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DeathReaper wrote:Except that The Sanguinor can not bench press a Land Raider, Mephiston Can...

Even if the Lord of cheese did bench press a LR *eyeroll*, I'm sure it was the hydraulics in his power armor doing most of the heavy lifting.

sub-zero wrote:Even if the Lord of cheese did bench press a LR *eyeroll*, I'm sure it was the hydraulics in his power armor doing most of the heavy lifting.

That is only true if you ignore his stat line.

Zweischneid wrote:
Draigo CC: 5 Attacks (Str. 6 w/HH), 3,3333 hits resulting in 2,222 wounds and 1,111 wounds after saves (4++): Calgar has taken 1,261 wounds total on average

Most of this math is incorrect.

DeathReaper wrote:
Until you realize that Mephiston kills Calgar on round 2.

6 attacks on the charge, forces a LD check or Mephiston gets to re-roll to hit and to wound. Calgar has no chance unless he gets lucky with his 4++, but average rolls Mephiston hits 6 times, wounds 6 times, Calgar saves 3, round 2 Mephiston hits 5 times, wounds 5 times Calgar saves 2 or 3, Calgar dies. and has only done about 3 of Mephistons 5 wounds.

Correct in a straight up fight. But Calgar can kite Mephiston with AP2 Bolters and all his rerolls. And (usually) surviving the first round of combat, he can always disengage thanks to God of War and further kite him with AP2 bolters even if Mephiston happens to catch him once or so thanks to wings. But yes, straight-up, Mephiston wins.


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DarknessEternal wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:
Draigo CC: 5 Attacks (Str. 6 w/HH), 3,3333 hits resulting in 2,222 wounds and 1,111 wounds after saves (4++): Calgar has taken 1,261 wounds total on average

Most of this math is incorrect.

Which part?

Draigo wounds on a 2+. Throws your whole chain off.

Zweischneid wrote:Calgar can kite Mephiston with AP2 Bolters and all his rerolls. And (usually) surviving the first round of combat, he can always disengage thanks to God of War and further kite him with AP2 bolters even if Mephiston happens to catch him once or so thanks to wings. But yes, straight-up, Mephiston wins.

Calgar can not kite Mephiston around, as Mephiston can move like jump Infantry, and has fleet.

Combat Tactics and God of War don't let you automatically get out of combat either. You actually have to get away. Calgar's I5 is unlikely to do that against Mephiston's I7.

i reckon kharn the betrayer would mop the floor with everyone, because he has been alive & killing for ten thousand years, he must be doing something right, if its loyalist i'd say one of these three calgar,draigo or mephiston

However I do like the Calgar terminator model (which I've just bought) guess who my Chapter Master will now be.

By the way this not just limited to guys that have rules, any alive space marine is fair play.

- ironhandstraken

DarknessEternal wrote:Draigo wounds on a 2+. Throws your whole chain off.

True. I stand corrected.

Except that The Sanguinor can not bench press a Land Raider, Mephiston Can...

Dude, are you for real? Sanguinor, fluff wise would beat the living daylights of stupid-ass mephiston.

Sorry to the OP for how off-topic this is getting. Anyways, I dont think you could really measure the strength of an astartes fluff-wise. This is because every author is different (ala Matt Ward).

Draigo wrote:

bmoleski wrote:

Draigo wrote:

bmoleski wrote:

Kevlar wrote:This has been math hammered to death. Abby is usually the toughest "human" on the table, but gets beat by some xenos like the swarmlord. But if Abby rolls enough attacks with his demon sword he can kill anything.

Well they did ask the strongest Space Marine........

Realistically no single model should stand toe to toe with the Swarmlord for very long.

Realisically? lol Cause huge super humans fighting an alien is realistic at the start? hhmm Sounds like you live in an intersting reality.

You misinterpreted what I meant. I meant in an actual game on the table the Swarmlord should defeat pretty much any single model. That's what I meant to say.

Are you saying Swarmlord is stronger then a daemon primarch? Or a greater daemon? Cause various marines have defeated those. I think youre overestimating the swarmlord. If an incarnation of war or an avatar of a god can lose to a marine then so can swarmie.

What he is saying, is that the Swarmlord is prob one of the best. You don't get demon primarchs in the RAW. Swarmlord beats ingame greater daemons by going first, making em WS 1 and forcing you to re-roll invulnes. As of yet, I've only seen Draigo go toe to toe with the swarmlord, and that was a fit of insane luck, and force weapons. Even then, it took several rounds of CC.

But OT:
I think the Lord of Death has it for strongest marine, until it is revealed he actaully is a daemon


Von Chogg

Von Chogg wrote: You don't get demon primarchs in the RAW.

We have official stats for daemon primarch Angron.

Strongest space marine? The emperor.

We're done here.

juraigamer wrote:Strongest space marine? The emperor.

We're done here.

The Emperor is not a Space Marine. He's "just" a human biologically I would presume.

Emperor and primarch don't count sorry

Arjac and it's not even close. Hits always on a 3+, S10, thunder hammer, gets a bonus attack from his storm shield, has 3+ invuln with said storm shield, can throw said hammer before the charge at S10 AP1 and drop you to I1, and to top it off, he's not independent, can be joined by a bunch of other termies, AND only costs 185 points.

No contest, go play test against him. On the charge he is unstoppable, on defense you can't target him with his buddies around. Good luck wadding thru 5 assault storm shield termies at I1.....

No really, this isn't even a contest, you may "claim" someone is better, but Arjac is the best. Logan Grimnar? Arjac is better.

Hell in his fluff it states, "Arjac Rockfist also known as The Man-Mountain, Grimnar's Champion and Anvil of Fenris is a Wolf Guard of the Space Wolves Space Marines Chapter, and the personal champion of the Great Wolf Logan Grimnar himself.

He speaks little, but he is not a lackwit. He knows full well that he will always be a warrior and not a leader. He is modest and unassuming in person, though he cannot deny his rare gift for crushing the mightiest of foes"


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AND he's eternal warrior. GOOD LUCK.

sfshilo wrote:Arjac and it's not even close. Hits always on a 3+, S10, thunder hammer, gets a bonus attack from his storm shield, has 3+ invuln with said storm shield, can throw said hammer before the charge at S10 AP1 and drop you to I1, and to top it off, he's not independent, can be joined by a bunch of other termies, AND only costs 185 points.

No contest, go play test against him. On the charge he is unstoppable, on defense you can't target him with his buddies around. Good luck wadding thru 5 assault storm shield termies at I1.....

No really, this isn't even a contest, you may "claim" someone is better, but Arjac is the best. Logan Grimnar? Arjac is better.

Hell in his fluff it states, "Arjac Rockfist also known as The Man-Mountain, Grimnar's Champion and Anvil of Fenris is a Wolf Guard of the Space Wolves Space Marines Chapter, and the personal champion of the Great Wolf Logan Grimnar himself.

He speaks little, but he is not a lackwit. He knows full well that he will always be a warrior and not a leader. He is modest and unassuming in person, though he cannot deny his rare gift for crushing the mightiest of foes"


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AND he's eternal warrior. GOOD LUCK.

That is impressive, we might have a winner here.

Calgar has twice as many wounds and attacks and is already I1.

Mephiston. The guy tore apart a Carnifex with his bare hands! C'mon!

In game, Calgar has powerfists, making him stronger than Mephy standard, but than he passes a Psychic test and boom, he strikes at strength 10, initiative 7, WS7, can cast and get Preferred Enemy, and can close in much faster thanks to another spell making him jump infantry. 5 wounds, T6 and 4 attacks. Still think Calgar's a match?