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I like to run 2 platoons, I am debating whether to put PW on my srgs in each blob

CCS Lascannon, Plasma gun, Vox and MoO, camo cloaks
Lord Commisar

1st platoon, PCS - 2 flamers, 1 hvy flamer, vox PW on Lt.
30 man blob, 3 GL, 3 AC, 1 vox
commisar - pw

HW Lascannon team
HW Motor Team

2nd platoon, PCS 2 Melta, 1 plasma, vox - PF on Lt.
20 man blob, 2 lascannons, 2 plasma guns, 1 vox
commisar - PW

HW AC team

This is almost always the start of any IG blob army i build off of. If an enemy targets the HW's then he is ignoring the HW in the blobs. Blobs and HW are almost always deployed in cover and in areas that can mutually support each other. CCS is deployed in cover and does not move.
PCS's are disposable OSH1T counters..... tanks crashing your line, send in PCS2, hordes crashing your line send in PCS1 to purify the area with promethium.

Using LRBT variants, Vets in chimera's (with melta of course) and MultiLas Scout sents and ratlings are a great way to round off your list.

I do not go in for all vets in valks or all vets in chimeras lists... i have seen them loose too many times at my local meta... i would rather have more quantity than quality in my guard army.... I really want to get some penal legionaires as suicide/objective holders.

Watch the movie Enemy at the Gates... the Russians' turned back the Nazi tide at Stalingrad through superiority of numbers, that's how I like to play my guard....

Quantity has a quality all of its own.

~Lion~

Ailaros wrote:Yeah, they're fragile, but so is an AV12 vehicle, and nobody complains about mech guard being too fragile to be viable.

An AV12 vehicle can't be killed by 4 bolter shots. They're far more durable than a HWT. They also cost a lot less.

I run a 30 man Plasma blob (No pistols, although that might change here soon) and a 20 man las/plas blob.

Seeing as how lascannons and plasma cannons are both AP2, that group can shread MEQ easily while camping a home objective.

Seeing as this topic is entitled: What's your favorite way to gear up your IG blobs? rather than: What is the best way to gear your IG blobs, I thought i'd share my opinion

I often play Gun Line Guard and I enjoy combinig 3 Infantry squads and giving them 3 Auto-cannons and a Commissar.
I also combine 2 Infantry Squads and give them 2 Missile Launchers and a Commissar thus making full (and often effective) use of my 5 Infantry Squads per Platoon Command Squad.

Most of the time i equip all sergeants and Commissars with Power Weapons because almost every army i play against uses a good number of Close Combat units or will tactically distract my gunline with a throw away but survivable unit (i.e. Space Marine Tactical squad; I on hit 4+, wound on 5+ then they take 3+ Sv) in assault but with the Power Weapons they are better able to hold their ground or atleast deal a little more damage before they are totally wiped out.

What i do with the Platoon Command Squad is dependant on the points limit and my opponent.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

Joey wrote:An AV12 vehicle can't be killed by 4 bolter shots. They're far more durable than a HWT. They also cost a lot less.

That's never going to happen, though, or if it does, it will be after it will matter

I mean, the point of long-range shooting is the kind of damage that they put out early on, before other, more effective stuff gets in melta range or close combat. Comparing them in this light, you can see what I'm talking about. Let's say you're up against long fangs, and they throw 6 missile launcher hits at you on turn one. Against an autocannon HWS, you get 5 wounds and 2.5 that stick after cover (if the .5 doesn't wound, you're still looking at a half chance of running, so they're basically gone). Compare that to a hydra, and you've got 2 pens and a glance which puts down .333 destroyed, .24 weapon destroyed, and several chances to stun or in other way stop it from shooting.

So you can see that yes, the chimera chassis is slightly more durable during the first couple of turns, but they're not far and away better. Plus, there's always the half chance that the HWS takes orders, giving it a better alpha strike capability than the hydra.

Plus, once you get into bolter range, you're also in melta range, or close combat, which shreds both of them easily.

Yes, HWSs are fragile, but so are their AV12 alternatives. The vehicles are MORE durable, but not WAY more durable. If you're willing to take a little on an already fragile, high-power unit and instead take a slightly more fragile, higher power unit that also scores, HWSs are for you.

TheCaptain wrote:So if I field Ailaros' Ultrablobs, would supplementing them with a few AC HWT's be viable for anti-transport?

I did that for awhile, and was rediculously unlucky with them.

I'd still take some sort of support to carry the long-range into mid-game a bit, but I think I'd rather do a heavier gun than autocannons, myself.

Ailaros wrote:

Joey wrote:An AV12 vehicle can't be killed by 4 bolter shots. They're far more durable than a HWT. They also cost a lot less.

That's never going to happen, though, or if it does, it will be after it will matter

I mean, the point of long-range shooting is the kind of damage that they put out early on, before other, more effective stuff gets in melta range or close combat. Comparing them in this light, you can see what I'm talking about. Let's say you're up against long fangs, and they throw 6 missile launcher hits at you on turn one. Against an autocannon HWS, you get 5 wounds and 2.5 that stick after cover (if the .5 doesn't wound, you're still looking at a half chance of running, so they're basically gone). Compare that to a hydra, and you've got 2 pens and a glance which puts down .333 destroyed, .24 weapon destroyed, and several chances to stun or in other way stop it from shooting.

So you can see that yes, the chimera chassis is slightly more durable during the first couple of turns, but they're not far and away better. Plus, there's always the half chance that the HWS takes orders, giving it a better alpha strike capability than the hydra.

Plus, once you get into bolter range, you're also in melta range, or close combat, which shreds both of them easily.

Yes, HWSs are fragile, but so are their AV12 alternatives. The vehicles are MORE durable, but not WAY more durable. If you're willing to take a little on an already fragile, high-power unit and instead take a slightly more fragile, higher power unit that also scores, HWSs are for you.

The vehicles can also move, meaning it's very difficult to deny LOS to them. 3 lascannons may not always be able to shoot at anything worthwhile, especially if you deployed first.
Their damage output isn't high enough to justify the high price and low survivability. They will only twin-link half the time, the rest of the time they will be getting 1.5 hits 0.75 after cover. That's probably not going to hurt anything much. HWT are not devestators.
If i was supporting blobs (as seems the purpose of this thread) I'd much rather some hydras/manticores.

I have to say I think Joey is right here. HWTs cost is not justified, because their firepower AND durability does not seem good enough. Hydras/manticores/vendettas can support the blobs better. Higher power, better survivability. Vehicles are better on the paper AND in the actual game. I played HWTs sooooo many times and they almost never did anything. Problems with them: they do not kill infantry/destroy vehicles often, they do not pass leadership tests often, there is a problem to deploy them (you will probably not move them and your opponent will hide so you can not shot with all of them plus they are quite big units and are taking a lot of place in deployment zone, making everyone vulnerable to large blasts), they are good target for both anti-infantry and anti-tank fire, they can not survive in CC against absolutely nothing, they are too costly. And so on. I field them because they are cheap (money wise) and good looking (yes, I do care how my army looks)

And yes the vehicles are WAY durable. You did the math, Ailaros. What is normaly good enough to kill a HWT has only a small chance to take out AV12 vehicle (or no chance, in case of anti-infantry weapons). Yes, you can stun the vehicle. But you can not compare stunned vehicle to destroyed HWTs. Stunned vehicle will shot another turn, it will also atract your opponents firepower. HWTs is just dead, another possible killpoint for the enemy of yours.

HWTs only big advange is that they are troop choice.That means they can capture points (in the game they will propably die horribly, but they CAN capture the points), they can be deployed during Dawn of war and it also means they do not use the Heavy slot in FOC, but that is important only when you have something to put in that slot. And there we are, back to manticores and hydras, good heavy choices...or maybe some Rapier if you like imperial armour rules (experimental one).

The balance as always is - hydra can be potentially taken out by 1 shot - or at least stopped shooting for one turn. HWS will, even if shot by a lascannon, still be able to return fire from 2 bases the next turn. One of the keys to an all infantry list is that it completes ruins an oppponent who fills his list with melta/lascannons etc. Rather than those weapons killing 100pt+ tanks they are wiping out infantrymen and they don't have the volume of fire to kill enough models to stop the return shots. Large blasts can be an issue for the HWS but there aren't that many large balsts in the game - normal blast templates should only hit one base - 2 at the most.

While I think that the hydra is one of the best units in the game, not just the codex, it only really works where you have an adundance of other armour around, otherwise they are going to take all the high strength shooting.

A Lord Comm is almost essential when running more than say 2 HWS to ensure high leadership - for both orders and morale checks. I agree that deployment is a nightmare for getting them all on the table. To be honest though, if the placement of a HWS alters the enemy deployment away from one flank then the unit has possible paid for itself anyway ...

So you're adding a Lord Commissar now? That's another 70 (?) points.
No one said "derp always take as many hydras as possible derp", obviously it's always going to depend on your list.
Oh and enemy lascannons will find it easier to kill a HWT than AV12. They'll need a 4+ to penetrate that, only 2+ to wound HWT and with Instant Death you're looking at a Morale check at leadership 6.

ruminator wrote:The balance as always is - hydra can be potentially taken out by 1 shot - or at least stopped shooting for one turn. HWS will, even if shot by a lascannon, still be able to return fire from 2 bases the next turn. One of the keys to an all infantry list is that it completes ruins an oppponent who fills his list with melta/lascannons etc.
...

Well, Hydra can be taken out by 1 lucky shot, that is true. But the same goes with HWS (because of the moralce check). Except that the shot which can destroy Hydra needs bigger luck and except the fact that S6 shots are quite useless against hydras and devastating against HWS .

One of the keys to an all infantry list is that it completes ruins an oppponent who fills his list with melta/lascannons and that means you do not use HWS in all infantry list, because it does not ruin an AC/LC/ML shot. If someone is running all infantry, he should avoid vehicles and HWS.

I've always run my blobs as the following:

2 commissars, both with pw,
4x10 man squads, meltagun, sgt with pw and mb. and also each squad has a lascannon.

Means in my lists i can sit back in kp games and pop light vehicles and have the option to break the blobs into 2 x 20 man ones if the enemy is not cc orientated or i need more troops or 1x42 man blob with masse sof pw attacks and 4 lascannons and meltaguns to ruin transports or termies.