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I think we're forgetting a major contender here:
3x Tyranid Warriors with either Scything Talons + Rending Claws or Scything Talons + Devourers + Barbed Strangler.

That's 9 T4 4+ Save wounds, 4 S4 attacks on the charge, rerolling 1s to Hit and potentially getting Rending depending on how you equip them. If you go the Devourer/Barbed Strangler route, they could be even more potent. Plus they're fearless and have a decent chance to up any GK Justicars trying to Force Weapon them.

Hmm. 6 grey hunters with a standard (reroll all offensive 1s once per game) and a flamer are pretty lethal to anything stupid enough to get close, and add up to 100 points exactly.

However, I think I'm gonna go for 4 eldar jetbikes with a shuriken cannon T4, a 3+ save, and fast enough to stay away from everything that's been mentioned so far, save perhaps the BT missile launcher, which can be dealt with by Jump, Shoot, Jump...

10 hormagaunts with toxin sacs and adrenal glands.
They're fast, they'd close 24" in two turns. If they survived the shooting phase long enough to get where they're going they would bring 3 attacks each at I6, S4 with +4 poison and re-rolling 1's to hit. The biggest draw back: no frags.

Outside of that, nids really only have massed termagaunts to fall back on.

Lets do another one:

20 Termagants vs. 10 Shootas with Boss with PK.

24", no Shooting at all.

18" (4+ Cover)
10 Orks inflict 2 dead Termagants

12" (4+ Cover)
10 Orks inflict 2,1 dead Termagants
18 Termagants inflict 0,5 dead Orks (+ 1 wound on Nob)

6" (Orks charge, Tyranids fire)
15,9 Termagants inflict 2,65 dead Orks

CC
15,9 Termagants kill 2,2 Orks
4,65 Orks kill 4,1 Termagants

CC 2
11,8 Termagants kill 1,6 Orks
4,65 Orks kill 1,9 Termagants

CC 3
9,9 Termagants kill 1,4 Orks
3,1 Orks kill 1,5 Termagants

CC 4
8,4 Termagants kill 1,2 Orks
1,7 Orks kill 1 Termagants

Termagants win.

Veteran IG squad with demo doctrine

str 8 ap2 large blast will destroy anything under 100 pts

Math hammer doesn't work, the dice gods will alter your games on a whim.

I would say 20 gants. Or in such a small point value situation I would actually go with 10 firewarriors. Sure only 5 of them hit a turn but that is 5 str 5 AP 5 hits a turn at 30 inches. That extra 6 inches is an extra turn of firing.

Wounding on 2s or 3s against almost every other troop in the game is going to be great. Thats 21 wounds on those 20 gants for example (3 turns of normal ranged firing 1 turn of rapid fire) And at ap5 if they aren't in cover you wipe the squad before they even get to fight.

Against your 5 man marine squads they average a dead marine a turn. Marines have to make a choice. Keep advancing (so unable to fire back) or attempt to get within 24 inches and then fire their bolters back. But 10 firewarriors will beat the marines due to it being 4v10 before the marines are even in range to fire back.

I know that it wouldn't fit the restrictions, but I was curious of how 2 (not a legal squad even) grey knight terminators kitted out to 100pts actually would fare against some of these more reasonable choices given here.

Any one care to comment?

GK's cheapest troop choice for this would be a single paladin all kitted out with a pick of NFW and MC weapons. Expensive Paladin possible is MC warding Stave and MC Stormbolter at 85 pts. And even 2 standard oaladins are too expensive and require Draigo!

Dabedman wrote:I know that it wouldn't fit the restrictions, but I was curious of how 2 (not a legal squad even) grey knight terminators kitted out to 100pts actually would fare against some of these more reasonable choices given here.

Any one care to comment?

I'd say not too well if any of the squads bring a meltagun.

Kevlar wrote:

Dabedman wrote:I know that it wouldn't fit the restrictions, but I was curious of how 2 (not a legal squad even) grey knight terminators kitted out to 100pts actually would fare against some of these more reasonable choices given here.

Any one care to comment?

I'd say not too well if any of the squads bring a meltagun.

yea, I can see how that would put a damper on their life expectancy.

But since no one played a meltagun, I was wondering how they would have done if I had tried/ been allowed to play them.
Don't have my codex, but 2 termies, both with mastercrafted falchions, That's 100, if my memory serves.

The things is, no one had brought any heavy weapons at all, most of the competition being kids without even a painted squad.

Dark Scipio wrote:Lets do another one:

20 Termagants vs. 10 Shootas with Boss with PK.

There's not really any reason to get a Power Klaw against Termagaunts, though. That's 4 boyz with shootas, and in all probability, more attacks in close quarters as well.

PKs are an enormous investment for a reason. There's no advantage to using a Power Klaw against low armor save, low toughness units, and a Nob already gets 5 strength 5 attacks on the charge just with a Slugga and Choppa. Plus, the cost effectiveness of a PK really comes in the fact that you're meatshielding it behind X numbers of boyz, so it becomes more effective the more boyz you have....with 10 boyz it wouldn't be cost effective against low armor save models, although it might still be a requirement for a slugga boy trukk unit, for any MC fighting or dealing with high armor save units or vehicles.

Matter of fact, you could field 14 shoota boyz with a Nob for the same cost.

I also don't understand where you're getting this 4+ cover save reliably at equal 6 inch intervals. First of all, a 4+ cover save is only offered in substantial cover, and notably, you didn't give the orks a cover save in spite of their standing completely still until the charge. Additionally, shootas are assault weapons so the Orks would be able to shoot in the shooting phase before their charge. But even granting that, with my modified (optimized) list in the same scenario,

24", no Shooting at all.

18" (4+ Cover)
14 Orks inflict 3 dead Termagants

12" (4+ Cover)
17 Termagants inflict 3.25 dead Orks (+ 1 wound on Nob)
10.75 Orks + 1 Nob inflict 2.45 dead Termagants

(ideally at this point Orks would advance another 6" in movement phase because they're getting outshot but ignoring that)

6" (Tyranids fire, Orks fire+charge)
14.55 Termagants inflict 3.64 dead Orks
7.11 Orks + 1 Nob inflict 1.55 dead Termagaunts

CC
13 Termagaunts inflict 1.78 dead Orks
5.33 Orks + 1 Nob inflict 8.0 (5 Nob Attacks + Furious Charge) dead Termagaunts
[ (5.33*.66*.66*.83*3) + (1*.66*.83*.83*5) = 5.78 + 2.27]

Ofc at this point the Termagaunts would run off the board but just for S&G

CC-2
5 Termagaunts inflict 0.68 dead Orks
4.65 Orks + 1 Nob inflict 3.98 dead Termagaunts

Obv Orks win Wagh

For even moar cheez you can choose slugga Boyz + a Nob.

12"

20 Termagaunts inflict 4 dead Boyz + 1 wound on Nob
Boyz advance 6 inches in movement phase, shoot
10 Boyz + Nob inflict 1.2 dead Termagaunts
Boyz charge 6"

CC

18.8 Termagaunts inflict 2.57 dead Boyz
7.43 Boyz + 1 Nob inflict 13.0 dead Termagaunts

(Yes, my math is correct there.)

WAAAAGH. ORKS WIN.

Dark Scipio wrote:You get it a bit wrong. It was an abstraction. The situation could be 36" start or even 48", so I just choose an avarage situation. It doenst matter if they run or not for an abstraction. I can let them run, an make the distance larger.
Further it should level out uncertainties, thats why the shoot at the same time.

The Frag never missed, because I set the hit level low (2) wich is not much for a BS4 Frag on 10 orks.

I didnt used preferred enemy or let the Templars charge, I just meant that could turn the tide. And yes Orks get assaulted a lot, not only when unlucky.

Templars dont fall back when they fail RZ.

1) How do you start 48" from those orks if you are on 30"x30" board, and the orks deploy second?
2) As I said, with BS4 a small blast misses its target completely about 40% of the time. In addition, the template is 1.5" from the hole, the orks can be 2" appart, making it very unlikely to hit two.
3) Black Templars do not get preferred enemy unless you have an emperor's champions. You can't have one for 100 points.
4) You are very unlikely to get the charge on a unit with fleet, which in a one unit vs one unit game those orks will always have.
5) Yes, they do. Models always fall back on a failed moral check, which RZ is.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Still a Templar loss, but get it right. You also can't break Templars in CC, as they're Fearless. You also assume a 24" distance: if the Templars go second they're gonna deploy further away to get more shots out of the missile launcher before the Orks get into CC.

As a final note, one could always switch the Plasma Gun for a Flamer and hope that Righteous Zeal gives you the charge.

As above, the board and deployment rules make it impossible for any model to start further away than 28" from the orks(orks deploy in the middle, you deploy in a corner), and that would most likely put you out of cover.
Agree, forgot the fearless part, but that doesn't really works for the orks, rather than against them. Hoping for RZ ist just that - hoping. RZ would have to take you within 12", out of cover and the orks had to be further away than Waagh!+Assault before that. Still not sure about the outcome if the orks get charged. I didn't want to show how awesome orks are, just that Scipio's math was completely wrong.

As for termagaunts vs boyz:
Without redoing the math, those number are pretty wrong again. Termagants should inflict much more wound on boyz during shooting, and boyz would cause more wounds during combat (forgot furious charge, again?)
Beyond that, the entire scenario is all but made up. Why are both side only moving 6"? Why aren't the orks shooting and charging?
In reality, I would probably move up, till I'm 16"-18" from them and just start shooting them. If they want to shoot back, they have to come closer and leave cover first, which they won't be able to half the time, thanks to instinctive behavior,

Ok, so I guess that it has been narrowed down to:
- Termagants
- Ork Shoota/ sluggaboyz

And to a lesser extent:
- Fire Warriors
- Black Templar Initiates
- Death Company Marines

Then, another question begs to be asked, what would be the worst choice for this?

I'd go with Grotz, 33 grotz. Would they be able to kill anything?

Dabedman wrote:Ok, so I guess that it has been narrowed down to:
- Termagants
- Ork Shootaboyz

And to a lesser extent:
- Fire Warriors
- Black Templar Initiates


Then, another question begs to be asked, what would be the worst choice for this?

I'd go with Grotz, 33 grotz. Would they be able to kill anything?

I would actually say Slugga Boyz would be a better choice than Shoota Boyz in the paradigm of the question, although both Shoota Boyz and Slugga Boyz, based on average probabilities, would defeat Termagaunts.

But if I had to bet on anything, it would probably be a 5 man Death Company.

Dabedman wrote:Ok, so I guess that it has been narrowed down to:
- Termagants
- Ork Shoota/ sluggaboyz

And to a lesser extent:
- Fire Warriors
- Black Templar Initiates
- Death Company Marines

Then, another question begs to be asked, what would be the worst choice for this?

I'd go with Grotz, 33 grotz. Would they be able to kill anything?

Actually you need a 10 point runtherd for every 10 gretchin, so 26 gretchin+2 runtherds would be maximum.

I have seen gretchin do ridiculous things, I wouldn't underestimate strength in numbers. You might not win all games, but you won't lose all of them either.

I think the worst choices would be tactical marines from any codex that can't get special/heavy weapons for squads of 5 (BA, DA, C:SM) or Nurglings.

TedNuget:
Shootaboyz can outshoot most troops in the game, I wouldn't pass up on that opportunity. The nob will make sure that you win combat anyways.

WAAAAAAAAAGH go orks and a nob with bp and pk and you can take on about everything that comes at you

How about 5 DE warriors in a Venom (with only 1 Cannon)

100 points exact. When someone gets too close you just fly away. You only get 6 shots from the cannon, but so what? 36'' range and can Flat Out away from harm.

That's two units though