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CorvidMP wrote:2- If some one at a GW store tell you they're confiscating it, inform that they're about to commit fracking larceny. If they snatch it when you aren't looking, or something equally dumb, call your local police non-emergency number, they'll be happy to get you your model back, and possibly give the GW employee a nice new set of bracelets.
You don't just get to take other people's property, its kind of illegal.
.

For some odd reason, I can see this being shown and covered in the news in my city.

Can you post a photo of your model?

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Corvid, Kan, you realize its possible I wasn't referring to Biccat don't you?

I'm sure he appreciates you charging in to save him though...

Then why make the comment in the first place?

There are two people making any kind of legal statements--helium42 and biccat.

Biccat knows his stuff, so I can only assume you're referring to helium42--except most of what he says jives with biccat's statements.

And I most certainly know you're not referring to me, as all I did was copy/paste a bit from GW's own legal page while making no declarative legal statements of my own.

My bad!
There's three people. Corvid is as well.
Given that his statements seem to jive as well--it seems to fit the idea of "knows what he's talking about".

I was mainly commenting on the perennial post of "you can duplicate it as long as you're not selling it" that comes up every time a thread about casting models or downloading copyrighted material.

Sorry if I bothered you so.

Well then you should have quoted that, silly!

I figured it was a matter of time before more of the same flooded in. lol

SlaveToDorkness wrote:I figured it was a matter of time before more of the same flooded in. lol

Let me take a moment and apologize for jumping on you, since you did take the time to do so as well.

Comments like the one about armchair lawyering irk me quite a bit, as I view them as no different than the "*popcorn*" comments/.jpgs that come up whenever we see flame wars or debates break out. I hope you do not think I was trying to single you out or try to pick a fight or anything of that nature.

I did at first, admittedly, but that's more a reflection of my mood tonight than your posts.

Thanks for clearing the air though.

Kanluwen wrote:Calling biccat an armchair lawyer is like calling Patton an armchair general.

Though your point about biccat being a lawyer is valid, it is important to note that he is a professional that operates primarily within the realm of Hart's penumbra, and as such his opinion should be taken only with the understanding of his bias.

However, that doesn't mean he's wrong. While the Fair Use provisions, coupled with the precedent set by The AHRA could allow someone to make the argument that a person may make fewer than 10 copies of a legitimately-purchased model, even I (with my very 'relaxed' views on the subject) would have trouble justifying it under Fair Use.

Here is an interesting case about confiscation of counterfeit goods.

http://www.internationallawoffice.com/newsletters/detail.aspx?g=a7895df8-1623-477a-b1c8-e8af882cd814

Obviously Denmark isn't the USA, though their copyright regimes are broadly similar. However, the OP bought the item in good faith and it wasn't confiscated by Customs at the point of import.

Companies are not empowered to make confiscations themselves. It's done by accompanying agents of the law when required.

By the letter of the law in most countries, you are not supposed duplicate for personal use. By the enforcement of the law in most countries, you can.

How do you propose someone prosecute or sue you for making a copy if you never tell anyone they are copies, never distribute them nor allow them outside of your possession?

Furthermore, in civil cases, it'll be damn near impossible to claim damages for something you can't even prove is a duplicate.

I could get myself a t-shirt, download a good image of an NHL or NFL team logo, make myself a print-off iron-on decal and have a unauthorized sports team t-shirt. Even if I walk around in public with it, what can anyone do? Same goes for a painted miniature.

Our legislation is interpreted both by law enforcement and courts to arrive at the practical realities of what is legal in the real world.

A valid example of recasting for 'fair use/personal use' would be to take a model, recast it 10 times to set paintjobs. Paint the model 10 different ways to try a bunch of techniques, possible schemes and so on. At the end of the experiment, paint the original the desired scheme, destroy the copies.

A non valid example of recasting for 'fair use/personal use' is buying a model, and recasting the parts or whole model as many times as you want to in order to make an army.

Now can you get away with it? probably. Is it legal? No. Will GW prosecute you? Depends. While they are primarily interested in catching recasters on eBay and the like, It doesn't mean GW can't do vindictive prosecution should someone be bold enough to walk into their store with loads of counterfeit materials.

Edit: And I would take pictures of the resin and send it to FW. They should be able to tell you if it looks legit or not. If not, then turn in the ebay seller and see if GW will give you a free replacement of the authentic stuff.

after all who wants to pay for a badly-cast fake?

As opposed to the originals...? lol, considering what we've heard about these infamous recasts I'd say the "badly-cast" versions are the official models that always cost more despite being inferior quality.

Quite a few recasts are not badly-cast, that's the problem for GW. I've seen some terrible recasts in the past, lumpy things made with lead. The current resin recasts are actually very good, or comparable with GW standards.

Right now you'd probably get better results from the recaster than by ordering from GW/FW :(

The recasts I have are better quality than FW.

CorvidMP wrote:Biccat could only be constued to be an armchair lawyer in so much as he's an actual lawyer, who is likely sitting in an armchair (and an honest to gods IP lawyer at that LOL).

It's true, my chair does have arms. I'm so ashamed

SlaveToDorkness wrote:I'm sure he appreciates you charging in to save him though...

Quiet you, white knights are awesome. I take back everything I've ever said about them

Also, if bad gates are a sign of recasting, then I think I bought some recast models recently. The only thing I'm trying to figure out is how they were able to hack Forgeworld's online order system and send them from Forgeworld itself. I think it might be an inside job.

You talk about turning in the seller.

I thought China was a golden land wherein copyright law meant nothing? Hence why all pirated stuff comes from China? :>

Have recasters ever sold stuff cast in the white metal? I ask because of this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Combi-melta-and-plasma-parts-Warhammer-40K-/170821516199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c5c17ba7

I've seen the same seller selling the same stuff over and over again. Are these recasts? If I, hypothetically of course, bought my combi-meltas from this guy and already have them in my units build and painted, what should I do?

Of course people have sold recasts in white metal and still do. It is the only way to pass off recasts as examples of original models that have lain in store for a decade or two.

How many people or shops are likely ever to have bought in several hundred of a rare model before it became OOP, and lost the packaging?

That's not a direct accusation against your eBay supplier by the way.

Lotus wrote:Have recasters ever sold stuff cast in the white metal? I ask because of this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Combi-melta-and-plasma-parts-Warhammer-40K-/170821516199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c5c17ba7

I've seen the same seller selling the same stuff over and over again. Are these recasts? If I, hypothetically of course, bought my combi-meltas from this guy and already have them in my units build and painted, what should I do?

Recasters do cast in metal.

If you've already used them, do nothing. It's not your problem. What do you think you should do, break up your figures because some parts on them might not be original GW casts?

Henners91 wrote:You talk about turning in the seller.

I thought China was a golden land wherein copyright law meant nothing? Hence why all pirated stuff comes from China? :>

But they do have recourse on american websites like eBay which shut down counterfieters like crazy with evfdence should a company decide to sue.

If you want to travel to china and buy counterfiet goods and smuggle them back into the country, be my guest. If you want to get it via US resellers and US auction sites, then realize companies have the right to shut those people down and prosecute them if possible.

China does have and respect Copyrights and IP. The issue is the general population is ignorant that it is a crime since they didn't begin enforcing it until the 80s basicallyw hen they beganw anting to do more buisness with international people. While there are enforcement issues, it doesn't mean that there are no laws in China. It usually means it is very hard for non chinese companies to get any legal results. Don't mistake unwilingness or inability to enforce a law with making it legal.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Lotus wrote:Have recasters ever sold stuff cast in the white metal? I ask because of this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Combi-melta-and-plasma-parts-Warhammer-40K-/170821516199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c5c17ba7

I've seen the same seller selling the same stuff over and over again. Are these recasts? If I, hypothetically of course, bought my combi-meltas from this guy and already have them in my units build and painted, what should I do?

Recasters do cast in metal.

If you've already used them, do nothing. It's not your problem. What do you think you should do, break up your figures because some parts on them might not be original GW casts?

Not exclusively in metal.

There was a recast site that got some notoriety on here awhile back, which was selling metal and plastic kits/components in resin.

Kanluwen wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Lotus wrote:Have recasters ever sold stuff cast in the white metal? I ask because of this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Combi-melta-and-plasma-parts-Warhammer-40K-/170821516199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c5c17ba7

I've seen the same seller selling the same stuff over and over again. Are these recasts? If I, hypothetically of course, bought my combi-meltas from this guy and already have them in my units build and painted, what should I do?

Recasters do cast in metal.

If you've already used them, do nothing. It's not your problem. What do you think you should do, break up your figures because some parts on them might not be original GW casts?

Not exclusively in metal.

Did I say otherwise? I always seem to find myself being 'corrected' on things I've haven't actually said on Dakka, is it people trying to get one-up or just being contrary for the sake of it? I don't know.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Lotus wrote:Have recasters ever sold stuff cast in the white metal? I ask because of this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Combi-melta-and-plasma-parts-Warhammer-40K-/170821516199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c5c17ba7

I've seen the same seller selling the same stuff over and over again. Are these recasts? If I, hypothetically of course, bought my combi-meltas from this guy and already have them in my units build and painted, what should I do?

Recasters do cast in metal.

If you've already used them, do nothing. It's not your problem. What do you think you should do, break up your figures because some parts on them might not be original GW casts?

Not exclusively in metal.

Did I say otherwise?

Howard, I think you're reading too much into my quoting you. I wasn't doing it to pick a fight--I was doing it to add to your statement.

Hologram wrote:Hey all, I bought a ForgeWorld Thousand Sons Dreadnought on the cheap from eBay. It totaled ~$45 USD with the Dreadnought, Chainfist arm, Autocannon arm, and International Shipping. Retail would have been ~$67 USD without shipping...So I got a very good deal.

Bearing in mind that Forge World only sells retail and that you paid approx 50% to a seller in HK - did you really think it was real?

Okay fair enough, just seems to happen fairly frequently here unlike anywhere else I visit.

Hmn... Now how do I specify "only buy from sellers in China" when searching for cheap Forgeworld products on Ebay? =D

H.B.M.C. wrote:The recasts I have are better quality than FW.

My experience too.

Thanks for the link! This seller is fantastic!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Woah so wait - if I deliberately buy ripoffs I might get the genuine article from GW? Boo yeah...

SlaveToDorkness wrote:I doubt you could repeatedly.

"Hi, Forge World? Yeah, it's me again. I bought another counterfeit model. I know I said the last one was the last one... but I think I have a problem. Can... can I have the real one again? Just this last time! I promise!"

I think they'd catch on eventually.

They might not. I mean you could always tell them to send it to an unmarked location in a brown duffel bag. Might work