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I recently won a very small tournament where the restrictions were:

- Max 100 points
- Only troops
- No terminator armor ( so no 2-man team of GK termies, for example)


I used my GK Strike Squad, 5 men, 4 swords and one justicar with a psilencer. Almost half of the competition went with necron immortals which were badly optimized since you can only get 5 in at 100 points. If you take 6 you end up at 102, which the TO didn't allow.
Other players went:
- Eldar Guardians
- IG Shock Troops
- Necron Warriors
- 33 Gretchin
- Space Marine Tactical Squad, Sergeant with Storm Bolter ( I guess, not 100% sure)
- Space Wolf regular marines

I managed to pull through, winning 4 out of 4 matches thanks to some lucky match-ups and a few lucky dice rolls. But I started to wonder who actually has the best basic troops at that point level.

I don't know if it matters, but the boards were about 30x30 inches (roughly 50x50 cm) squares with varied terrain on them.

Would love to hear something about this.

For 100pts I'd say 20 Termagants for sheer body count. Or 10 Devilgaunts for firepower.

IG can only take veterans since the smallest platoon is 170 points.
You could get a meltavet squad...

Justicar can't take a heavy weapon, only a Grey Knight can.

And with an extra attack and no better shooting prowess over a grey knight, he should have a NFW anyway.

My first thought would be an Inquisitor and 5 Death Cult Assassins, 19 power weapons attacks on the charge and Int 6 for most of them, but I'd be concerned at their staying power, mind you on a 30 x 30 board you are going to be pretty close at set up anyway,potentially 6" from the enemy right from the start so you'll close pretty quick.

Another on might be an Inquisitor in Power armour with 3 servo skulls. Warband of 5 Psykers and 2 Warrior Acolytes. That gives a large blast str 7 attack that will only scatter a max of 3" if you play it right. (Servo Skulls mean 1D6 scatter, Psyker BS 3). May not work but it would be a good lol trying to swat the other guys as they are running at you !

Not that it really matters for the discussion but 30"x30" is more like 76 cm square.

Could you bring a transport if it stayed under 100 pts? If so, 10 boyz with shootaz, a big shoota, and a trukk might be worth it just for the novelty of having the only vehicle around.

10 boyz with nob, pk, bp should kill about any troops choice at the same point level. Screw the trukk if you can get a pk instead.

Now, I see a few things that I think I might need to address, such as the fact that the guys in charge had a few funny ideas.

The guy with IG was allowed to use his shock troops, I think he had 9 of them or something like that.

Deployment was done so that we rolled to see who got highest, that person got to choose a side of the board to deploy on, max. 6 inches from the side, in squad coherency. The other person then had to deploy on the opposite side in the same fashion.

Also, I didn't even know that justicars couldn't take a heavy weapon, I just assumed that they had the same profile as the regular grey knights since it's not that clear in the codex and I have no prior experience with squad leaders...
Guess I have some changes to do.
Weird that no one commented on that, given that the tournament was in a GW store

Also, I seriously doubt that they would have allowed a trukk, and arn't DCA elite choices? At least in the GK codex they are, maybe in the SoB?

One guy said he was going to play something like 6 boyz and 3 nobz, but had forgot them at home. Sounded scary.

Personally id go with 7 necron warriors, there pretty decent just a little slow and can come back

I'd go with 5 non upgraded death company. Sure go ahead, kite me around, i'll just bolter the flip out of you.

5 Black Templars Initiates with Plasma Gun and Missile Launcher is 96 points. Frags are pretty nice at such a low level, kraks are dangerous for MEQ. Plasma is plasma.

If you excuse the PCS the Imperial Guard could put 20 basic soldiers on the battlefield. Start factoring Grenades and stuff you get messy.

Now I cant factor in too much sense I havnt played minus a dick around test with a friend but wouldnt this make some pretty good results?

Jidmah wrote:10 boyz with nob, pk, bp should kill about any troops choice at the same point level. Screw the trukk if you can get a pk instead.

Hm. Lets have a look.

How about the:

5 Black Templars Initiates with Plasma Gun and Missile Launcher is 96 points.

Lets say there are 3 shooting phases (12",18",24"), two with cover before Close Combat.



24":

Orks: Out of Range

Templars:
3 Bolters, hit 2 Orks, wound 1, kill 1
1 Frag Missle, hit 2 Orks, wound 1, kill 1
1 Plasma, hit 0,6 Orks, wound 0,6, kill 0,6

2,6 dead Orks
0 dead Templars

18"
Orks: Out of Range

Templars:
3 Bolters, hit 2 Orks, wound 1, kill 0,5
1 Frag Missle, hit 2 Orks, wound 1, kill 1
1 Plasma, hit 0,6 Orks, wound 0,6, kill 0,3, kills 0,1 Templars

3,4 dead Orks
0,1 dead Templars

12"
Orks: 6,6 BP hit 2,2 Templars, wound 1,1, kill 0,4

Templars:
3 Bolters, hit 4 Orks, wound 2, kill 1
1 Frag Missle, hit 2 Orks, wound 1, kill 1
0,9 Plasma, hit 1,2 Orks, wound 1 kill 0,5, kills 0,1 Templars

5,9 dead Orks
0,6 dead Templars

Close Combat (orks assualt into cover)

Templars:
4,4 Templars, hit 2,2 Orks, wound 1,1, kill 0,9

Orks:
1 Powerclaw (4 attacks?): hit 2 Templars, wound 1,6, kill 1,6
2,2 Orks hit 3,3 Templars, wound 1,1, kill 0,4


6,8 dead Orks
2,6 dead Templars

Close Combat 2

Templars:
2,4 Templars, hit 1,2 Orks, wound 0,6, kill 0,5

1 Powerclaw: hit 0,8 Templars, wound 0,6, kill 0,6
1,7 Orks hit 1,7 Templars, wound 0,6, kill 0,2

7,3 dead Orks
3,4 dead Templars


I think its clear, that the Orks will win. But one shooting phase without cover, would have killed 1,5 Orks more before Close Combat, making it very hard for the orks to win.
Even worse a Templars assualt instead of Orks or when the Templars could have used their preferred enemy rule.

6 whyches/ hydra guantlets and a Hexatrix with agoniser =100pts

Yeah, I agree with Deadshot. 20 Termagants.

6 Space Wolves with a Plasma gun doesnt sound bad either.

Magpie wrote:My first thought would be an Inquisitor and 5 Death Cult Assassins, 19 power weapons attacks on the charge and Int 6 for most of them, but I'd be concerned at their staying power, mind you on a 30 x 30 board you are going to be pretty close at set up anyway,potentially 6" from the enemy right from the start so you'll close pretty quick.

Another on might be an Inquisitor in Power armour with 3 servo skulls. Warband of 5 Psykers and 2 Warrior Acolytes. That gives a large blast str 7 attack that will only scatter a max of 3" if you play it right. (Servo Skulls mean 1D6 scatter, Psyker BS 3). May not work but it would be a good lol trying to swat the other guys as they are running at you !

Not that it really matters for the discussion but 30"x30" is more like 76 cm square.

That Inquisitorial Retinue is only a troops choice (in the GK 'dex at least) if you take them with Coteaz. And since it's JUST troops choices, they're unfortunately an elites slot that STILL needs an HQ to unlock them.

So no, not troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm just gonna say Dire Avengers though I have not thought this through...

Not that it really matters for the discussion but 30"x30" is more like 76 cm square.

Yea, that is true, didn't do my math right... point is that you could almost shoot a bolter at the other guys from turn 1 (often you could because of deployment).

Dark Scipio wrote:

Jidmah wrote:10 boyz with nob, pk, bp should kill about any troops choice at the same point level. Screw the trukk if you can get a pk instead.

Hm. Lets have a look.

How about the:

5 Black Templars Initiates with Plasma Gun and Missile Launcher is 96 points.

Lets say there are 3 shooting phases (12",18",24"), two with cover before Close Combat.

I think its clear, that the Orks will win. But one shooting phase without cover, would have killed 1,5 Orks more before Close Combat, making it very hard for the orks to win.
Even worse a Templars assualt instead of Orks or when the Templars could have used their preferred enemy rule.

Uh, there is a lot of wrong math going on here. In addition, outside of transports you should think of shoota boyz, not sluggas.
- Even in case of sluggas, the ork would have run each turn, crossing those 24" in two or three turns, rather than four
- You discard the possibility of a frag missile missing entirely(about 40% chance iirc), and any ork player not keeping 2" distance between 10 models is really terrible. So more like one .5 or less wounds a turn.
- 0.66 plasma hits wound .55 of the time, not .6
- Sluggas have four attacks on the charge, not three
- Charging Boyz wound marines on a 4+, not 5+
- Templars do not have Preferred Enemy if no Emperor's Champion is present.
- Unless the ork is very unlucky, templars should never get the charge on them. Even if they do, they would strike last, due to not getting frags for free.

Assuming templars start:
Round 1
Your five templars cause 2.05 casualties by shooting
8 Orks move 6", shoot .77 marines dead

Round 2
You cause 2.05 casualties
6 Orks move 6", shoot .66 marines dead
Templars are forced to test due to Righteous Zeal. If they fail they fall back.

Round 3
Four marines cause 2.38 casualties due to rapid fire.
Orks move 6", declare Waagh!, charge(into cover)

Four marines attack, two hit, one wound, .83 taken on nob
Four boyz attack, 6 hits, 3 wound, 1 dead marine
Nob attacks, 2 hits, 1.6 wounds, 1.6 dead marines
Templars lose combat by 1.77
If they break they are most likeley escorted off the board due to orks being unlikely to swipe them.

Round 4, assuming combat continues
Two marines attack, one hits, .5 wound, .41 wounds on boyz
Four boyz attack, 4 hits, 1.3 wound, .44 dead marines
Nob attacks, 1.5 hits, 1 wound, one dead marine

Templars have been wiped out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dabedman wrote:One guy said he was going to play something like 6 boyz and 3 nobz, but had forgot them at home. Sounded scary.

That would have been illegal anyways
You only get one nob per mob of boyz.

You get it a bit wrong. It was an abstraction. The situation could be 36" start or even 48", so I just choose an avarage situation. It doenst matter if they run or not for an abstraction. I can let them run, an make the distance larger.
Further it should level out uncertainties, thats why the shoot at the same time.

The Frag never missed, because I set the hit level low (2) wich is not much for a BS4 Frag on 10 orks.

I didnt used preferred enemy or let the Templars charge, I just meant that could turn the tide. And yes Orks get assaulted a lot, not only when unlucky.

Templars dont fall back when they fail RZ.

ARRRG, cant take wracks
3 wracks + Venom with double cannon = 100 points

wyches would die to dakka.

DE warriors, 10 with a splinter cannon is 100 pts. Hug cover!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
think boyz are the best option.

Purifiers...

The ability to hose every model in a unit before blows are landed -every single turn- and then follow it up with at least a 4 initiative power weapon is pretty damned hard to beat for 24 points a model. Plus it's an MEQ with 2 attacks base and a Storm Bolter.

I doubt there is much of anything that can beat Purifiers point-for-point, but I'd love to be proved wrong.

Edit: for instance, some of you are mentioning Boyz as being the best option for this list, and based on average probabilities, in your typical game slugga boyz would get hosed by Purifiers before striking a single blow.

However, purifiers are only troops if you can get Crowe with them, which you could not.

I won´t disagree with you, 4 purifiers could probably crush most things, but you just cant get them in this scenario.

Dabedman wrote:However, purifiers are only troops if you can get Crowe with them, which you could not.

I won´t disagree with you, 4 purifiers could probably crush most things, but you just cant get them in this scenario.

I'm sorry, I broke the rules!

I'll say Slugga Boyz then

Plus they come in squads.of 5-10 costing 120 base.

Deadshot wrote:Plus they come in squads.of 5-10 costing 120 base.

Didn't stop people from taking 4 Immortals

Edit: I am an idiot. I apologize to both of you.

TedNugent wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Plus they come in squads.of 5-10 costing 120 base.

Didn't stop people from taking 4 Immortals

5 actually, thats 85 points

So, I was going to say that guard would lose this one, but if the rules are funny, then they might stand a chance. This is because you can take a PCS with 4x plasma guns and a power weapon for 100 points, which would have no trouble handling any non-horde option. Depends on if they'd allow for just a PCS by itself, though.

Otherwise, I'd probably say the biggest mob of shoota boyz you can take would probably be the best here.

Jidmah wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:

Jidmah wrote:10 boyz with nob, pk, bp should kill about any troops choice at the same point level. Screw the trukk if you can get a pk instead.

Hm. Lets have a look.

How about the:

5 Black Templars Initiates with Plasma Gun and Missile Launcher is 96 points.

Lets say there are 3 shooting phases (12",18",24"), two with cover before Close Combat.

I think its clear, that the Orks will win. But one shooting phase without cover, would have killed 1,5 Orks more before Close Combat, making it very hard for the orks to win.
Even worse a Templars assualt instead of Orks or when the Templars could have used their preferred enemy rule.

Uh, there is a lot of wrong math going on here. In addition, outside of transports you should think of shoota boyz, not sluggas.
- Even in case of sluggas, the ork would have run each turn, crossing those 24" in two or three turns, rather than four
- You discard the possibility of a frag missile missing entirely(about 40% chance iirc), and any ork player not keeping 2" distance between 10 models is really terrible. So more like one .5 or less wounds a turn.
- 0.66 plasma hits wound .55 of the time, not .6
- Sluggas have four attacks on the charge, not three
- Charging Boyz wound marines on a 4+, not 5+
- Templars do not have Preferred Enemy if no Emperor's Champion is present.
- Unless the ork is very unlucky, templars should never get the charge on them. Even if they do, they would strike last, due to not getting frags for free.

Assuming templars start:
Round 1
Your five templars cause 2.05 casualties by shooting
8 Orks move 6", shoot .77 marines dead

Round 2
You cause 2.05 casualties. 25% casualties. If Orks fail Ld, they fall back
6 Orks move 6", shoot .66 marines dead
Templars are forced to test due to Righteous Zeal. If they fail they fall back.

Round 3
Templars advance due to Righteous Zeal, move 6 and charge, striking first because they're not charging out of terrain.
1.666... dead Orks. Orks swing back. 5 Orks swing back (Nob takes one wound to keep a boy alive), 0.555... dead Marines. Nob attacks, 1.25 dead marines. Combat tied.

Round 4
Templars kill less than .5 Orks, Orks wipe Templars.

Still a Templar loss, but get it right. You also can't break Templars in CC, as they're Fearless. You also assume a 24" distance: if the Templars go second they're gonna deploy further away to get more shots out of the missile launcher before the Orks get into CC.

As a final note, one could always switch the Plasma Gun for a Flamer and hope that Righteous Zeal gives you the charge.