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Assuming this is the only sportsmanship related issue during the match so far, I'd probably allow an opponent to do it once. Call it a mulligan if you will. I'd also not ding someone's sports if they won't allow the mulligan.

Even in a competitive setting, I'll let an opponent redo just about anything. Forgot to roll a psychic test last phase? Go ahead. Starting moving before rolling for reserves? Go ahead. Forgot to move a unit into assault? Go ahead. Anything that won't be too disruptive or slow the game down ("Since I forgot to ____, I'll need to redo my entire turn...") is fine with me.

If your opponent started measuring, sure, you're within your rights. Their shooting phase has started, if just barely. I still don't find it very sporting though (not that I'd personally ding you on sports for this alone). I will always prefer a win I can attribute to my own strategy to a win that I owe to an opponent's mistake.

If no dice have been rolled in the 'next' phase, I will let them go back. If they've dropped a die, I probably wouldn't.

OP your poll and question don't line up.
This issue is more shades of gray than B&W.
I can't respond properly without a huge discourse.
However in YOUR situation, I would have let him "do over".

Bookwrack wrote:Meh, in your stated example I can find no justification for saying 'no,' and I can understand him for begrudging you for doing so.

This. If he had started shooting, no way in a tournament. Here, he had finished moving and hadn't moved on to other actions yet (other than verbally). The second phase doesn't really start until you begin actions for it. I'd have docked you on sportsmanship too, and probably refused to play you in the future. If he had rolled even a single die for shooting though, I'd be on your side. Here, you were in the wrong. I'm not casting an actual vote, because it's too much of a grey area question, with me just disagreeing with you in your example.

In a tournament match where stakes are higher, I'd say no.

However, in a friendly game I'd say of course.
I was once at my local stores vets night and a worker from another store was there playing against one of the regulars in a friendly game. I was sat next to the game at a paint-station working on some SM when I overheard a dispute between them.

I didn't get the entire gist of what was happening but from what I saw it was something to do with distance and shooting. The regular was arguing his case that he was in the right whilst the employee was laughing stating "no, of course not".

The two went at this for a few moments before the employee simply turned around, putting his palms flat on the game-board before leaning in and very bluntly stating:

"You should remember where you are and who you're talking to".

He wasn't being cute either, he was actually being very serious and pretty much saying "I'm right and you're wrong because I work for GW. Deal with it, or you can go home".

That'll always stick with me because the employee didn't even work at said store.

After the game had finished, which the employee won, the regular said:

"Yeah, good game but we both know what you did was unfair" to which the employee replied "Pft. What're you talking about?". The regular was quite humble and simply packed up his army saying "you know what I'm talking about". The two exchanged a look of contempt and that was that.

My point is, it's just a game, like any game. It should be fun for both parties and as long as nobody cheats then a fun time can be had by all. In situations like the one I saw, I'd never be so obnoxious as the employee was to the regular. If ever in doubt, I'd ask for the opinion of a 3rd party like a TO or store assistant.

^I would have reported him for that, or never returned to that store. No one has the right to be that much of a douche. I would have shoot the regulars hand tho, for being a real man.

To the OP, if he had begun his shooting, then no. As he hadn't actually shot anything you should really have let him move the scouts.
In a friendly game, minor errors like moving units that haven't before shot in the shooting phase are fine but at a tournament...
C'mon, people should know what they're doing.

If you can't stand the heat, why're you in the kitchen?

DaemonJellybaby wrote:^I would have reported him for that, or never returned to that store. No one has the right to be that much of a douche. I would have shoot the regulars hand tho, for being a real man.

Well, it wasn't my place to get involved and just decided that if I ever got paired up with him for a game I'd decline, even if it meant missing out.
Of course, if he had spoken to me like that, I'd of given him something to complain about but then again, I have a pretty short fuse

Phototoxin wrote:For the Nth time 40k isn't magic the gathering, one doesn't officially go into their different phases and there's no take-backs.

1) It's a game of fething toy soldiers.
2) He hadn't actually shot at anything, it's not like he was waiting to see if something died before using the information to his advantage
3) This being so docking sportsmanship was correct.

As an aside enemies shouldn't determine spotsmanship, logically speaking there's no reason not to give everyone the lowest possible in order to boost your chances of winning.

Why shouldn't there an anouncing of phases? Any game where both players are responsible for the game state should be anouncing their phases. That is how you keep the Take-Back Cha-Cha from happening. This is the big problem with the 40k community right now. We loudly rail against GW about how it doesn't support tournaments, Then we rail about the TFG WAAC, then this post comes around saying it's just "a game of toy soldiers". Make a choice. If you want tournament games that run smoothly then be up front with your opponent. Accept your mistakes and learn from them.

As a personal rule I announce the phases I am in and what I am doing with each action. It makes it easier for myself and my opponent to follow what is happening in the game and not to forget what we are doing. Talk bad about MTG all you want, but this habit makes for more friendly, good sportsmanlike games.

Besides Sportsmanship is a joke. It's a softscore that penalizes you for playing hard. Seperate the Sportsmanship and Painting from the battle. IMHO at a tournament with a decent turn out there should be the following winners

Top 3 (The best 3 generals based on hard metrics)
Best Appearance (The army with the best appearance.)
Best Sportsman ( The guy that everyone agreed was the friendliest player)

Both you and your opponent were correct: you had every right to call it the way you did, and you opponent was not wrong in claiming it was unsportsmanlike.

Firstly, I think give the OP a break Yes, I would - as most people have stated - have been sportsmanlike in this situation, but at the same time it was a tournament and obviously you were taking it seriously. I suppose I would consider the player as starting their shooting phase if they'd selected a target, but as said I would still have let them go back and correct their mistake.

Emerett wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:Meh, in your stated example I can find no justification for saying 'no,' and I can understand him for begrudging you for doing so.

I hate people like you in tournaments. So much

Say whaaaat?

What on earth are you talking about? The OP broke the rules, and was being a douche.

Secondly, in a more broadly related issue, anyone that treats a tournament game any differently from a 'friendly' game is a two-faced jerk-off. It's just a game of toy-soldiers for christ-sakes, and I don't care WHAT the prize is, just take a step back, relax, and give your opponent a break until they give you a reason not to. It's players who put on their 'competitive' hats in tournaments that give tournaments a bad name.

Further, Sports scors are important to penalise people acting like douches, such as the OP. Without them, people can act like this free of repurcussions and win an event not because they deserve to, but because they are dicks. Are those the people we want winning tournaments?

I like how this is still going, and I'm still being insulted. Yet I'm the db here.

Yep. That makes sense.

XVII Legionaire wrote:I like how this is still going, and I'm still being insulted. Yet I'm the db here.

Yep. That makes sense.

I personally have chosen not to insult you. However, you did post a story on an Internet forum of how you pulled a dick move during a tournament, so I'm not sure exactly what you were expecting.

azazel the cat wrote:

XVII Legionaire wrote:I like how this is still going, and I'm still being insulted. Yet I'm the db here.

Yep. That makes sense.

I personally have chosen not to insult you. However, you did post a story on an Internet forum of how you pulled a dick move during a tournament, so I'm not sure exactly what you were expecting.

QFT

Now this is just too rich. The OP creates a slanted poll with a leading question. He is then so hurt by the community call out that he renames the thread "Closed" and deletes the OP. He's even a poor sport in his thread that he created to defend himself against being called a poor sport. Wow. Just wow. I love the Internet.

Lobukia wrote:Now this is just too rich. The OP creates a slanted poll with a leading question. He is then so hurt by the community call out that he renames the thread "Closed" and deletes the OP. He's even a poor sport in his thread that he created to defend himself against being called a poor sport. Wow. Just wow. I love the Internet.

lol!