Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

dogma wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
Routine nothing. ask any cop the worst calls to respond to and they'll tell you domestic violence calls. its not just the one being violent to the spouse you have to worry about, cops have been stabbed in the back by the "victim" during those situations.

Of course it was routine, being difficult doesn't make it not routine. This wasn't some kind of specially planned operation, as is the case with things like SWAT, and stings, it was an average cop (hopefully below average) that responded to a call.

And drawing your gun in that situation isn't going to protect you. Anyone that's sufficiently irrational to stab a person external to the dispute, who is also wearing a police uniform, is probably not going to be deterred by a gun. Indeed, they may well feel threatened enough to be more aggressive.

sirlynchmob wrote:
regardless though, when a cop tells you to put your hands up and control your dog, you better control your dog. the cop didn't go there with his gun drawn he drew his gun "Paxton went to grab something from his truck, when the officer drew his gun and told him to freeze, the Web page said. Cisco then ran at the officer, who fatally shot the dog. "

How does one control one's dog with his hands in the air?

Either way, I don't place any faith in the cop's word. Police departments have a long history of covering up the errors of their employees.

I'm also wondering why there was only 1 cop.

His partner went to the bathroom but when he went to wipe…

On what planet do cops pull a gun on the first guy they see again?

http://www.weareaustin.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_1269.shtml?fb_ref=.T4ywC190zx8.like&fb_source=home_oneline

Frazzled wrote:On what planet do cops pull a gun on the first guy they see?

East Austin, Texas. And apparently Canada where I have recently called the RCMP to come to sirlynchmob's nieghbors's house, they got off thier horses with guns (politely) drawn and shot his pet moose to death after telling him to put his hands up and control his dog. When the moose meandered towards them chewing aquatic plant life the Mounties responded with deadly force, eh.
The owner is reported to have said:

sirlynchmob wrote:Put yourself in the cops shoes, he did absolutely the right thing. I invited him inside to have relations with my wife and offered him some fries and mayonnaise for going out of his way, to my house instead of the one with loud drunken shenanigans going on.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Frazzled beat me to it, but was the dog eating Skittles and drinking an Arizona?

Just a heads up: I'm not Frazzled.

AustonT wrote:
Just a heads up: I'm not Frazzled.

You could be if you work really hard at it.

I love that T bone has a halter AND a collar

Really? Thats like walking up to my Yellow Lab who whines like a cat. And Shots him.

That is a horribely stupid case for defending him. He is defending himself from a 1 foot tall canine animal that was just minutes before playing frisibee with his owner.

Yes because it is right to walk onto someone's property (might I add the wrong address), and tells someone to freeze gun drawn. Yes that is perfectly acceptable!

All I can say is

Thats like shooting a child with a water gun.

AustonT wrote:I love that T bone has a halter AND a collar

8 lbs of CRANKY OLD MAN!

AustonT wrote:

Frazzled wrote:On what planet do cops pull a gun on the first guy they see?

East Austin, Texas. And apparently Canada where I have recently called the RCMP to come to sirlynchmob's nieghbors's house, they got off thier horses with guns (politely) drawn and shot his pet moose to death after telling him to put his hands up and control his dog. When the moose meandered towards them chewing aquatic plant life the Mounties responded with deadly force, eh.
The owner is reported to have said:

sirlynchmob wrote:Put yourself in the cops shoes, he did absolutely the right thing. I invited him inside to have relations with my wife and offered him some fries and mayonnaise for going out of his way, to my house instead of the one with loud drunken shenanigans going on.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Frazzled beat me to it, but was the dog eating Skittles and drinking an Arizona?

Just a heads up: I'm not Frazzled.

@frazzled, if you go to an address thinking a domestic violence (DV) problem is going on, and you see a texan reaching into his truck, there are good odds he's going for a gun. so you draw just to be sure until you can figure out what is going on.

@austinT fries and mayo? Please, we put gravy on dem fries and cheese. Then we invite the cops over for the moose BBQ. Everyone apologizes, we hug, we send xmas cards and keep in touch. donchaknow.

@dogma really? you can't CALL your dog off because your hands are in the air? what is your dog deaf and you only use sign language?

@asherian, yes it is right for the cop to walk onto the property, he had probably cause. The person who reported the DV gave that address, so the cop went to that address to check it out. He tells the owner to call off his dog while backing up, owner does nothing, dog gets shot.

I think I got everyone, if not, shoot the dog.

sirlynchmob wrote:
@dogma really? you can't CALL your dog off because your hands are in the air? what is your dog deaf and you only use sign language?

The vast, vast majority of dogs don't respond immediately to verbal commands, sort of like people really.

Also, there is a gun pointed at you, which has a tendency to stop the whole thinking process and replace it with "Oh feth, that guy is pointing a gun at me!"

dogma wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
@dogma really? you can't CALL your dog off because your hands are in the air? what is your dog deaf and you only use sign language?

The vast, vast majority of dogs don't respond immediately to verbal commands, sort of like people really.

Also, there is a gun pointed at you, which has a tendency to stop the whole thinking process and replace it with "Oh feth, that guy is pointing a gun at me!"

Mine do, he just need one moment to say "HEAL" and the dog should have went and sat down next to him.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Mine do, he just need one moment to say "HEAL" and the dog should have went and sat down next to him.

Your dogs are apparently trained to a professional level. Only a few dogs I've encountered will instantly respond to a command that is drastically our of sync with its current activity, which is what "heel" is when its prefaced by playing.

And, even if that's expected, pulling a gun on the first person you see is stupid, as is responding to a call alone.

I've seen a well behaved dog that was professionally trained go nuts when someone walked into the house with one of bright orange but large Nerf rifle. If the dog felt the master was threatened it might act differently than normal, and even take longer to respond to commands. Just because a pet is quick to react while someone is watching TV doesn't mean they may act differently in a situation where they think you are threatened, even if it is as simple as not responding instantly.

Depends on the call. DV situations can be bad, but as you said before, they're also common calls. If they dispatched one officer, they probably didn't think it sounded too bad.

We have too little info to judge, really. From the info given it sounds to me like the officer had his gun out too quickly. But we don't know exactly what he saw in that yard.

dogma wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
Mine do, he just need one moment to say "HEAL" and the dog should have went and sat down next to him.

Your dogs are apparently trained to a professional level. Only a few dogs I've encountered will instantly respond to a command that is drastically our of sync with its current activity, which is what "heel" is when its prefaced by playing.

And, even if that's expected, pulling a gun on the first person you see is stupid, as is responding to a call alone.

I wouldn't say I was a professional trainer, My dad was though, he worked with german sheppards since viet nam. I grew up with them, we always had at least one. The one thing he taught me was to control your dogs. If you own a dog, you need to train it so it understands some word that means sit down and shut up. Because its not just the cops that come to your door, its the mail men, the girl scouts, those damn witnesses, the neighborhood kids who jump your fence. If your dog bites someone, it dies, and you get fined or sued. Letting your dog charge up and challenge people is just bad, you can encourage them to bark at strangers, but they don't need to get it in their head its ok to rush them.

Then when a cop says, control your dog, you better be shouting HEAL or HEEL . (I should really stop typing after my nightcap) Then if they don't immediately respond you better keep saying it til it does, or in that situation it could get shot.

sirlynchmob wrote:Letting your dog charge up and challenge people is just bad, you can encourage them to bark at strangers, but they don't need to get it in their head its ok to rush them.

There's more to it than that, though. You have to factor in the size of the dog, the dog's outward demeanor, the type of dog it is, and realistically the type of neighborhood you're in. The dog in this case was not a real threat, a 35 pound, non-poisonous animal isn't a major threat on its own. Had it been say, a St. Bernard, a German Shepherd, or even a Poodle yeah that dog running at you is threatening because it could realistically prevent you from doing anything other than not letting it kill you if it latches on.

That being said, this isn't the worst case of excessive force I've seen as regards dogs. Back in the day I was spending the night at my grandma's house, and at around 4 pm there was a lot of noise next door due to loud music out back (they were having a bbq), so she called in a noise complaint. Now this house was wholly fenced in, it had the white picket fence up front, and a taller privacy fence out back. So, when the cops came, 2 of them, they saw very clearly the Schnauzer that was frolicking through the front yard. They then, rather than walk up the drive, decided to open the gate and proceed to the front door. The Schnauzer, being friendly and essentially unsupervised (but contained on private property) ran up the cop and started dancing around him playfully, the cop drew his gun and shot it twice.

I very clearly remember my grandmother not only cursing the cop up and down (she doesn't curse) but slapping the living gak out of him (she's afraid of driving on highways).

sirlynchmob wrote:

dogma wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
Mine do, he just need one moment to say "HEAL" and the dog should have went and sat down next to him.

Your dogs are apparently trained to a professional level. Only a few dogs I've encountered will instantly respond to a command that is drastically our of sync with its current activity, which is what "heel" is when its prefaced by playing.

And, even if that's expected, pulling a gun on the first person you see is stupid, as is responding to a call alone.

I wouldn't say I was a professional trainer, My dad was though, he worked with german sheppards since viet nam. I grew up with them, we always had at least one. The one thing he taught me was to control your dogs. If you own a dog, you need to train it so it understands some word that means sit down and shut up. Because its not just the cops that come to your door, its the mail men, the girl scouts, those damn witnesses, the neighborhood kids who jump your fence. If your dog bites someone, it dies, and you get fined or sued. Letting your dog charge up and challenge people is just bad, you can encourage them to bark at strangers, but they don't need to get it in their head its ok to rush them.

Then when a cop says, control your dog, you better be shouting HEAL or HEEL . (I should really stop typing after my nightcap) Then if they don't immediately respond you better keep saying it til it does, or in that situation it could get shot.

"show me your hands! Get your dog." bang.
With literally no pauses of any kind. You keep defending this guy all you want. Failure to identify yourself as a police officer with weapon in hand, the cops lucky he didn't get shot. And why the feth does it sound like he is on Yahoo IM in his cruiser? Do cops use mIRC or YIM officially?

If there is one thing I can't stand, its the sheer bias that dog owners have when they insist their Doberman/Rottweiler/Pitbull/Husky/AnyDog is a 'harmless' animal when they purposefully allow the animal to run upto strangers. What the officer did was regrettable but he certainly should not be punished for the owners mistake in being unable to control their animal. The majority of dog owners disgust me.

For every one of these situations...there are two of these: http://www.wtae.com/news/30473251/detail.html

Mr Hyena wrote:If there is one thing I can't stand, its the sheer bias that dog owners have when they insist their Doberman/Rottweiler/Pitbull/Husky/AnyDog is a 'harmless' animal when they purposefully allow the animal to run upto strangers.

If you are sufficiently threatened by a 35 pound dog, that doesn't appear rabid, to open fire then you shouldn't be in a dangerous occupation; like police work.

Mr Hyena wrote:
What the officer did was regrettable but he certainly should not be punished for the owners mistake in being unable to control their animal.

He made several errors, or at least seems to have given the information available, not the least of which is subjecting the department to public scrutiny. For that alone he should be investigated and reprimanded.

This sort of thing is bound to happen occasionally in such a tooled-up society as the US.

It's just a mistake. While there should be an investigation, no amount of reprimands, etc will stop something like this from happening again.

If you don't want incidents like this, don't arm your police.

Then you have to accept that unarmed police will get into incidents like this one instead.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/22/five-police-officers-mauled-dog

If you are sufficiently threatened by a 35 pound dog, that doesn't appear rabid, to open fire then you shouldn't be in a dangerous occupation; like police work.

So...getting mauled is ok?

He made several errors, or at least seems to have given the information available, not the least of which is subjecting the department to public scrutiny. For that alone he should be investigated and reprimanded.

The only mistake is that he didn't declare himself as a police officer properly. Thats about it.

If you don't want incidents like this, don't arm your police.

Unarmed police are jokes. They aren't taken seriously enough.

Mr Hyena wrote:
So...getting mauled is ok?

What adult male capable of being a police officer is going to be mauled by an Australian Cattle Dog?

Mr Hyena wrote:
The only mistake is that he didn't declare himself as a police officer properly. Thats about it.

He drew his gun without provocation, and shot the dog.

The department also made a mistake in only dispatching one officer.

Mr Hyena wrote:If there is one thing I can't stand, its the sheer bias that dog owners have when they insist their Doberman/Rottweiler/Pitbull/Husky/AnyDog is a 'harmless' animal when they purposefully allow the animal to run upto strangers. What the officer did was regrettable but he certainly should not be punished for the owners mistake in being unable to control their animal. The majority of dog owners disgust me.

For every one of these situations...there are two of these: http://www.wtae.com/news/30473251/detail.html

As a counterpart, I think its fair to say you disgust the majority of dog owners. How does it feel to find a substantial portion of the human race finds you disgusting? Tell me all about it. Pay no attention to the young wiener dog ambling up to your ankle...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:This sort of thing is bound to happen occasionally in such a tooled-up society as the US.

It's just a mistake. While there should be an investigation, no amount of reprimands, etc will stop something like this from happening again.

If you don't want incidents like this, don't arm your police.

Then you have to accept that unarmed police will get into incidents like this one instead.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/22/five-police-officers-mauled-dog

UNACCEPTABLE. On other more police oriented boards, the vets cops are all over the situation, starting with coming out with your weapon drawn.

Albatross wrote:As both a dog-lover and brutal authoritarian, I have mixed feelings about this story.

Yeah me too..

feth it, the rozzer was out of order. I have little respect for most policemen these days, their training is too easy and their arses are too fat.

But generally, Im pretty much in favour of them caving hippies skulls in with their truncheons.

I mean, I merely dislike cops, I hate hippies, chavs, protesters, union reps.. etc.

Well, and about another thousand groups of people, but If I reel off the hate list Ill be here until the 41st millenium.

Cop responds to a domestic violence call, arrives to a location where he does not know what is really happening. Person goes to the truck to get an unknown object and dog runs towards him. Cop draws gun to stop a potentially dangerous situation and shoots a dog that is potentially attacking him. Dakka is outraged.

Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman shoots black kid. Dakka things the thug black kid had it coming.

Stay classy Dakka.

d-usa wrote:Cop responds to a domestic violence call, arrives to a location where he does not know what is really happening. Person goes to the truck to get an unknown object and dog runs towards him. Cop draws gun to stop a potentially dangerous situation and shoots a dog that is potentially attacking him. Dakka is outraged.

Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman shoots black kid. Dakka things the thug black kid had it coming.

Stay classy Dakka.

Seriously, I remember the thread, and its not like many people were saying the kid deserved to get slotted. I think your reading what you want to read and disregarding the rest.

Way more people said that the incident needed to be resolved properly, than "feth it the kid deserved it!"

d-usa wrote:Cop responds to a domestic violence call, arrives to a location where he does not know what is really happening. Person goes to the truck to get an unknown object and dog runs towards him. Cop draws gun to stop a potentially dangerous situation and shoots a dog that is potentially attacking him. Dakka is outraged.

Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman shoots black kid. Dakka things the thug black kid had it coming.

Stay classy Dakka.

Nice, well said.

sirlynchmob wrote:

d-usa wrote:Cop responds to a domestic violence call, arrives to a location where he does not know what is really happening. Person goes to the truck to get an unknown object and dog runs towards him. Cop draws gun to stop a potentially dangerous situation and shoots a dog that is potentially attacking him. Dakka is outraged.

Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman shoots black kid. Dakka things the thug black kid had it coming.

Stay classy Dakka.

Nice, well said.

Only if you have a keen grasp of nothing.

d-usa wrote:Cop responds to a domestic violence call, arrives to a location where he does not know what is really happening. Cop draws gun Person goes to the truck to get an unknown object shoots and dog runs towards him. Blatantly lies to supervisor. Dakka is outraged.

Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman shoots black kid that is potentially attacking him.. Dakka things the thug black kid had it coming.

Stay classy Dakka.

Made subtle changes or "fixed tha for you"

sirlynchmob wrote:

Nice, well said.

At least now we know you are trolling.

And knowing is half the battle!

AustonT wrote:

d-usa wrote:Cop responds to a domestic violence call, arrives to a location where he does not know what is really happening. Cop draws gun Person goes to the truck to get an unknown object shoots and dog runs towards him. Blatantly lies to supervisor. Dakka is outraged.

Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman shoots black kid that is potentially attacking him.. Dakka things the thug black kid had it coming.

Stay classy Dakka.

Made subtle changes or "fixed tha for you"

sirlynchmob wrote:

Nice, well said.

At least now we know you are trolling.

so where did any report say he lied to his superior? you still forgot, the warning "hands up and control your dog"

If the owner had controlled his dog, his dog would still be alive.