some made up by GW at various times, and later discarded, such as the Star Child, the Illuminati, and the Sensei. Others I made up out of whole cloth, like my minor chaos powers, the Wolf, the Serpent and the Spider, or the campaign that culminated in my characters helping to create a new Eldar God, to bolster that flagging race.

Why? Is my stuff better than the current canon?

No, but my stuff is unknown.

The 40k universe is supposed to be about dark secrets, but the problem is that the average player going into a 40K campaign knows what to expect. How many people in the 40K universe actually know about the ordo malleus, the names of the four chaos powers, or even what the emperor really is? However, every player knows all of these things, so where is the sense of mystery?

In my games, I have generally told the players to throw out everything they know about the 40K universe when they sit down at the table, and be prepared to learn as they go along.

I have gotten a mixed reception to this. The majority of players seem to accept that more fun can be garnered if they don't know the whole situation, but a surprising number seem to want to play canon and nothing else.

Understand that I don't really change much in the grand scheme of things. The imperium is still autocratic, the inquisition is still a terror, the space marines still fight the orks. What changes is the stuff behind the curtain. Such as:

What if the emperor is really a servant of chaos, and his plan of salvation if a sham? What if he really is chaos' plan to destroy humanity, and must be removed if the race is to regain its freedom?

What if the squats were destroyed by the imperium, who pinned it on the tyranids for some mysterious reason (this one is not original with me)?

What if the reason that the squats were destroyed is that they actually created the perfect tyranid "bug repellent", and the imperium wants the tyranids kept around to cull enemy races, and undesirable elements among humanity?

What if a rogue adeptus mechanicus found a way to accelerate human evolution, and it was possible to create a race of fully evolved humans who could throw off chaos?

etc.

... it's my job as a player not to cheat and use the info my character does not know (metagame).

Oh, don't misunderstand me. I am a decent rpger, and can roleplay without giving myself the benefit of things I should not know, and I have played with people who can do this.

What I'm saying is that I think it is more fun for the players if there are major, campaign effecting things they don't know.

Look at it like this. You and I are roleplaying Bob and Rob, a couple of Hobbits.

Bob: I say, Rob, I hear that some enemy from the south is coming up to the shire with loads of goblin men. Shouldn't we inform thw Shiriffs or organize a resistance or something?

Rob: Nah, Bob, I shouldn't worry about it.

Bob: WTF?

Rob: No need for that language Bob. Here, just try to look at things existentially. Now, since we know that Frodo is going to drop the ring in the crack of doom, Merry is going to kill the Lord of the Nazgul, and Aragorn is going to be king..,

Bob: Oh, I see. We're bit players, so nothing we do really matters anyway.

Rob: Exactly! Now, let's just steal a keg from the Prancing Pony, raid farmer Maggot's fields for some potatoes and mushrooms, and find a nice hollow tree to ride this whole thing out. Afterwards we can come back, tell stories of adventures, and get drinks on the house. Just remember never to try to upstage Sam or Frodo.

Bob: Sounds like a plan!

**Luco**

Canon is stretchy. I stretch it till the fluff nazis come down swinging hammers onto my head. I mean, its not entirely outside of canon, but it takes a stretch of the imagination.

**vodo40k**

I like to try and be as close to "established" fluff as possible, with a few minor deviations. One of the strong points of 40K is its such a big universe with such a rich background there is no end to the opportunity of making up your own fluff (although as said you cant do stuff like Chaos GKs and lady marines). Some fluff, especially the very early stuff (all the stuff in the "realms of chaos" books ect) I often have to make my own opinions on, this git allot harder after Matt Ward changed the Necron fluff (but i dont see it as a bad thing).
When it comes to actually playing 40k there is only so far you can apply the fluff to a game. You can use it as a setting but NEVER EVER try to apply 40k fluff to models and rules, they should be treated as separate entities entirely.