Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Kevlar wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Marine_With_Heart wrote:What is this mathematical flaw that the hammerhead and thunderwolves are able to break in terms of the equations?

It's just hammerhand... but mathematically you're supposed to multiply then add, but Hammerhand explicitly adds then multiplies.

Its Mat Ward math.

No, its how pure GKs kill vehicles, given our lack of melta

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Marine_With_Heart wrote:What is this mathematical flaw that the hammerhead and thunderwolves are able to break in terms of the equations?

It's just hammerhand... but mathematically you're supposed to multiply then add, but Hammerhand explicitly adds then multiplies.

Its Mat Ward math.

No, its how pure GKs kill vehicles, given our lack of melta

Yeah Str9 hammers wouldn't do it - you can't pen anything with that.

Much less likely however, especially considering the trade off of no melta in the first place.

My Chaos Champion Termies tend to use x2 Chains fists, Iuse them vs. ork battle wagons mainly. But yes it says in my Codex that a chain fist is a power fist with added bonus of 2d6 for AP, there is no fluff thats the rules. As for twin power fists yes, you get I1 but only use it if your in CC with a powerful Char or vehicle. A power fist and chain fist together yes can be done if you pay the points and your Codex allows for that army type. Most times and I am quoting the rules in most Codex's, you can only take 1 power weapon not 2. A chaos lord can take the power fist chain fist combo if you pay the pts. And as for my termi unit the figures come compleate with chain fist or chain axe with twin linked bolter or hvy weapon.

So a thunder hammer/chain fist combo gives a bonus attack?

No - they're different weapons. A chain fist follows the rules of a power fist, but is not one.

Well, I was thinking about my Wolves on this thread. Turns out a Wolf Lard can have double fists ONLY with a termie armour. His 4 attacks as a base stat would be nasty, too bad I'd rather use a frost blade...

Chaos Space Marine: Codex page 84.

CHAINFIST: A chainfist is a powerfist fitted with a chainblade attachment designed to carve through armored bulkheads or vehicles with its whirring adamantine teeth. Originally intended for use in boarading actions, chainfists can be fitted to a suit of terminator armor and have been found to make deadly weapons against any form or armored target. A chainfist is treated exactly as a powerfist, but rolls Strength +2d6 (rather that 1d6) for armor penetration.

End of argument as it states it right here in this book, powerfist and chainfist are the same except for the added adamantine teeth. So stop saying its not what it is, another weapon its not....Sheesh use a brain cell.....

LordWynne wrote:Chaos Space Marine: Codex page 84.

CHAINFIST: A chainfist is a powerfist fitted with a chainblade attachment designed to carve through armored bulkheads or vehicles with its whirring adamantine teeth. Originally intended for use in boarading actions, chainfists can be fitted to a suit of terminator armor and have been found to make deadly weapons against any form or armored target. A chainfist is treated exactly as a powerfist, but rolls Strength +2d6 (rather that 1d6) for armor penetration.

End of argument as it states it right here in this book, powerfist and chainfist are the same except for the added adamantine teeth. So stop saying its not what it is, another weapon its not....Sheesh use a brain cell.....

It's these added effects that seperate them. You've just posted the difference between a power fist and a chainfist, one has a chainblade attached and has added rules.
The rules state an extra attack is gained from two of the same weapon, not two weapons with similar rules and added effects. chainfist=/=powerfist.

Assume a model is equipped with a Power Fist and a Chain Fist.

Does he have a matched pair of Power Fists? No.
Does he have a matched pair of Chain Fists? No.

Then this model would not receive an extra attack in close combat.

DoW

This brings up an interesting question:

Does a model armed with a Chainfist, and a bolt pistol get the bonus attack?

As per Page 42 the answer is yes.

LordWynne wrote:Chaos Space Marine: Codex page 84.

CHAINFIST: A chainfist is a powerfist fitted with a chainblade attachment designed to carve through armored bulkheads or vehicles with its whirring adamantine teeth. Originally intended for use in boarading actions, chainfists can be fitted to a suit of terminator armor and have been found to make deadly weapons against any form or armored target. A chainfist is treated exactly as a powerfist, but rolls Strength +2d6 (rather that 1d6) for armor penetration.

End of argument as it states it right here in this book, powerfist and chainfist are the same except for the added adamantine teeth. So stop saying its not what it is, another weapon its not....Sheesh use a brain cell.....

BRB page 42 wrote:Two different special weapons
When it is their turn to attack, these models must choose which weapon to use that turn, but they never get the bonus attack for using two weapons (such is the penalty for wielding too many complex weapons!).

Are a chainfist and a powerfist the same special weapon?
Are a chainfist and a thunder hammer the same special weapon?

Because a Chain Fist isn't specifically listed under the weapons that require a matched pair to grant an extra attack?

Hmm, interesting.

Because they are "treated like a Power Fist in all respects" —leading me to believe they are limited by the same requirement of having matched pair to grant the extra attack— I would say no, they do not grant the extra attack unless you do indeed have a matched pair of Chain Fists.

I don't think this affects the fact that a Chain Fist still isn't a Power Fist, however, for the purposes of the Power Fist/Chain Fist combo issue.

DoW

DeathReaper wrote:This brings up an interesting question:

Does a model armed with a Chainfist, and a bolt pistol get the bonus attack?

As per Page 42 the answer is yes.

True that is an interesting question. Fortunatly it's one we can avoid, as far as I know no model can equip this combination (fair play if you can find one though).

I think SM captains/CM can if not in TDA.

Chainfist isn't an option unless in TDA, and even then they both replace the same wargear.

How can a powerfist conver +1 attack with the Chainfist bonus against vehicles? That really doesn't make sense.

This is sorta a really good question, as It appears to be both legal and illegal (reasons to side either way). For this reason alone, I would err on the side of not, to avoid an unfair advantage.

DeathReaper wrote:This brings up an interesting question:

Does a model armed with a Chainfist, and a bolt pistol get the bonus attack?

As per Page 42 the answer is yes.

Almost positive it can't happen that you have a chainfist and pistol due to the need to be in terminator armour to buy a chainfist and the inability to buy a pistol in TDA.

So far. The next DA or BT codex may allow in.