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Nocturn wrote:self deprecation does nothing other than show the individual that he can walk all over you and that you will do nothing about it.

That's the point.

The person in question hyperbolically believes that guard armies are invincible. The best medicine here is to hyperbolically imply the vincibility of guard armies.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ascalam wrote:I had one guy in a tournament completely ragging on my orks for being OP and 'broken' and 'unkillable'..

His main complaint was that there was no way to kill 180+ orks barrelling down-table at him before they got to swing in CC.

Oddly enough (and no offense to the OP..I don't mind IG) he was a Guard player, and his list was tailored heavily towards antihorde as we had several Nid and Ork horde armies at the time. Flamers and blasts and Pieplates oh my!

He basically ripped me a verbal new one for playing a broken-ass OP army all the time he was setting up, not even glancing at my list

He stopped mid-rant when i set up my mekbash force agaisnt him, consisting of 11 walkers, 2 BW and 2 KFF meks with Meganobz bodyguards.

He got rolled (literally ) as he hadn't invested in much anti-vehicle gear, and then whined at the TO about how KFF was broken as hell, and that 11 walkers PLUS tanks couldn't possibly be legal (despite the fact he had tanks and a bunch of sentinels.... )

If someone whines about your army, chances are they suck, and don't want their fragile ego to take the hit from being beaten Probably not really worth playng them either way.

\

How did you get 11 walkers?
2 BW = 2 Heavy support
3 killer kans = 1 HS
6 KK = 2 troops (due to the 2 meks)

Where did the other two walkers come from?
Did you have nobs?

As previously posted, the Meganobz brought rides

What i wouldn't give for being able to take 3 KK as a troop choice, but unfortunately Big Meks only allow Deff Dredd troops.

The list was

HQ Big mek with KFF, riding with 3 Meganobz Elites in a BW dedicated transport
Big mek with KFF, riding with 3 Meganobz Elites in a BW dedicated transport
Deff Dredd -troop
Deff Dredd - Troop
HS- 3 Killa Kanz
HS- 3 Killa Kanz
HS - 3 Killa Kanz.

Whiztricks/upgrades as needed.



It's a list i run fairly often, and it's always a blast

Ascalam wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ascalam wrote:I had one guy in a tournament completely ragging on my orks for being OP and 'broken' and 'unkillable'..

His main complaint was that there was no way to kill 180+ orks barrelling down-table at him before they got to swing in CC.

Oddly enough (and no offense to the OP..I don't mind IG) he was a Guard player, and his list was tailored heavily towards antihorde as we had several Nid and Ork horde armies at the time. Flamers and blasts and Pieplates oh my!

He basically ripped me a verbal new one for playing a broken-ass OP army all the time he was setting up, not even glancing at my list

He stopped mid-rant when i set up my mekbash force agaisnt him, consisting of 11 walkers, 2 BW and 2 KFF meks with Meganobz bodyguards.

He got rolled (literally ) as he hadn't invested in much anti-vehicle gear, and then whined at the TO about how KFF was broken as hell, and that 11 walkers PLUS tanks couldn't possibly be legal (despite the fact he had tanks and a bunch of sentinels.... )

If someone whines about your army, chances are they suck, and don't want their fragile ego to take the hit from being beaten Probably not really worth playng them either way.

\

How did you get 11 walkers?
2 BW = 2 Heavy support
3 killer kans = 1 HS
6 KK = 2 troops (due to the 2 meks)

Where did the other two walkers come from?
Did you have nobs?

As previously posted, the Meganobz brought rides

What i wouldn't give for being able to take 3 KK as a troop choice, but unfortunately Big Meks only allow Deff Dredd troops.

The list was

HQ Big mek with KFF, riding with 3 Meganobz Elites in a BW dedicated transport
Big mek with KFF, riding with 3 Meganobz Elites in a BW dedicated transport
Deff Dredd -troop
Deff Dredd - Troop
HS- 3 Killa Kanz
HS- 3 Killa Kanz
HS - 3 Killa Kanz.

Whiztricks/upgrades as needed.



It's a list i run fairly often, and it's always a blast

Must be a blast to play in objective games.

Sure it is I said that it's a fun list to play, not that it wins all the time. The two aren't always the same thing

Kill every muvva on da board

Accept no substitutes


The dreads aren't scoring, true enough, but they contest with the best of them

loota boy wrote:Must be a blast to play in objective games.

Tabling works for every game type

Exactly

When in doubt, kill everybody

Then kill them again.

And again, just to be sure.

Then it's time for a bludwieser break.

Then kill them one more time..

I have three points. Like a pitchfork.

Firstly, if someone has a negative response to your army, you have two choices. If you want to be a jerk and pass the buck along to the next IG (or GK, or whatever) player that guy has to deal with, by all means talk some trash about putting down his purse, manning up, etc. I suppose you're within your rights to be a jerk to a guy who is being a jerk to you. However, if you want to end the cycle of jerk, talk shop with the guy. Use your knowledge of your codex to help him become a better player. Then his games will be more fun, and he'll remember "that IG player I met at the FLGS" as the guy who helped him out.

In other words, talking shop is > talking trash.

Secondly, I personally don't think "quit complaining and man up" is really an appropriate response. Look, people, we are playing a game here. Games - even competitive games - are supposed to be fun. Winning is fun, but it's less fun (for most people) if your opponent never really stood a chance. Losing is fun, but it's less fun (for most people) if you never stood a chance. I do't mind being beaten - I'd better not, I play Tau! - but I hate it when I'm blown off the table without putting a scratch on my opponent's army. Frankly, this is something Games Workshop is supposed to take care of. In my opinion, a well-designed game is one that is fun to play, fun to win, and fun to lose. Unfortunately, this is not something Games Workshop is great at. Whatever - all games have their foibles - but it's an entirely valid thing to complain about.

In other words: "man up and play your army better" would be an entirely appropriate response if we were playing a perfectly balanced game. It would be mostly appropriate if we were playing a mostly balanced game. As we are playing a pretty poorly balanced game, it's actually a pretty lousy thing to say to someone.

Finally, I do have a problem with the IG codex. It bothers me that they can do everything: they can field huge blobs of BS 3 soldiers, smaller groups of BS 4 soldiers, they can Outflank and Infiltrate and Deep Strike and manipulate reserves rolls, they have independent characters who are incredibly effective in close combat, they have ridiculous access to high Strength and low AP weapons on their basic soldiers, and their transports and tanks are cheaper than everyone else's. This can be frustrating to play against. I haven't played Grey Knights or read their codex, so I can't speak to how broken they are or aren't.

That said, I'd never be rude to an actual player of the Imperial Guard. Actual rudeness? Not actually tolerable under any circumstances.

But expressing frustrating - giving your opponent's codex a look and saying "oh, great, I'm probably going to get blown off the table today - damn you GW!" - is fine by me.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

bibblles wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

bibblles wrote:I put my titan on the table and say...

"Deal with it"

I'm pretty sure any army can tailor fit their list to take down any titan of the equivalent points worth.

True, but a warlord titan on the table will end many a conversation.

If you brought even a half-decent looking warlord titan to the FLGS, the conversation would end only because they are looking at you in awestruck worship.

I would go down to fisticuffs to pit my army against a lone warlord.
EDIT: As a gentlemen's offer, of course.

Well you tell me if it's half-decent looking...

In that situation, I would've laughed.

I would've listened to him go on his rant and started smiling, and then started laughing. Really hard, genuine laughter like he had just told the best joke I've ever heard. If stops to ask why I'm laughing 1) He stopped. Win there. 2) Just shake my head and keep laughing.

This is a game. While I'm a proponent of (almost) always playing to win, with every tool at your disposal at the end of the day this is a game. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to get so worked up about something so inconsequential. I stalwartly refuse to actually judge someone so misguided seriously. Yes, there are imbalances in the game, there are rock-paper-scissors matchups, some armies are overpowered, some are underpowered, some are overcosted, others undercosted.

So-fething-what.

bibblles wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

bibblles wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

bibblles wrote:I put my titan on the table and say...

"Deal with it"

I'm pretty sure any army can tailor fit their list to take down any titan of the equivalent points worth.

True, but a warlord titan on the table will end many a conversation.

If you brought even a half-decent looking warlord titan to the FLGS, the conversation would end only because they are looking at you in awestruck worship.

I would go down to fisticuffs to pit my army against a lone warlord.
EDIT: As a gentlemen's offer, of course.

Well you tell me if it's half-decent looking...

Mate, that titan is a piece of goddamned art.
How big is it? 18"? 24"

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

bibblles wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

bibblles wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

bibblles wrote:I put my titan on the table and say...

"Deal with it"

I'm pretty sure any army can tailor fit their list to take down any titan of the equivalent points worth.

True, but a warlord titan on the table will end many a conversation.

If you brought even a half-decent looking warlord titan to the FLGS, the conversation would end only because they are looking at you in awestruck worship.

I would go down to fisticuffs to pit my army against a lone warlord.
EDIT: As a gentlemen's offer, of course.

Well you tell me if it's half-decent looking...

Mate, that titan is a piece of goddamned art.
How big is it? 18"? 24"

24 inches tall, 20 inches wide
check it out in greater detail, link is in my sig.

Can't we just quote the sentence you're replying too?

And yes, sweet Titan

Nice

I like the older, curved body design better, personally, but the blocky design is way easier to make

I tried to build a Reaver class titan when i was a teenager, but it didn't turn out as nice as yours

This is why the Imperium is awesome!

IcedAnimals wrote:

Street Fighter 2 came out and I played Chun Li. Grew to love the character. I actually skipped Street fighter 3 until 3rd Strike because none of the characters interested me since Chun wasn't in the game. Once Chun was in the game I started playing it a bit. While I didn't know this at the time Chun-Li is vastly considered the single best character in 3rd strike.

I would go to an arcade someone would want to play and when I picked Chun people would often get upset. I still remember one dude insulting me for about 10 minutes straight because he beat me after I picked a "top tier" character in a "friendly match"

Being a Chun Li fan myself I never thought her to be overpowered, she is just a rounded character. I compare her to Ken and Ryu, they are overall great characters. The best thing I learned in street fighter was is you think a character is overpowered, or cheap use the character and learn them. After playing that particular character for a period of time you learn you week spots, then comes you time to exploit them weaknesses

Best just to ignore him.

When my local store was still open, I played Eldar and beat EVERYONE, and mostly it was a great game and challenging, but some players, notably my friend, refuses to play my eldar, saying they are broken as hell etc. (He then quietens when I point out all the other new eldar players who fail epicly...)

But anyway, if this one guy won't, its his problem. If someone refuses to fight my eldar, I'll make some speech about them being afraid of my warriors in skin-tight body warmers and find someone else. I'd advise ya to do the same

Von Chogg

Blast this over their complaining.




Loop if needed for some of the more long winded individuals. Remember 65% is the magic volume level as it leaves leeway to raise to counter them if needed.

Cryage wrote:I'd tell him to put down his purse and man up and learn to play his army. Every army pretty much stands a chance if you can list tailor to another army.

eyebone wrote:

IcedAnimals wrote:

Street Fighter 2 came out and I played Chun Li. Grew to love the character. I actually skipped Street fighter 3 until 3rd Strike because none of the characters interested me since Chun wasn't in the game. Once Chun was in the game I started playing it a bit. While I didn't know this at the time Chun-Li is vastly considered the single best character in 3rd strike.

I would go to an arcade someone would want to play and when I picked Chun people would often get upset. I still remember one dude insulting me for about 10 minutes straight because he beat me after I picked a "top tier" character in a "friendly match"

Being a Chun Li fan myself I never thought her to be overpowered, she is just a rounded character. I compare her to Ken and Ryu, they are overall great characters. The best thing I learned in street fighter was is you think a character is overpowered, or cheap use the character and learn them. After playing that particular character for a period of time you learn you week spots, then comes you time to exploit them weaknesses

Now you are speaking my language. I was OBSESSED with this game for a good five years or so. I played in very competitive environments on the UCLA campus and in the top arcades in Tokyo. I always heard on the net that Chun Li was overpowered, but you know what? None of the top guys used her. Ever. Urien had some majorly abusive glitches with the Aegis reflector. Oro had a never-ending combo that only really really top players could pull off, but was annoying as hell. Yun was super super annoying to fight against and in my book was borderline OP... good Akuma players were really tough. I even fought a Hugo player who could WALK UP TO YOU and do that 720 degree slam.

That was the best fighting game ever made.

Anyway, I sort of understand with 40k. Remember towards the end of 4th ed when the Eldar had indestructible vehicles and Harlequins that rended on the to-hit? Yeah, it did get to the point where I didn't want to play against them anymore, just because it wasn't fun. 5th ed, though, I think is fairly well-balanced. GK can be a pain, but they are beatable. Never really saw the problem with IG.

Usually I get that sort of reaction from my less than par choices. I was soundly mocked by my usage of Stealth Suits by other Tau players until I started challenging them. It soon shut them up.

I had been playing VC since 6th ed, and it just happened that my style of playing was significantly buffed in 7th. The biggest problem I faced was that the other two armies I had an intrest in playing (Dwarves and WE) were outdated and horrible. Then when the new DE came out and I realized how manuverable I could be with it, I ran to it immediately. When people started grumbling that I was jumping on the bandwagon, I showed them that my list wasn't made up of the double hydra/dirtlord on a dragon/shadestar lists that they were expecting, but really balanced lists that used all phases to my advantage. Once people realized that my lists and style were tailored towards using the rules of the game rather than the rules of units and power pieces to win, they backed off.

In your situation I might try humility as someone else suggested also. "Oh man, really? IG kicks that much ass? What do they use against you, I've been getting rolled!"

thanks for the variety of responses guys, its all appreciated. My main goal was to just figure out how to talk things out with the guy if I'm at a tourney or something, as I hate coming across as a jerk, and really dont want to be a TFG. While I'd like to show the guy there are was to beat IG (lord knows I'm good at losing ) I have a feeling he'll not be changing his point of view anytime soon.

Also, for the ork guy who got chewedout by an IG PLAYER for having too many vehicles, I apologize for you having to put up with such bizarre logic. How he can complain about armor when he's playing the army that can field the most armor in the entire game, is beyond me. That would be like orks complaining that IG can bring as many infantry models as they can (which will be fun, as I'm starting orks too )

MrMoustaffa wrote:TL;DR:[/u] [/b]What do you do when someone just lays into your army? I mean like they hate it so much they not only will not play against it, but refuse to even acknowledge it as a force, or go so far as to either insult you or dislike you as well? To the point where they'll forfeit a tournament match just to prove their point, or something else as extreme? Whether its a TFG, or a guy who in any other circumstance is really cool to be around, how do you handle it to either get them to chill out, or at least change the subject? I'd like to get an idea of how to better handle the situation, as I'm sure I'll see this guy again in the store sometimes, and without a doubt at tournaments (where this will be more of an issue) I'm not quitting IG anytime soon either, regardless of someone's experience with them, but I'd like to be able to show the guy that not all IG players are jerks.

Please realize I am not looking for a "poor me, my little IG army got ranted on" pity thread. I'm mainly looking for advice so I can be more prepared for dealing with guys like this in the future. This is a game and I like to play for fun. Having a guy get angry at the mere sight of my army is counterproductive to this.

I do just what you did: Don't rise to the bait, let 'em rant and figure happily that you will never have to play him if you bring your IG army in. This even more so if you are a new comer to the store and don't feel like being sucked down into someone's stupid ranting. Anyone who is that whiny against a particular army is seriously lacking in the imagination to resolve the situation on the tabletop so has to rant against them incessantly instead. If I fight a particularly obnoxious version of any army, once the game is done I think about how I can better deal with something like it in the future. Unless you are trying to figure out how to make your tau army a CC power house, there is plenty of adaptability in most of the other lists to give you options for deailng with different opposing builds. Then next time you hit the table you stomp them back and get on with your life. I've had plenty of games where my kit out for a battle was just the completely wrong selection of stuff to succeed very well at all. It happens, but doesn't mean that the army I was facing was OP or impossible to beat. It just means I couldn't get the job done with what I had on the table for that battle. Of course if you can't figure out how to adapt the next time, you instead will complain about them constantly.

Skriker

lol I had someone say that my daemon nurgle army was "op" this weekend. Really? Are they op or are you mad cause I wiped out all your devestators?

When someone bashes my army? I say "Chaos is begin to grow." ... but I can see why that wouldn't work in every situation.

Seriously though, try to calm them down, and if they won't listen, just ignore them. You can't do much else.

I haven't had that problem all that much though, apart from when a GK player told me that CSM having pistols and ccws standard was OP. I couldn't argue with him because I was laughing so hard.

sfshilo wrote:lol I had someone say that my daemon nurgle army was "op" this weekend. Really? Are they op or are you mad cause I wiped out all your devestators?

At the LGS i go to there was an IG player calling Tau "Completely OP" because his opponent had a Hammerhead and a Broadside

Take hold of his lapels with both hands and head-butt him in the nose with all your strength.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:At the LGS i go to there was an IG player calling Tau "Completely OP" because his opponent had a Hammerhead and a Broadside

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

Of course it gets even funnier if they face one of my regular opponents who plays Tau and takes hammerhead and *at least* 2 broadsides and can't roll anything higher than a 1 or 2 on the penetration table against my daemon possessed chaos tanks and chaos engines. If he ever gets a game with good rolling going, though, I am screwed. He is about due for a complete string of one shot, one kill type rolling that is going to really ruin my day.

Skriker

Clearly the solution is to build a guard army and destroy him repeatedly until he either quits, or turns down the suck.

As a new GK player, I tend to get this the few times iv come to a store to play by TFG who claims everything except DE are crap (he even argued with the store guy that space wolves were crappy and didnt stand a chance...i lold).

Anyway back on track, I started them as my first army being new to this, and before i even grabbed a codex or knew their rep. And i explain this every time i get eye rolls: I got them because i like the models, and they are a little easier on the wallet. But upon playing, i dont really get the complaints, because even i admit there are broken sections that i myself would hate to go against. So for example I use GKTS as a SM player would, as an elite unit and instead use GKSS like a SM would use tac squads. I say pre-game against a daemon player "Look, prefered enemy/always wound on x/ etc against daemons is kinda douchy, ima forget i even have those rules". As for elite spam as troops (purifiers), i have none as yet but see their value, yet again id probably be overlooking crowes rule if i use him. All this does several things: shoots up anyone bitching and eyerolling, makes my lists a tad less OP and more fun to play/play against (as the above said, its no fun ALWAYS winning/losing) and it lets me challange myself. I am newish to the hobby, maybe 2 months if that. But i play for fun and, seeing as i have a limited number of friends that play, then it seems a good way to do it.

and anyone who says otherwise, 1 of my HQs is now and forever reserved for an OM with daemonblade and plasmapistol. He will either run head first alone into gibblies, blow himself up or do something amazing. Try and say i aint playing him for gaks and giggles

I've heard my army is OP. Yeah, really, deathwing is OP.

Dude just look right at him and deadpan "I play guard".

Guard is my worst matchup andf this weekend i played a guard player running 1 demolisher 2 executioners 2 vendettas and chimera vet plasma spam.

I won by one kp because he was an honest player who reminded me two of his plasma gunners had killed themselves.

The point is play the game anything is possible.