Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

sirlynchmob wrote:

AustonT wrote:

d-usa wrote:Cop responds to a domestic violence call, arrives to a location where he does not know what is really happening. Cop draws gun Person goes to the truck to get an unknown object shoots and dog runs towards him. Blatantly lies to supervisor. Dakka is outraged.

Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman shoots black kid that is potentially attacking him.. Dakka things the thug black kid had it coming.

Stay classy Dakka.

Made subtle changes or "fixed tha for you"

sirlynchmob wrote:

Nice, well said.

At least now we know you are trolling.

so where did any report say he lied to his superior? you still forgot, the warning "hands up and control your dog"

If the owner had controlled his dog, his dog would still be alive.

hard to control your dog with your hands in the air. AND WHY DID THE COP GO IN WITH HIS PISTOL DRAWN?

Frazzled wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

d-usa wrote:Cop responds to a domestic violence call, arrives to a location where he does not know what is really happening. Person goes to the truck to get an unknown object and dog runs towards him. Cop draws gun to stop a potentially dangerous situation and shoots a dog that is potentially attacking him. Dakka is outraged.

Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman shoots black kid. Dakka things the thug black kid had it coming.

Stay classy Dakka.

Nice, well said.

Only if you have a keen grasp of nothing.

You keep demonizing the cop while ignoring what was actually going on there. from the article you linked:
""I was in my back yard with my dog and came out to get something from my truck. When I came into my driveway there was an officer who pulled his gun and told me to put my hands in the air. Cisco was behind me coming out of the yard and started barking and ran towards the officer. The officer shot and killed him. I couldn't stop the dog because the officer was pointing a gun at me.""

Now we add in from the audio, the officer said "put your hands up and control your dog"

Judging from the owners own account of the situation, he had plenty of time to control his dog.

The officer did not go in with his gun drawn, he drew it when he saw the suspect going into his truck. I'd like to see a picture of the truck, how much do you want to bet he had a gun rack in the back?

There is always an investigation when shots are fired and I'm sure the cops history on the force will be taken into account. He'll not be fired for this, he probably will get a reprimand, but only to appease the public.

Because he was responding to a domestic abuse call, and you never know what to expect on a domestic abuse call?

I never did police work, but I have worked both EMS and spend 5 years volunteering with the fire department. And one thing every agency had in common is that if we respond to any domestic abuse call, we would not enter unless the cops have secured the scene. Domestic abuse calls are just too damn unpredictable, you don't know who the victim is, emotions are high, and people could easily turn on you.

I'm no criminal, but the basic rules I have learned from my parents when it comes to dealing with cops are pretty simple:

1) Address by rank if able, Sir/Ma'am otherwise.
2) No sudden movements, and don't reach for anything anywhere unless specifically told to do so.
3) Don't admit to anything.

Frazzled, usually you're the one accused of trolling. This time, you'rethe one beiing trolled, it's working probably due to you being a dog owner/lover, but sirlynch is clearly trolling you.

I'd say click the yellow triangle of friendship and ignore him.

MrDwhitey wrote:Frazzled, usually you're the one accused of trolling. This time, you'rethe one beiing trolled, it's working probably due to you being a dog owner/lover, but sirlynch is clearly trolling you.

I'd say click the yellow triangle of friendship and ignore him.

just because I disagree with him on this topic, does not mean I'm trolling him.

It's more that you're sharing the viewpoint with Hyena, a born troll.

I gotta say as someone who normally is on the police's side due to the extremely hard job a lot of them have to put up with that this is insane. He got the wrong guy in the wrong portion of the complex and shot his dog for probably coming up to say hi. A 35lb dog isn't a threat.

That said, was this a suitably medium to large dog, then I would be on the side of the cop. But we're not. We're talking about a small herding dog.....

MrDwhitey wrote:It's more that you're sharing the viewpoint with Hyena, a born troll.

Am I? I'm new here, i'm not really sure who is who, and who is serious or not, so I just go with the assumption people mean what they type.

What I find myself wondering this morning though is what happened to the people involved in the fight that got the cops called in the first place? did the cops ever get to the right house?

They should have gotten the information from the person who originally called, but did they call her back to try to get the right address?

While all this was going on somewhere there was a domestic violence issue going on that it seems no one responded to.

Its pretty amazing how many people are ok with a cop getting bitten by a dog, regardless of its size.

I suppose that can work...as long as cops are allowed to sue the bastards to hell.

A dog that size would have problems breaking the clothing and skin of most uniforms. Maybe the cop is a cat person. Since I can't imagine anyone who knows anything about dogs at all considering that dog a threat.

As for the cop suing if he's bitten by a dog. Hell yes. He's a citizen isn't he. I'd have no problem with that.

sirlynchmob wrote:
There is always an investigation when shots are fired and I'm sure the cops history on the force will be taken into account. He'll not be fired for this, he probably will get a reprimand, but only to appease the public.

Well, he might be, he is expendable after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Hyena wrote:Its pretty amazing how many people are ok with a cop getting bitten by a dog, regardless of its size.

I suppose that can work...as long as cops are allowed to sue the bastards to hell.

They took a dangerous job, so I'm fine with them suffering the likely consequences.

Sort of like I'm fine with soldiers dying.

dogma wrote:

Sort of like I'm fine with soldiers dying.

There are probably better ways to say this.

A dog that size would have problems breaking the clothing and skin of most uniforms

Theres a host of problems it can cause if it does break the skin however. Thats why its not cool at all to let your dog run upto random people. In fact, its something an asshat does.

As for the cop suing if he's bitten by a dog. Hell yes. He's a citizen isn't he. I'd have no problem with that.

Sure, so long as its 4-5 digit number minimum for the owner to pay.

Mr Hyena wrote:

A dog that size would have problems breaking the clothing and skin of most uniforms

Theres a host of problems it can cause if it does break the skin however. Thats why its not cool at all to let your dog run upto random people. In fact, its something an asshat does.

You are right he should have totally lunged to grab his dog, that way the headline could have been. "Man shot saving dog from rabid cop"
These police departments shouldn't let their cops run up to random people with their guns out, In fact it is something an asshat does.

AustonT wrote:

dogma wrote:

Sort of like I'm fine with soldiers dying.

There are probably better ways to say this.

Probably, I'm just feeling particularly ruthless.

Or realistic.

These police departments shouldn't let their cops run up to random people with their guns out, In fact it is something an asshat does.

1) Its a domestic violence situation, where tempers are usually flared. The police have been called so it must be significant.
2) The man was going for some item into his truck.

Caution is the best thing to do in a situation like that. Not walking into a situation that could get you shot, unarmed.

Mr Hyena wrote: Not walking into a situation that could get you shot, unarmed.

That's, essentially, what they're paid to do.

sirlynchmob wrote:

The officer did not go in with his gun drawn, he drew it when he saw the suspect going into his truck.

Just noticed in one of the news articles:

Austin police confirmed Monday that Officer Griffin got out of his patrol car with his weapon drawn.

From the http://www.kvue.com/home/Public-outrage-building-up-over-Austin-Police-Officer-who-fatally-shot-a-dog-147681755.html link.

Mr Hyena wrote:The police have been called so it must be significant.

Yeah maybe they had skittles and hoodies.

That dog doesn't even have to bite the cop to be a thread. If that dog causes a distraction, causes him to trip over it, stumble, or do anything else that would take his attention away from the other guy, then the cop is at danger.

MrDwhitey wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

The officer did not go in with his gun drawn, he drew it when he saw the suspect going into his truck.

Just noticed in one of the news articles:

Austin police confirmed Monday that Officer Griffin got out of his patrol car with his weapon drawn.

From the http://www.kvue.com/home/Public-outrage-building-up-over-Austin-Police-Officer-who-fatally-shot-a-dog-147681755.html link.

And from that same article:

“He did challenge him. He came out of the yard barking, running towards him, as he probably would for anybody,” said Paxton.

APD's policy regarding discharging a firearm due to an animal is as follows:
"1. In circumstances where officers encounter any animal which reasonably appears, under the circumstances, to pose and imminent threat to the safety of officers or others, officers are authorized to use deadly force to neutralize such a threat.

As far as the officer coming out of his patrol car with his weapon drawn. In order to make any kind of judgement on that I would have to know what sort of information was given to 911, and what information was relayed to the officer.

If the person that called 911 indicated that one of the people had a weapon (bat/knife/gun/whatever) or that one of the people was actively punching the snot out the other, then I have absolutely zero problem with an officer advancing into a dangerous information with his weapon drawn.

At the time of the event the only thing the officer knew was that he was responding to an address where a domestic abuse was in progress (we don't know the extend of the information provided to 911 as to what exactly was happening), he encountered a person going towards his truck to get something, and a dog that is charging him.

d-usa wrote:That dog doesn't even have to bite the cop to be a thread. If that dog causes a distraction, causes him to trip over it, stumble, or do anything else that would take his attention away from the other guy, then the cop is at danger.

That curb is in clear need of a bullet hole, that toddler too.

dogma wrote:

d-usa wrote:That dog doesn't even have to bite the cop to be a thread. If that dog causes a distraction, causes him to trip over it, stumble, or do anything else that would take his attention away from the other guy, then the cop is at danger.

That curb is in clear need of a bullet hole, that toddler too.

We're going to need more Dakka, Dogma.

A lot more Dakka.

@d-usa

I get what your saying but I disagree that what I would consider a small dog is a reasonable threat to the safety of the officer.

Like I said earlier I'm on the side of the police 90% of the time. This is just part of that 10% where I feel the officer did things wrong from the get go.

I'd also like to point out that no cop I know gets out of his car with his weapon drawn when there isn't a weapon in sight and no sounds of voilence nearby.

Well, like I said. I won't make any judgement on the gun until we know what information the officer had to work with.

d-usa wrote:
As far as the officer coming out of his patrol car with his weapon drawn. In order to make any kind of judgement on that I would have to know what sort of information was given to 911, and what information was relayed to the officer.

If the person that called 911 indicated that one of the people had a weapon (bat/knife/gun/whatever) or that one of the people was actively punching the snot out the other, then I have absolutely zero problem with an officer advancing into a dangerous information with his weapon drawn.

At the time of the event the only thing the officer knew was that he was responding to an address where a domestic abuse was in progress (we don't know the extend of the information provided to 911 as to what exactly was happening), he encountered a person going towards his truck to get something, and a dog that is charging him.

Domestic Disturbance != domestic abuse

Probably someone called the cops because they heard the neighbours shouting at each other really loud. If the dispatch had any reason to believe that violence of any kind was occurring I really doubt that they would only send a single car with a single cop in it...

Even before shooting the dog, the guy pointed a gun at an unarmed civilian without any provocation whatsoever, I have two comments to this:

1st - The cop should be fired for this reason alone, he is clearly unstable if his first reaction is to point a gun at some innocent civilian without even assessing the situation first, I have very little doubt in my mind that if the guy had tried to grab his dog, the cop would have shot him for making a sudden move...
2nd - I'm so happy to live in PIG country sometimes... other times, not so much.

PhantomViper wrote:

d-usa wrote:
As far as the officer coming out of his patrol car with his weapon drawn. In order to make any kind of judgement on that I would have to know what sort of information was given to 911, and what information was relayed to the officer.

If the person that called 911 indicated that one of the people had a weapon (bat/knife/gun/whatever) or that one of the people was actively punching the snot out the other, then I have absolutely zero problem with an officer advancing into a dangerous information with his weapon drawn.

At the time of the event the only thing the officer knew was that he was responding to an address where a domestic abuse was in progress (we don't know the extend of the information provided to 911 as to what exactly was happening), he encountered a person going towards his truck to get something, and a dog that is charging him.

Domestic Disturbance != domestic abuse

Probably someone called the cops because they heard the neighbours shouting at each other really loud. If the dispatch had any reason to believe that violence of any kind was occurring I really doubt that they would only send a single car with a single cop in it...

Even before shooting the dog, the guy pointed a gun at an unarmed civilian without any provocation whatsoever, I have two comments to this:

1st - The cop should be fired for this reason alone, he is clearly unstable if his first reaction is to point a gun at some innocent civilian without even assessing the situation first, I have very little doubt in my mind that if the guy had tried to grab his dog, the cop would have shot him for making a sudden move...
2nd - I'm so happy to live in PIG country sometimes... other times, not so much.

You know now that the civilian is innocent, good for you.

The cop knew he was responding to a domestic call, and that a person was making a move to a truck to get something. That could have easily been a weapon, and the cop has to act accordingly. If the cop had shot the civilian, then you would have a point. But if you are facing a cop, you don't make any moves for anything. It is as simple as that.

Trust me, if you are in your car and stopped by a cop ,and while the cop is walking towards your car he sees you reach for your glove compartment, 9 times out of 10 you will have a gun pointed at you. Cops don't survive with a "everything will always be alright" mindset, especially in a big city like Austin.

d-usa wrote:
You know now that the civilian is innocent, good for you.

The cop knew he was responding to a domestic call, and that a person was making a move to a truck to get something. That could have easily been a weapon, and the cop has to act accordingly. If the cop had shot the civilian, then you would have a point. But if you are facing a cop, you don't make any moves for anything. It is as simple as that.

Trust me, if you are in your car and stopped by a cop ,and while the cop is walking towards your car he sees you reach for your glove compartment, 9 times out of 10 you will have a gun pointed at you. Cops don't survive with a "everything will always be alright" mindset, especially in a big city like Austin.

The guy was walking towards his truck, he wasn't there yet (from what I've read of several news articles), which means that the cop didn't have any reason to pull out his gun and point it at him just yet. Now I don't know allot about US police procedures (other than watching COPS), but walking towards a closed car isn't reason enough to be threatened at gun point even before being addressed by the police around here...

Isn't there a law of some kind preventing the cops from waving their guns around before even assessing a situation? Can a normal US citizen just have a gun pointed at his head just because the cop felt like it?

And you said it yourself, "But if you are facing a cop, you don't make any moves for anything.", so how was he supposed to restrain the dog without getting himself shot?

Police in america seem way too triggerhappy to me. I mean, I know they have to be armed, but they don't have to USE the gun so damn much.

My dad was an unarmed policeman in Ireland for years. You say people don't respect the police, but they respected him, well enough. Sometimes he got beaten up, but that was part of the job. He once had to arrest a fella in a house. He came in by the back door while some others went in around the front to get him. Unluckily for my dad, the guy had a kerry blue- a sort of large, muscular and particularly tenacious terrier. I've seen one lugging a deer carcass by the throat happily through a flooded river. This ball of muscular territorial rage attacked my dad, who thanks to a rough rural upbringing was well versed at handling vicious dogs, and chucked it out the back door without too much fuss. As he was moving into the next room, the little bastard came through the glass door (smashing it with his head) and sank his teeth into the back of Dad's leg. He had to beat the gak out of the dog and lock it in the back room!

He doesn't look on that as a "Oh, I should have had a gun to shoot that dog, the danger was unacceptable" issue. He looks on it as "Don't feth with a Kerry Blue, they'll come at you through plate glass." story. He's had to break up huge mobs of rioting travellers with nothing but a truncheon and a hi vis jacket. And he did it too. Never start on an old irish copper, is my advice. I tried it once when drunk (jokingly) and was promptly floored by a fifty year old with bad feet and lower back pain.

PhantomViper wrote:

d-usa wrote:
You know now that the civilian is innocent, good for you.

The cop knew he was responding to a domestic call, and that a person was making a move to a truck to get something. That could have easily been a weapon, and the cop has to act accordingly. If the cop had shot the civilian, then you would have a point. But if you are facing a cop, you don't make any moves for anything. It is as simple as that.

Trust me, if you are in your car and stopped by a cop ,and while the cop is walking towards your car he sees you reach for your glove compartment, 9 times out of 10 you will have a gun pointed at you. Cops don't survive with a "everything will always be alright" mindset, especially in a big city like Austin.

The guy was walking towards his truck, he wasn't there yet (from what I've read of several news articles), which means that the cop didn't have any reason to pull out his gun and point it at him just yet. Now I don't know allot about US police procedures (other than watching COPS), but walking towards a closed car isn't reason enough to be threatened at gun point even before being addressed by the police around here...

Isn't there a law of some kind preventing the cops from waving their guns around before even assessing a situation? Can a normal US citizen just have a gun pointed at his head just because the cop felt like it?

Rule #4 for dealing with cops: If you think that anything the cop is doing is wrong or unlawful, then you fight it afterwards. The time the cop is giving you an unlawful order is not the time to fight it.

PhantomViper wrote:
And you said it yourself, "But if you are facing a cop, you don't make any moves for anything.", so how was he supposed to restrain the dog without getting himself shot?

Train his next dog better?