Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tadashi wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

Durza wrote:The three oldest gods aren't human gods. They took some power from humans, sure, but they're not formed only from humanity. Slaanesh is the only one of the four created by a single race.

Incorrect. The Realms of Chaos are quite explicit that Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle are human gods. They formed from humans and were younger than the Emperor.

Slaanesh is an Eldar god that has since switched pantheons to become a human god, since now Slaanesh draws the bulk of its nourishment from humans, who are one of the most widespread species (behind Orks and Tyranids).

No one ever said however, not even the Realms of Chaos, that the other 3 gods had to be formed at their current level of power. Drawing power only from 1 species confined to 1 world originally, they would likely have been weak gods, and subsequently grew in power as humanity too grew and spread across the stars. Slaanesh is unique in that it formed and exploded into being at the top power level. Slaanesh is like the lottery winner, going from zero to multi-millionaire overnight.

Basically, what you're saying is this:

Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle initially formed during the Ancient War in Heaven, but did start maturing until the unstable psyche of the Humans began to feed them.

Please practice your critical reading. Nowhere in my quote is there any mention of the War in Heaven. That is something you have made up on top of what was actually written. This would explain all the repeated erroneous statements you have come up with regarding the background on other points, such as BFG and Necron pylons. Don't add stuff to what others have written, and then claim they meant that. Keep what others write and your own personal interpretations and fan theories separate.

The Realms of Chaos says the 3 gods were formed from humanity. I did not say a single thing about "maturing". There is no source anywhere saying that these 3 gods formed during the War in Heaven. Not even the old Necron Codex. The most that is said is that the warp became turbulent and malign entities started to form. People have then completely run away with that and jumped to the conclusion that that refers to Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle, when in fact they are not named.

That is flawed reasoning. Just because fish start appearing in the ocean at a point in time in the past does not mean there are 3 specific individual fish in the ocean at that time in the past.

I'm pretty sure that even if you did manage to build a ton of null zone things in an attempt to shield your facilities from the chaos incursion you are protecting against, Tzeentch will just force some warp storms to drop off a bunch of space marines and augment fate such that an entire imperial army group suddenly appears on the xeno's planet.

spending all that energy and power for anit-warp equipment will mean less available to fight off a conventional war which of course should start easily enough with that many imperials suddenly in the area.

Hell, if that doesn't work, just redirect a few ork hulks that'a way. oooo shiney bitz! Me shmash!

Well the only way I could think of is Heresy. You would need to understand what "Gene" makes races like the Tau have no warp presence and breed it into Evey other race. The downside is you would loose psykers and fast warp travel.

I believe the Big E had something like this planned. Kill human faith, get them away from the warp and such.

Iracundus wrote:
That is flawed reasoning. Just because fish start appearing in the ocean at a point in time in the past does not mean there are 3 specific individual fish in the ocean at that time in the past.

Sorry, my bad . I'm guessing those malign entities refer to daemons.

Tadashi wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
That is flawed reasoning. Just because fish start appearing in the ocean at a point in time in the past does not mean there are 3 specific individual fish in the ocean at that time in the past.

Sorry, my bad . I'm guessing those malign entities refer to daemons.

They might be daemons. They might be other forms of warp entities, such as Enslavers. They could be many things. That is the point. The statement is vague and generalized and thus it is not proof of any specific gods or daemons appearing.

If the Tyranids succeed in taking over the Galaxy, wouldn't the Shadow in the Warp essentially sever it?

Squash wrote:If the Tyranids succeed in taking over the Galaxy, wouldn't the Shadow in the Warp essentially sever it?

Not really, no. The Shadow is basically the psychic 'noise' caused by all the Tyranids communicating with each other and with the Hive Mind.

Squash wrote:If the Tyranids succeed in taking over the Galaxy, wouldn't the Shadow in the Warp essentially sever it?

The Tyranids do not "take over". They consume and move on. The Shadow in the Warp is a psychic phenomenon that blots out the local warp and makes it difficult for any non-Tyranid to travel in the warp, communicate via the warp, or use the warp for psychic powers, but it doesn't block realspace off from the warp in the way that Necron pylons do.

However, if the Tyranids were to scour the galaxy of life, then the Chaos gods would starve and disappear if they could not find new sources to feed on. As shown by the example of the old Eldar gods (in the Dark Eldar Codex), warp gods starved of worship and devotion weaken.

Surely the warp isnt localised over the milky-way? Warp travel wouldn't work if it was just a cellophane overlay on top of the galaxy. I suppose this is more of a plot-hole than an argument.

The necrontyr felt emotion (Jealousy and hatred of the old ones) yet were cut off from the warp. Races require a psychic connection to the warp and i think that is where the 'soul' comes into it, if you destroy all creatures with a soul you will starve the warp. The pylons only stop realspace incursions, i do not think there is any background that says they completely sever the psychic connection, the soul.

I dont think it can be stopped, slowly but surely chaos is begin to grow.

Perkustin wrote:Surely the warp isnt localised over the milky-way? Warp travel wouldn't work if it was just a cellophane overlay on top of the galaxy. I suppose this is more of a plot-hole than an argument.

The necrontyr felt emotion (Jealousy and hatred of the old ones) yet were cut off from the warp. Races require a psychic connection to the warp and i think that is where the 'soul' comes into it, if you destroy all creatures with a soul you will starve the warp. The pylons only stop realspace incursions, i do not think there is any background that says they completely sever the psychic connection, the soul.

I dont think it can be stopped, slowly but surely chaos is begin to grow.

The warp isn't localized but the Chaos gods are. They are entities of this galaxy.

As for the pylons, see the old Necron Codex where the Eldar Farseer has a view of the future if the Necrons succeed in their pylon plan:

I have seen the mark of the Yngir on the young and old alike, lest the others in their sacrilegious pantheon turn their deadly attentions to the wrong flock. They populate the geometric schism of changeless realspace that the Yngir have worked long millennia to construct. A psychic void, the warp cannot exist here. The spirit cannot exist here.

This shows the severing of realspace from the warp. The livestock of the C'tan still live physically, but they are cut off from the warp.

Furthermore, if one looks at the old Necron Codex, on the final page among the scattered notes, there is a section where it talks of how a ship found the warp unusually calm near a star system. It was so calm in fact that the ship was becalmed and had to prematurely exit the warp, much further out from the system than is usually the case. This shows the warp isn't literally "not existing" as one interpretation of the Farseer's words might suggest, but rather it is calmed. The warp "doesn't exist" in the Farseer's words because for those trapped within the pylons' area of influence, the warp is unreachable.

Hunterindarkness wrote:Well the only way I could think of is Heresy. You would need to understand what "Gene" makes races like the Tau have no warp presence and breed it into Evey other race. The downside is you would loose psykers and fast warp travel.

I believe the Big E had something like this planned. Kill human faith, get them away from the warp and such.

There are also humans (or at least were) who are anti-warp in a way, warp related things tend to just not work around them (up to a point) maybe if you isolate that gene (instead of the tau gene) it should work better and not be seen as heresy. Or if you possibly combine both of those genes.

Untouchables are those people. The downside to being one is that absolutely no one likes you or can stand to be around you.

Humans are a social creature.

See the problem?

Absolutely no one besides other Untouchables.

In the end the IOM dosnt want to seperate from the warp because it is the only thing keeping the IOM from fracturing, I mean the IOM tech is almost completly based off of the warp. Without it they lose space travel long distance conversasion and they lose the emperor in the end the warp isnt going to stop because it is to usefull a thing to give up

Buddhism is the cure to this, if the imperium learned to let go there would be no warp.

I do not know if "Untouchable" is a genetic issue. If I recall they do not pass it on to offspring. They have never covered just what it is, but it might well not be genetic at all.

Everything must die.
Not captured, not enslaved, not freed.
Everyone has to die...

purplefood wrote:Everything must die.
Not captured, not enslaved, not freed.
Everyone has to die...

This is not true, some races have very little to no warp presence.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

purplefood wrote:Everything must die.
Not captured, not enslaved, not freed.
Everyone has to die...

This is not true, some races have very little to no warp presence.

Yeah but that would be discriminatory and i am not a racist.
Everyone dies.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

purplefood wrote:Everything must die.
Not captured, not enslaved, not freed.
Everyone has to die...

This is not true, some races have very little to no warp presence.

the Necrontyr and the Old Ones didn't produce Demons and Warp Entities during their brutal intergalactic war probably due to said lack or perhaps minimal Warp presence.

The Enslavers did eventually appear-only after the introduction of the Krork and Eldar.

So a "calm Warp" universe might only exist with the Necrons....and the Tau.

Warpfire wrote:

Durza wrote:It's impossible. If anything was going to seriously threaten the gods' ability to mess with reality, they'd join forces to destroy it.

The C'tan pylons are capable of severing the warp connection to reality however the network of them was never finished and only the ones on Cadia remain, these are speculated to be the source of the Cadian gate and appear to prevent the warp, so if enough of these pylons were deployed and guarded quickly enough then it might be the beginning of the end for chaos forces.

There was an inquisitor that figured out how they work and was building a more powerful version to collapse the Eye of Terror, but Einsenhorn killed him.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:

purplefood wrote:Everything must die.
Not captured, not enslaved, not freed.
Everyone has to die...

This is not true, some races have very little to no warp presence.

the Necrontyr and the Old Ones didn't produce Demons and Warp Entities during their brutal intergalactic war probably due to said lack or perhaps minimal Warp presence.

The Enslavers did eventually appear-only after the introduction of the Krork and Eldar.

So a "calm Warp" universe might only exist with the Necrons....and the Tau.

May have been a few other races as well, but man killed oh so many of them.

Wouldn't being really nice and kind to everyone work out best. I mean it wouldn't destroy the warp, but it would be populated with nice demons who want to give out free hugs rather then free stabs.

Then again with how warped the warp is. That plan might just backfire.

Omegus wrote:

Warpfire wrote:

Durza wrote:It's impossible. If anything was going to seriously threaten the gods' ability to mess with reality, they'd join forces to destroy it.

The C'tan pylons are capable of severing the warp connection to reality however the network of them was never finished and only the ones on Cadia remain, these are speculated to be the source of the Cadian gate and appear to prevent the warp, so if enough of these pylons were deployed and guarded quickly enough then it might be the beginning of the end for chaos forces.

There was an inquisitor that figured out how they work and was building a more powerful version to collapse the Eye of Terror, but Einsenhorn killed him.

Why the hell did he do something as stupid as that?!

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Warpfire wrote:

Durza wrote:It's impossible. If anything was going to seriously threaten the gods' ability to mess with reality, they'd join forces to destroy it.

The C'tan pylons are capable of severing the warp connection to reality however the network of them was never finished and only the ones on Cadia remain, these are speculated to be the source of the Cadian gate and appear to prevent the warp, so if enough of these pylons were deployed and guarded quickly enough then it might be the beginning of the end for chaos forces.

There was an inquisitor that figured out how they work and was building a more powerful version to collapse the Eye of Terror, but Einsenhorn killed him.

Why the hell did he do something as stupid as that?!

Because it's xenos tech, duh. The Mechanicus are the only ones sanctioned to use xenos tech, and then only for research purposes. For xenos weapons and technology to be 'sanctified' and 'adopted' into the Imperial armories, usually but not always for the Inquisition, such as jokaero digital weaponry and C'tan phase blades, takes decades, if not years, of exhaustive research and analysis. The Mechanicus always strives to understand the principles behind the technology, even if they cannot actually replicate it.

The Emperor's plan was to stop worship of religion so zealotry would die out much faster. When Logar popped up and started the whole Emperors church thing thats when it all went down hill. Next thing you know Horus has some major daddy problems and the heresy starts. So my thoughts are think of the Emperor as well... a Emperor and not a god made flesh and eventually chaos will starve.
eventually....

In the end it doesnt matter because, even if the IMO dies out the chaos gods still have the EOT to fall back to which could house a huge amount of humanity, also there have been some cases of xenos worshiping the chaos gods so. So they just wait till the next big race comes up, warps them up, and uses the CSM to kill all their enemies in the end Chaos wins. No hope for the galaxy except to be wipt out or become Orkifid!

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Warpfire wrote:

Durza wrote:It's impossible. If anything was going to seriously threaten the gods' ability to mess with reality, they'd join forces to destroy it.

The C'tan pylons are capable of severing the warp connection to reality however the network of them was never finished and only the ones on Cadia remain, these are speculated to be the source of the Cadian gate and appear to prevent the warp, so if enough of these pylons were deployed and guarded quickly enough then it might be the beginning of the end for chaos forces.

There was an inquisitor that figured out how they work and was building a more powerful version to collapse the Eye of Terror, but Einsenhorn killed him.

Why the hell did he do something as stupid as that?!

You should read the Eisenhorn trilogy, it will make a lot more sense.

...yeah, ok NOW it makes sense.
Good on ye, Eisenhorn.

Wait hold a sec...why is there a mutie inquisitor? I thought they hate muties.

Surely collapsing the Eye would have been a terrible move to make anyway. It would have given the Traitor legions an infinite number of ways not to go through the Cadian gate in order to get to the Imperium.