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Thank you all for your insight and opinions.

They wont make to many mistakes after losing to them.

Just say no.... I bet they wont do it again EVER!

Simply put, You made a mistake, you don't get a 'do-over'.

Meh, in your stated example I can find no justification for saying 'no,' and I can understand him for begrudging you for doing so.

You forget, you didn't do it. You remember better when it's a big deal to forget something.

I forgot to assault with a unit just today, no biggy.

Voted No... but...

I can see both sides here... to me its not chess... once you've started the next phase (requires doing something, rolling dice, moving a model, etc) too late. But if you said "done!... wait, I forgot to move them" then you should be fine moving that unit.

Honestly, if I won I wouldn't care. If I lost and it was really close, I might have a hard time not feeling a little bitter and marking you down for sportsmanship... there's a small element of being TFG when you don't let him finish a move BEFORE he actually fired a shot.

Remember this is a tournament.

In a friendly I'd most likely call the guy a noob and let him make his forgotten assault etc....

When money is on the line or 2 box sets of a full army....

Suck it up buttercup.

Depends on the atmosphere of the game. In a tournament, campaign, or an intense casual game, I probably wouldn't let them. In a friendly game, then yeah I'd let them. I'd hope they'd do the same for me if nothing's really at stake.

Lobukia wrote:Voted No... but...

I can see both sides here... to me its not chess... once you've started the next phase (requires doing something, rolling dice, moving a model, etc) too late. But if you said "done!... wait, I forgot to move them" then you should be fine moving that unit.

Honestly, if I won I wouldn't care. If I lost and it was really close, I might have a hard time not feeling a little bitter and marking you down for sportsmanship... there's a small element of being TFG when you don't let him finish a move BEFORE he actually fired a shot.

Well, under normal circumstances it's not a problem. I just feel that, going into a game with something on the line, you more-or-less have to expect that sort of thing. The whole "give no quarters and expect none in return" kind of mentality.

^ this.

I think you had every right to, but considering it didn't affect the game at all, it was not very sportsman like. No one could argue that you weren't within your right and most would do the same in your situation, but that doesn't mean it was sporting.

IIt's your responsibility to make sure you make all the moves you need to, but at the same time I expect my opponent to be flexible where appropriate.

XVII Legionaire wrote:Don't worry, this isn't a rules question.

A few months ago I was playing a tournament where my opponent overlooked moving his Space Wolves scouts into assault range of my IG veterans before announcing the start of his shooting phase. While he hadn't yet fired his first shots, I denied his request to correct his oversight on the basis that it was a tournament, and so the stakes were higher than just a friendly game. While he accepted my right to do so, he later denied me sportsmanship points for doing it.

Firstly, if he hasn't actually rolled any dice yet, then I'm pretty sure he is still in his movement phase. You are free to deliberate about targets at any time, and there is no required declaration of 'I am now ending my movement phase and starting my shooting phase' and as such he can move whatever he wants until he starts taking shots.

Secondly, if someone has legitimately forgotten something that can be easily remedied, you are a douche if you do not let them do it. I don't care what the stakes are, it's still a game of toy soldiers. Chill out.

Thirdly, if you decide NOT to allow it, it is your right as you mentioned. However, if your opponent thinks you are being unreasonable he is also within his rights to give you a crap sports score. In this case, I think he made the right call.

I allow moves/actions to be re-done as long as the decision to do so isn't based on knowledge gained after the move in question.

If he hadn't shot anything or run anything, the shooting phase hadn't practically started.

40k doesn't really support a verbal end of phases.

I don't like the "yes or no" poll option. Also, the question you ask in your poll is different than the question you ask at the end of your post.

I would let an opponent correct lapses in memory if they were minor and recent, and if i was not in any sort of contention in the tournament.

If I was at the top tables I would not allow take backs.

XVII Legionaire wrote:Don't worry, this isn't a rules question.

A few months ago I was playing a tournament where my opponent overlooked moving his Space Wolves scouts into assault range of my IG veterans before announcing the start of his shooting phase. While he hadn't yet fired his first shots, I denied his request to correct his oversight on the basis that it was a tournament, and so the stakes were higher than just a friendly game. While he accepted my right to do so, he later denied me sportsmanship points for doing it.

My question is this: is it really unsporting to not allow someone to go back a turn phase to make a potentially game-changing move that they forgot to do? Or is it the players responsibility to make sure they move everything they need to before announcing the next phase?

If her hadn't done anythign in the next phase then i would let him go back. I mean if you made it known to him that he was no in assult or did like a jump in the air for being happy that they were now in assult range thats different. But if he hadn't done anything then yeah you should have let him go back and move them.

Hence one more reason to keep sportsmanship awards out of the hands of your opponent...

If you are in a tournament setting, you should know how the game works. If you forget a move/shot/assault opportunity, tough.

Even in a tourny this is still just a game and is supposed to be for fun and hanging out with people who have the same interests. In alot of the tournies I paly in we help each other out no matter what because we enjoy the company we have. Where we live our gaming community for 40k and fantasy isn't very big so we keep it fun. Everything from sound effects to laughing at our own bad dice rolls or that bone headed mistake we made moving something we shouldn't have or firing at the wrong target, etc. Gaming is supposed to be sporting but also fun not like real life where you can't do go backs. It also sounds like in your queiry that he had not actually begun firing so....

XVII Legionaire wrote:Don't worry, this isn't a rules question.

A few months ago I was playing a tournament where my opponent overlooked moving his Space Wolves scouts into assault range of my IG veterans before announcing the start of his shooting phase. While he hadn't yet fired his first shots, I denied his request to correct his oversight on the basis that it was a tournament, and so the stakes were higher than just a friendly game. While he accepted my right to do so, he later denied me sportsmanship points for doing it.

My question is this: is it really unsporting to not allow someone to go back a turn phase to make a potentially game-changing move that they forgot to do? Or is it the players responsibility to make sure they move everything they need to before announcing the next phase?

In your situation it was unsporting of you. He was right to dock you sportsmanship points, as you were not being a "good sport"

Your opponent was still in his movement phase since he did not declare any shooting yet. As you are not required to announce the start of any phase, doing so is just a verbal reminder for your opponent. Him saying "Okay the shooting phase starts' ohh crap, forgot to move that unit, one sec (Moves unit) okay now my shooting can start" is perfectly fine.

XVII Legionaire wrote:Don't worry, this isn't a rules question.

A few months ago I was playing a tournament where my opponent overlooked moving his Space Wolves scouts into assault range of my IG veterans before announcing the start of his shooting phase. While he hadn't yet fired his first shots, I denied his request to correct his oversight on the basis that it was a tournament, and so the stakes were higher than just a friendly game. While he accepted my right to do so, he later denied me sportsmanship points for doing it.

My question is this: is it really unsporting to not allow someone to go back a turn phase to make a potentially game-changing move that they forgot to do? Or is it the players responsibility to make sure they move everything they need to before announcing the next phase?

So not only were you acting douchy you were also breaking the rules. He did the right thing knocking down your sportsmanship score, thats fairly obvious.

For the Nth time 40k isn't magic the gathering, one doesn't officially go into their different phases and there's no take-backs.

1) It's a game of fething toy soldiers.
2) He hadn't actually shot at anything, it's not like he was waiting to see if something died before using the information to his advantage
3) This being so docking sportsmanship was correct.

As an aside enemies shouldn't determine spotsmanship, logically speaking there's no reason not to give everyone the lowest possible in order to boost your chances of winning.

Bookwrack wrote:Meh, in your stated example I can find no justification for saying 'no,' and I can understand him for begrudging you for doing so.

I hate people like you in tournaments. So much.


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SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Hence one more reason to keep sportsmanship awards out of the hands of your opponent...

I totally agree, I think this should really be reworked in tournaments.

Ordinarily I would, but not for somebody playing Space Wolves; they've been given advantages enough already.

So he hadn't started firing and just because he announced he was starting his shooting phase you wouldn't let him move something he forgot to move? That's called being petty. No you don't deserve sportsmanship points.

In the 2011 Cricket test series between England and india one of the batsmen walked off for lunch before the Umpire called time and the Indians bowled him out. After thinking it over the Indians did the sportsman like thing and allowed him back on, noting that if they are going to bowl him out they will do it fairly rather than on a technicality (the game is still in play until the umpire says so). That's test cricket, the highest level of the game. It's called sportsmanship, it doesn't go out the window because the stakes are higher.

I voted yes, because unless the prize was a suit of legit power armour, fully workable and everything, or something else equally ridiculously amazing, I can't think of any reason why not to.

The game is for fun. Its a hobby, it is to relax. The same as sports, when it comes down to it it is for relaxation and fun, regardless of the stakes (excepting aforementioned power armour).

Having a cracker of a game trumps pretty much everything for me...unless its against my brother...unbeatable bastard...(I kid, even then its still for fun...mostly)

Both. you're not being sportman like in any sense of the word, unless you have a definition that says otherwise. but it was his own foolish move.

my reaction would of course change depending on how much I'm winning/losing and by how much I might have paid for entry. but you wouldn't want to play against me, I'm both lenient and forgetful in games with 100+ models on my end.

English Assassin wrote:Ordinarily I would, but not for somebody playing Space Wolves; they've been given advantages enough already.

Oh you

Given that verbally announcing his shooting phase wasn't set in the rules, and that he hadn't started firing, you didn't actually have the right to refuse him. The fact he let you refuse shows that you both fudged the rules there (which is easy enough to do). He had every right to feel that you were being unsporting.

Him docking sportsmanship points is totally valid, in my opinion.

Well I can honestly say I wasn't planning on being repeatedly called a deuche.

It's not a though I flat refused to allow it. He asked if I minded, and I said yes.

Also, while he hadn't yet rolled any dice, he had picked a target and checked range, which I consider to be starting the next phase.

Just for clarification.

Wait, he didn't actually do any shooting?
I voted no because I thought he'd had an actual shooting phase...but if it's just "Right onto shooting phase...oh whoops I forgot to move those guys" then yeah, a dick move on your part.