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Heavy stubber is S4 thus a defensive weapon so yes, Battlecannon+Lascannon+Heavy Stubber if you moved up to 6"

All three.

You should ask yourself what you intend to shoot with a Battle Cannon and a Lascannon that a Heavy Stubber will help against. Honestly the only Leman Russ I would consider upgrading with a Heavy Stubber is the Punisher - that way you aren't diluting your AP3/2 wounds with AP6.

As a general rule, I would avoid Pintle Weapons, as 10 points goes a long, long way toward other weapons (and often entire units) in the Guard. Plasma or Heavy Bolter Sponsons can be a solid buy for a Leman Russ - the Executioner should have Plasma Sponsons as a default.

If you must use Pintle weapons, go for the Heavy Stubber on Chimeras. It's superior in every way to the Storm Bolter, and contributes to the anti-infantry capacity of the tank both on the move and while standing still.

Pintle and sponson weapons on most tanks are generally not worth it. You want to keep your tanks cheap and not make them expensive with situational upgrades that you can't use all the time.

About the only time sponsons are worth it are on the Leman Russ Executioner because 5 plasma cannon blasts are just that nasty. The tank is crazy expensive though.

Now if you could get a coaxial weapon that would make your vanquisher cannon or battle cannon twin linked if you hit with it now that would be worth it.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:- 40pts for plasma sponsons that you cant shoot if you move, and have a %33 chance of hitting... waste
- 30 pt melta sponsons, you need the enemy to drive withing melta range for you to use them... waste.

Just to throw it out there -- if your using a demolisher cannon, aren't you already within 24"?

Isn't a tank normally a great target for a demolisher cannon anyway? At 24", a MM has a better chance of destroying AV 12 or less than a lascannon due to the AP1.

Just food for thought. A marine pays 50 points for a single MM bike. 30 for 2 (even at BS 3) seems like a good deal.
As an eldar player, Im a lot more worried about boosting my serpent within 12" of a LRBT with 2 MM sponsons. Even with energy shields, the damn things are better at blowing me up than lascannons.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:The strengths of the LRBT lies in its turret weapon (you pick, plenty of advice on forums), its armor and its price.

This is very true, but under 5th edition, one weapon destroyed makes that turrent useless right? So if you take a stock Russ then a weapon destroyed result makes your Russ near useless -- tank shocking and HB shooting aside.

Sponsons mean that your russ has the ability to deliver firepower even with the battle cannon shot off.

I'm not saying that sponsons are awesome. I'm just saying they are not total fail.

labmouse42 wrote:Isn't a tank normally a great target for a demolisher cannon anyway? At 24", a MM has a better chance of destroying AV 12 or less than a lascannon due to the AP1.

The main issue is that you'll usually be firing only one Multi-Melta at BS3, which is unreliable to say the least. Demolishers don't get a lot of chances to stay still, as they generally need to shuffle about to avoid becoming Melta/Assault bait. Plasma Sponsons are at least not as hindered by BS3 as direct-fire weapons, and they reach out to 36" to boot. Russes are much more durable when they can loiter outside Meltagun range, which is another downside to the 24" max on the Multi-Melta sponsons.

Plasma Sponsons are undoubtedly worthwhile on the Executioner, if only for the synergy. As mentioned, they also maintain killing power even if the turret is blown off. They are also a great asset when you want to re-position, as 4 Plasma Templates are generally just as nasty as 5.

labmouse42 wrote:Sponsons mean that your russ has the ability to deliver firepower even with the battle cannon shot off.

Yes, but that's just one damage result.

If you get shaken, stunned, wrecked or exploded, the sponsons arent' doing any more damage than a tank without sponsons, it's just that the tank is a more expensive waste. In a way, you can think of sponsons like extra armor or track guards, they're an expensive way of mitigating the damage of a single vehicle pen result.

The only thing that makes sponsons more worth it is that sponsons also work when your tank has no results on the damage table, while those other ones only kick in when the tank already starts taking damage.

labmouse42 wrote: I'm not saying that sponsons are awesome. I'm just saying they are not total fail.

I think this point was missed guys. I should have been more clear.
Let me give examples of fail.
* Eldar Shining Spears
* Ogyrns
* Kroot
* Flayed Ones
There is lots of fail in the game. Years of updates and bad design have made it common.

The world is not black and white. Just because something is not awesome does not mean its not fail. Anything that is not a necron wraith is not fail. There are decent things in the game, that have advantages and disadvantages.
Sponsons are such an example. Their OK. They give some benifits but there are other places you might want to spend your points. Your not going to get laughed at at tourneys if you took them, and they are not auto-take.

i have been running HB sponsons and HB-hull with my LRBT in my IG gunline. I normale play vs SM so i just stick them behind some guards so they dont get assault. I know that they get cover but i would rather them get that then a assault on my LRBT in turn 2. Also 20 points for 6 HB shots on a SM squad is mean.

kronk wrote:I like the idea of Plasma Cannon Sponsons on the Leman Russ Executioner. Otherwise, I'm not that big of a fan of sponsons.

Kronk said it first and best.

There are a lot of things that points could be better spent towards for an IG army rather than side sponsons. The only exception should be the Leman Russ Executioner, because 5 plasma shots are going to ruin that Termie Squad's day.

I'd say on chimeras it's actually more fun to have a heavy stubber since you can shoot your multi-laser, and heavy stubber at infantry for the most part.

I've also done a vet "bolter boat" before with HB + ML + heavy stubber + heavy bolter or auto cannon/las cannon in the fire point with some plasma guns to round out the ranges. It's a decent unit to camp objectives and can swat at alot of different things.

But yea, overall, not really all that worth it to be honest for the sponsons nor the pintel mounted SB/HS in 80% of scenarios.

My guard uses 2 Vanilla Russ with heavy bolter hull and pintle heavy stubber. No sponsons, so they'll be moving 6" and firing everything.

Normally they're firing into infantry groups (MEQ mostly). I'm a firm believer in quantity over quality with my guard, the more saving throws my opponent has to take, the more they'll fail.

It's rare I'll shoot them at vehicles, I've got other things for those.

grendel083 wrote:It's rare I'll shoot them at vehicles, I've got other things for those.

To be fair, though, a russ is pretty good against most vehicles as well. Vehicles are big targets that are easier to hit with BS3 blasts, and S8 ordnance is pretty ace. Agaisnt AV12, you cause a penetrating hit if either of the two dice rolls at least a 5, which isn't that bad. With a lascannon a LRBT is sufficiently good at taking down lighter targets to make me call it an anti-tank weapon. That and with the blast, it still makes lots of infantry options cry.

I like to think of it as a toy breaker, as any super-fancy unit that isn't AV14 or in terminator armor is able to be splatted. Less so if it only has a hull heavy bolter.

Of course, if you're going with a hull bolter and don't want to spend the 15 points to upgrade to a lascannon, then you can get two more heavy bolters for basically the same price. In any case, I'd probably want to upgrade the russ with SOMETHING so that it's not literally a single weapon destroyed result away from being pretty much useless.