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Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




Alabama

Wasn't there a rumor a while back that GW was ramping up its tournament support? Guess that was BS.

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Cold-Blooded Saurus Warrior




The Great White North

You are right im not a tournament player.

I have zero interest in tournaments.

I am simply giving a recreational level perspective on why GW most likely pulled the plug on it.....

The perception (obviously it must be out there, since I have it too) is that tournaments congregate the comp players, or else why would you go if not for the competition of winning?

Comp players produce comp lists and disregard fluff based units etc... GW produces units that compete and be fluff based.... It it the power gamer who disregards the fluff units in favour of the winning units..........

Rec level players are more interested in FUN. I believe this is what GW is trying to achieve by its actions of late.... Casual gameplay etc......

Wether you agree with it or not.. simply means you will most likely move on to Warmachine where the "Comp" players will most likely flee too....

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Been Around the Block



Oakland, CA

It is a bad business decision for many of the reasons listed but it is also alienates someone who should be a powerful advocate for the GW product, the TO. Think about it. The average casual gamer knows how many people in the game? Half dozen? Dozen? How many gamers does the average Organizer know? 100? 200? How many are on their e-mail lists? I just checked. I have 350 different gamers on the QCR e-mail list. When I send the next update out that states simply that GW has withdrawn their support from the Indy GT circuit, how do you think that will sound to their customers? How about when I update the QCR participants (past and present) about the companies that are supporting QCR, what they offer, and links to their sites?

GW really just does not understand the goldmine that the Indy GT circuit is. It generates positive exposure to their product. QCR is held in Fort Mason, a very public place, and I answer a lot of questions. If that leads to just one new customer, that would likely pay for a great deal of prize support. Tournaments create great energy. People get armies done. People buy new models. Finally, it is a time and place that has anywhere from 50 to 5000 (how many at Adepticon?) of your customer there. All who have proven they spend several hundred dollars on your product. How many companies would love the opportunity that this provides?

QCR was financially sustainable prior to the “GT Circuit” and we thought long and hard about actually signing up. I remember having conversations with the group on how long this would last, so in the end it is no surprise.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Milisim-

I think you should try out a tourney before making pretty broad statements about them. The majority of people are attending to have fun. Sure you want to win, the game is a contest after all, but it is just a game. Power lists are represented at the top tables but also a good selection of non-traditional lists are also there, and do very well, at least in fantasy. I see harder lists played at GW stores quite frankly. I have made a slew of new friends and expanded my gaming experience at these events.

I am inferring that your primary objection is you do not like people you play to win. Fine, throw your first game and end up in the middle tables. There is less pressure to win since you have been knocked out of contention and you can enjoy a game with someone new.

Personally, fun for me is taking on a superior player and/or tackling a harder list then what I brought.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/29 00:53:26


 
   
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Fixture of Dakka






Milisim wrote:
I am simply giving a recreational level perspective on why GW most likely pulled the plug on it.....

The perception (obviously it must be out there, since I have it too) is that tournaments congregate the comp players, or else why would you go if not for the competition of winning?

Comp players produce comp lists and disregard fluff based units etc... GW produces units that compete and be fluff based.... It it the power gamer who disregards the fluff units in favour of the winning units..........

Rec level players are more interested in FUN. I believe this is what GW is trying to achieve by its actions of late.... Casual gameplay etc......


GWs old GT system invalidates everything you say and think about tourneys. Tourneys can be super casual and super hobby focused and still be awesome events and be on message with GWs goals. There is no such thing as tourneys being the opposite of hobby or casual... so if they want to focus more hobby or casual, discontinuing tourneys does nothing to cause that and actually harms that. Your perceptions are wrong.

Since you have never been you have no idea what GW used to accomplish or what the Indy events currently accomplish and you have no idea the type of people who go or why they attend.

I think GW simply doesn't have anyone qualified to run an appropriate event. 10 years ago, anyone who was willing to run an event migrated to GW. Many of the TOs today probably would have been roped in to doing GW events, many of the current judges and helpers at indy events actually have had experience helping GW run thier events. I hope that maybe they have decided to help indy events grow opposed to try to compete with them with half-assed events.

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Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

Well, looks like everyone is getting a taste of what they did to us BFG players. (A very small taste, granted, you still get support and codecies)

Not sure if anyone else mentioned it but in another thread it was brought up that they canned 'ard boyz too.


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Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

Milisim wrote:You are right im not a tournament player.

I have zero interest in tournaments.

I am simply giving a recreational level perspective on why GW most likely pulled the plug on it.....

The perception (obviously it must be out there, since I have it too) is that tournaments congregate the comp players, or else why would you go if not for the competition of winning?

Comp players produce comp lists and disregard fluff based units etc... GW produces units that compete and be fluff based.... It it the power gamer who disregards the fluff units in favour of the winning units..........

Rec level players are more interested in FUN. I believe this is what GW is trying to achieve by its actions of late.... Casual gameplay etc......

Wether you agree with it or not.. simply means you will most likely move on to Warmachine where the "Comp" players will most likely flee too....


There is so much wrong with what you just said, I honestly don't even know where to begin. You are making so many generalizations and assumptions that are hugely biased, that it's crazy.

Only recreational players play to have fun? What? That is sooooooo biased, so prejudicial of a statement and one of the fundamental reasons why the casual/competitive gamer rift exists. Tournament gamers are 99% nice, love the game/fluff and play to have fun. It's just that their idea of fun is different. Not bad, just different.

GW writes good rules that allow fluff armies to be effective as they are in the stories? Sometimes, but usually not. GW writes gakky rules, they just do. I question what goes through their minds. Play any other games and you will learn really, really fast just how bad GW rules are. It is not incumbent upon the player to play a certain way, but only within the boundaries of the rules. It IS incumbent upon GW to write better rules. They just don't.

Your perspective on why GW pulled the plug is 100% speculation. You are assigning your personal point of view to objective events which we have no explanation for. You have NO IDEA what GW's intentions are. You are guessing and you coul dvery well be totally wrong.

And we'll probably "flee" to Warmachine along with the other Competitive players? That is pretty lame, bud. For one, the competitive 40K scene is GROWING at a huge rate. Secondly, no one is fleeing, perhaps other than to get away from crappy attitudes like yours.

Lastly, if you have no interest in tournaments, why are you involved in this conversation other than to try and poo poo on the parade?

It never ceases to amuse me that the supposedly "WAAC" gamers get painted as jerks, when we are accepting of all ways to engage in this hobby while the "casual" gamer only concerned with fun, goes out of their way to be negative.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/29 02:52:54


   
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

I play casually, and at tournaments.

My lists aren't all WAAC best-unit-spam builds. Most of them would probably be laughed out of the Army Lists section.

They are fluffy, and i have fun with them.

That said, tournaments do attract more WAACs than a casual gaming scene, as competition is the nature of the beast. We aren't all WAAC TFG's though

I live in Oregon. There isn't even a GW store here, let alone GW support for tourneys. The tourney scene is still fairly lively though

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Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

I think I got a little angry in my last post.

Ascalam has it. You can do both, be both and enjoy all aspects of the hobby. One isn't mutually exclusive of the other.

Tournaments are fun. Are their occasionally douchey guys? Yeah, but that is true of any situation.

   
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Sneaky Lictor




Sacramento, CA

Reecius wrote:Tournaments are fun. Are their occasionally douchey guys? Yeah, but that is true of any situation.

but the %s (and raw numbers obviously) are much higher in 40k (than in WHFB at least, not sure about WarmaHordes). I doubt many would argue otherwise.

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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

I would. The percentage of douches is tiny in both, and fairly similar, IME.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/29 03:56:14


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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Perrysburg, OH

Milisim wrote:
The perception (obviously it must be out there, since I have it too) is that tournaments congregate the comp players, or else why would you go if not for the competition of winning?

Comp players produce comp lists and disregard fluff based units etc... GW produces units that compete and be fluff based.... It it the power gamer who disregards the fluff units in favour of the winning units..........



I can say from experience that multiple events provide options for players of all type to shine. AdeptiCon, Daboyz GT, WargamesCon, Nova, and more all provide awards and all of the various hobby aspects from competitive play, appearance, team spirit, etc. They also offer awards for different factions (ie: Imperial, Heretical, Xenos and Hyrbrid for AdeptiCon). This promotes players to participate however they wish. The sheer creativity and variety of displays seen at events is simply amazing.

I can also back up Mike Brandt's numbers based on the survey data taken at AdeptiCon. The numbers are significant enough with total sales driven in purchases just for AdeptiCon hitting ~1.5-2% of GWs North American Sales. For a single, yearly event - that is definitely an impact to the company.

GW can ignore this market if they wish. However, the same driven individuals that make these events happen with great success can readjust their focus to other companies that wish to support their communities appropriately. Ultimately, the short term savings has a stronger potential to realize a long term loss in sales revenue.

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Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




Alabama

Yeah, its rare that I run into douches on the tournament scene. And generally the ones I run into are the Big Fish in a Little Pond types. The ones that are used to beating the people at his local scene, then he comes into the bigger pond and stands around the shop, admiring his own army and talking about what it can and can't do, rather than letting his generalship and army list speak for itself.

He usually loses in the second or third round and gets all grumpy when he realizes he's had it. I think a lot of people call the winningest players the "douches" or "WAAC", but that is either envy or misunderstanding of the better player's skill level. Either way, both players should have fun, but also realize that it is not your opponent's job to make sure you're having a good time. You have to put into that pool too.

As to "fluff" in the tournament scene, I only play tournaments. I haven't played a casual game in a long, long time. There is something about prizes at stake that really gets my blood pumping. At the same time, I try my best to fit my fluffy units into my competitive lists. Some of my best lists have been on the tails of Asurmen leading a Dire Avengers squad, or Dark Reapers lighting up gunlines from afar. These are generally not considered competitive choices, but I do well with them because I enjoy playing them and so I learn the nuances of fielding them. My recent list has a full unit of Wraithguard - will I do well with them? Probably so. This is not because I am cocky or a "douche", but because I am confident in my skills with the rest of my army, so I know that I can compensate for the weakness of the Wraithguard (which is not many, outside their slow movement in a fast army!).

Maybe instead of chiding others for what they enjoy and looking through a prism of bias at the tournament scene, you should attend one or two. Maybe don't even play - just observe - and see if it is for you. I bet you'll find that there aren't quite as many douches as you think there are. I've met many friends through the tournament scene - people that I am happy to see every time we get together to play. The people that are douches usually find themselves sitting alone at the lunch break.

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Sneaky Lictor




Sacramento, CA

Mannahnin wrote:I would. The percentage of douches is tiny in both, and fairly similar, IME.

well, the beauty of it is that everyone has a different opinion/definition of "douche"! Which probably contributes to how/why a lot of douches misidentify/can't identify other douches...

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Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Hmmm, let's get back on topic! MVBrandt's really insightful numbers from page 1 are getting lost in a debate that's pretty clear from the outset. Casual gaming and tourney gaming can easily coexist, and we don't have to rehash that here (i.e. don't feed into it).

I think the tourney circuit can survive just fine without GW support. As others said, maybe even some good will come of this in a sense. Really doesn't make sense business-wise to me, but I think it could have a good end result in independent events being more "truly" independent and hosting a variety of systems for play. I know they could already and still get support from GW, but this could reinforce that independent mindset.

Personally, all my favorite tourneys have been run by independent groups (mikhaila's, the Inner Circle's, and hopefully soon, the Nova Open. I did go to one of MVBrandt's early outdoor "for charity" tournies in a park, small affair but fun, can't wait to see what he's turned his big monster tourney into now!). And this will be my first year going to Adepticon .

Keep on rockin', indies!!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/29 04:15:07


 
   
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Cold-Blooded Saurus Warrior




The Great White North

Like I said in my post the PERCEPTION (Be it right or wrong) is that tournaments and tournament players play power lists and are WAAC Players....


Of course my reason for GW is speculation..... GW is speculation based since they tell no one why they make crazy decisions and that is why we talk about them here on dakka..

I was simply stating perhaps they cancelled tournaments to focus on bringing a friendlier more casual environment to THEIR games system...

After all this is their game and they can do whatever they like with it including closing up shop and not selling anything ever again.....


It is my Impression that GW is just wanting to produce models and a game system to accompany them...

They arent in the business of holding tournaments etc... wether or not they produce revenue or not... they simply no longer have the desrire to do it...


People play MW3.... Thousands of players......... some join leagues to play in....... Without the leagues in MW3... the game still gets played.... Same with this business model.... At the end of they day you wont quit buying and playing GW simpoly because they arent doing a tournament in your area...... They know that.... and they are happy with that decision? Again Im assuming...


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Sneaky Lictor




Sacramento, CA

puma713 wrote:I think a lot of people call the winningest players the "douches" or "WAAC", but that is either envy or misunderstanding of the better player's skill level. Either way, both players should have fun, but also realize that it is not your opponent's job to make sure you're having a good time. You have to put into that pool too.

touching on my point that everyone has different definitions of "douche", I think a players list/tactics/competitiveness should not be taken in to consideration when players form opinions/judge of that persons "douchiness". I appreciate WAAC players, they're respecting the game and their opponent. However, when I think of wargaming douches, I think about finicky critics or people who insult/make sly remarks about you/your list/your army/etc. Basically the ones who are overly judgmental w/o being constructive. To me, those are the true douches.

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Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




Alabama

Ellipses are not a substitute for punctuation.

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Longtime Dakkanaut






Scyzantine Empire

puma713 wrote:Ellipses are not a substitute for PROPER punctuation.


Fixed that for you. Ellipses are a form of punctuation, after all.


This issue never was a problem for me since there was never an official GW presence in my area. All tourneys are indie and all prize support provided by FLGS owners. If they were given support through GW, they never made it known.

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Cold-Blooded Saurus Warrior




The Great White North

And last time I checked this was a TT Gaming forum and not english 101............ ......... ....... ....................... .......................................................... .................... ...................... ......................

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Longtime Dakkanaut






Scyzantine Empire

Milisim wrote:Also, the last time I checked, this was a TT gaming forum and not English 101.


Fixed that for you.

Please read the forum guidelines, specifically #5.

Otherwise I have nothing to add and apologize for going off topic.

What harm can it do to find out? It's a question that left bruises down the centuries, even more than "It can't hurt if I only take one" and "It's all right if you only do it standing up." Terry Pratchett, Making Money

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Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
Reecius wrote:Tournaments are fun. Are their occasionally douchey guys? Yeah, but that is true of any situation.

but the %s (and raw numbers obviously) are much higher in 40k (than in WHFB at least, not sure about WarmaHordes). I doubt many would argue otherwise.


Hahahaha

Oh please, do share these figures. I would love to see the actual douche/nice person ratio data you are drawing on to make that statement, as you clearly indicate that it exists.

Please tell me you were just baiting and that you really understand how absurd what you said was.

Again, the "casual" gamers casting stones and offering only speculation and opinions, while the "WAAC" jerks present sensible, fact backed arguments and encourage tolerance, and open mindedness. Hmmm.

Ah, whatever. It's a silly argument and I honestly don't know why I still get my hackles up when it rears it's ugly head. If those of you who have never even been to a tournament want to cast stones, it only reveals your ignorance. I really don't need to add to it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/29 05:02:17


   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

I'm just gonna poke my head in here for a second.

I'm like Milisim - I don't do tournaments, and have no interest in ever joining one myself. The only event I ever did that was anything like a Tournament was the latest Warmachine League.

But, here's where I diverge with Milisim - I think tournaments are a perfectly acceptable, even healthy aspect of the wargaming hobby. It's just a different part of it. Think of it like sports. Do some people play sports recreational? Sure. Do some people play sports in a tournament setting? Well, yeah. And you don't see them at each other throats, blaming each other for the poor state of their chosen game.

The reason why GW games shouldn't be played competitively? Because they're terrible. They're great if you want to push around painted little plastic and metal minis and make pew pew noises with, but for anything past that you're expecting too much.

It's why we see such a vibrant tournament community for games like Homachine and Magic - these are games with rulesets designed for competitive play. Hell, the 'rulebook' for Magic are a 192 page legal document.

But I don't see this as an excuse for GW to pull out completely from it's tournament scene. Whether they want to ignore it or not, competitive wargaming is here to stay - it's not a 'fad', like that whole internet business. They'd be better served by tightening up their rulesets and future army releases.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/29 05:23:36


   
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Sneaky Lictor




Sacramento, CA

Reecius wrote:
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
Reecius wrote:Tournaments are fun. Are their occasionally douchey guys? Yeah, but that is true of any situation.

but the %s (and raw numbers obviously) are much higher in 40k (than in WHFB at least, not sure about WarmaHordes). I doubt many would argue otherwise.


Hahahaha

Oh please, do share these figures. I would love to see the actual douche/nice person ratio data you are drawing on to make that statement, as you clearly indicate that it exists.

Please tell me you were just baiting and that you really understand how absurd what you said was.

Again, the "casual" gamers casting stones and offering only speculation and opinions, while the "WAAC" jerks present sensible, fact backed arguments and encourage tolerance, and open mindedness. Hmmm.

Ah, whatever. It's a silly argument and I honestly don't know why I still get my hackles up when it rears it's ugly head. If those of you who have never even been to a tournament want to cast stones, it only reveals your ignorance. I really don't need to add to it.


ehh, I just want to point out I have nothing against WAAC or tournament players, please see:
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:well, the beauty of it is that everyone has a different opinion/definition of "douche"! Which probably contributes to how/why a lot of douches misidentify/can't identify other douches...

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:touching on my point that everyone has different definitions of "douche", I think a players list/tactics/competitiveness should not be taken in to consideration when players form opinions/judge of that persons "douchiness". I appreciate WAAC players, they're respecting the game and their opponent. However, when I think of wargaming douches, I think about finicky critics or people who insult/make sly remarks about you/your list/your army/etc. Basically the ones who are overly judgmental w/o being constructive. To me, those are the true douches.


give me the (read: your) definition of a wargaming douche, and I'll start my research if you want "fact-backed arguments". but as for the facts I have, I can only give my own experiences, experiences of others I know personally, and the experiences reported by others (see the numerous "new to WHFB" threads started by 40k converts. I don't see much of the vice versa...). Plus again, it's hard for douches to recognize other douches. If one guy partakes in a type of douchbaggery, he probably won't acknowledge other guys doing the same douchebaggery as douchebags. Kinda like fake-tanned, popped-collared fauxhawk meatheads in New Jersey. So while one may say the casual player has a bias or skewed perspective, I'd argue so does the douchebag (again, whatever defines a douchebag).

oh, I should make an amendment to that last quote of mine. A player's list/tactics/competitiveness are still a-ok in my book. But if they're FOTM players (i would LOVE to see stats of 40k new codices played compared to WHFB new army books played), they're most likely giant tools, which aren't quite the same as douches, but really close... edit: also another amendment. rules bending (I don't want to throw out "cheater") is also douchebaggery. edit: also, sore loser, obnoxious winner - douchebags. ...guess my definition is growing the more I think about it!

anyway, I don't want to get too OT, this thread is about the tourney scene, and I'm merely stating 40k has a less desirable community (to the average person) than WHFB, regardless of tournaments. Of course, I know it's all relative to your location and its obviously a YMMV scenario. But we can discuss it in another thread if you prefer.

so to go back on-topc (didnt see this at first):
Smitty0305 wrote:I hate GW so much.....

They are going to kill their own hobby.

a guy from a local gaming store (one of the bigger ones in the region), who's passionate about his 40k, believes 40k will be overtaken as the top war game in a few years as GW will make 40k less desirable for its player base. Hard to believe, given the current tournament and sales numbers. But I definitely don't doubt GW has the unwitting capability to run 40k in to the ground.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/29 06:17:02


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Regular Dakkanaut




West Chester, PA

Just dropping in to add my 2 cents...

My club started MechaniCon the day GW NA cancelled the official GT's in 2009. That was the second time in less than 5 years that they cancelled the large events at the last minute.

This year, the NAIT Circuit has been cancelled.

These things just don't happen on a whim. Staff changes are a huge part, and when the Promotions/Community person leaves then you see a reboot with the whole system. In over 15 years, I have never seen the new staff member pick up where the old one left off. This year was very tough with Ed leaving and I don't think they could have prepared to replace him so quickly. The Indy circuit was Ed's brain child and although you can point out the flaws it was a genuine effort and I thank him for it.

I disagree with a bit of what was said here regarding the details about how things went down and why it is a bad move, but I am not here to argue the facts. Yeah, some events got included more easily than others and some TO scammed the system but those events have been covered over the past few years. Yes, it is clear than any form of Organized Play by a gaming manufacturer is beneficial to the company. I feel that had little impact on the decision to cancel the circuit this time.


For now, this means that 2012-2013's tournament circuit sponsored by GW is dead. Will anything ever develop again? I bet there will be something coming in the future and I will be content to keep my own plans moving forward without depending on GW support. If and/or when it comes again, then it will be a welcome bonus.

TO's from the Independent Circuit have started to join a Facebook group to coordinate our events and while the comments are private to the TO's, their Events are public for players to be able to see. I encourage all TO's to join and we will have a centralized meeting place for North American events coordination.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/256707011088137/

The Mechanicon 2015 Back to our roots - October 23-35, West Chester, PA 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Northampton

I find this disgusting.

I played in a lot of tournaments ranging from small tourneys in Canada, to the GTs here in England and I was hoping to get back into playing at them.

I heard about this from one of my long time friendly tourney rivals and I couldn't believe it.

Big big shame and yet another missed business opportunity by GW.

Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



Oakland, CA

Reecius-

Don’t apologize. I know where you are coming from buddy. It takes a lot of time, effort, and personal financial resources to put on a quality event and to have someone crap on it that has never bothered to play in a tourney pisses me off as well. In the end, it is just uninformed drivel driving an opinion like the one expressed.

Keep up the good work and I will see you at BAO next year.

-Michael
   
Made in au
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Australia

Leenus wrote:GW just doesn't get it. Lets do the math for them right now. You support 5 major events a year with $1,000 in GW merchandise ($5,000 total). That costs GW ~$1,000. To make that back, they need to sell approximately $1,250 in minis (assuming 80% gross margin). $1,250 breaks down to about 4 armies.

Does anyone honestly think that 5 major events with a $500 top prize each won't get FOUR PEOPLE to buy new armies in preparation for the tournament?

Only a fool wouldn't support a major tournament circuit.


What if the tournaments were self supporting? Then GW is spending $1,000 for no reason at all.

"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block







hay i play Fluffy list at tournament just ask Reecius and i do well with them to.
For my self i see tournaments as a way to play new players that are not my normal playing group . Playing the same players over and over has gotten stale and i need the challenge. This is coming form a player that love to play the game for years and i will play it still like i still play Battletech.



 
   
Made in au
Irked Necron Immortal





GW deciding not to support tournaments is such a strange move even for them. I agree with much of what has been said already and just have a few points to make myself.

I am not sure how taxation works over there, however in Oz the prize support/promotion given to an event would be tax deductible.

So it makes no sense to withhold support to save some dollars considering the huge gains to reaped by GW indirectly.

In Australia (its a big place to travel around) tournaments are also a good way to play people that you would not otherwise have been able to play against.

Games with friends to gaming groups to tournaments all works for me and I am happy to participate in all of them because they all bring something different

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/29 07:02:07


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





A cornfield somewhere in Iowa

While it is disappointing to hear about GW pulling support, I do not think it will kill the Indy Tournament sceen. As a player, I do not go to GTs just for money. I spend way more than I would ever get back in winnings. Hotel, Gas, airline tickets, let alone paint, armys, transports for said army, and too many things to mention. A nice looking trophy or plaque is all most gamers ask for. Heck my favorite lately is collectible poker chips with the GT's logo on it. Sort of my "spoon" collection (really old person reference to collecting spoons on trips).

I go to tournaments to meet people and have fun. It is an event to look forward to. It is a goal to get armies paint for. Where else can you meet and talk 40k to 60+ others?

I do have a heart too. I feel for tournaments tryint to raise money for non-profits. I would also have no ploblem paying an extra $10 on my ticket to play to cover GW's loss of award money. CUZE I WANT TO SEE A FOUR PEAT STATE CHAMPION DEBATE TEAM........lolz, for Tim.

While I did not make it to the Indy Open, or Darkstar GT, I can say the Bugeater GT is an awesome event. I would go even if there was zero prizes! (cuz the tacos were awesome)


PS we really could use a GT in Des Miones Iowa! I think regionally it would work with good support in IL and a straight shot from the Twin Cities in MN. Just saying.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/29 07:57:31


40k-


Bolt Action- German 9th SS
American Rangers 
   
 
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