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2012/04/26 06:56:27
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Bry648 wrote:I was thinking that to. But, it seems in recent fluff the Ig is aware of chaos. But the most simple explanation I can come up at the moment is have a inquisitor or ex sob inquisitor lead the army and requesition a group of SOB to help him or her out.
Well in dark heresy, a sister of battle can become an Inquisitor, so if you want to have an Inquisitor who use to be a sister of battle, that is fine. It would also help explain why she has a 4+ armour save.
2012/04/26 06:58:27
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Ie: You need an Inquisitor.]I was thinking that to. But, it seems in recent fluff the Ig is aware of chaos. But the most simple explanation I can come up at the moment is have a inquisitor or ex sob inquisitor lead the army and requesition a group of SOB to help him or her out.
Have an Inquisitor lead the army. Your problem is solved.
You may not say no to a Living Saint out of a sense of piety.
You Will Not say no to an Inquisitor if you want keep your life.......at least for now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/26 06:59:09
2012/04/26 07:03:00
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
ContemplativeSphinx wrote:If you have a bunch of IG regiments who hold at least some nominal faith in the God-Emperor
IE almost all of them, despite what the Cain books would have you believe
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/04/26 07:07:50
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Bry648 wrote:I was thinking that to. But, it seems in recent fluff the Ig is aware of chaos. But the most simple explanation I can come up at the moment is have a inquisitor or ex sob inquisitor lead the army and requesition a group of SOB to help him or her out.
Well in dark heresy, a sister of battle can become an Inquisitor, so if you want to have an Inquisitor who use to be a sister of battle, that is fine. It would also help explain why she has a 4+ armour save.
I'm not transferring the stats. Also, is it possible for guardsmen to have implants? No! not those kind of implants you were thinking of. I mean like bionics suchs as cybernetic eyes for marksmen and processor implants for coordinators.
Sisters of divinity
501st Mechanized imperial regiment "The Iron fist"
Currently, working on a massive fan-fiction! A story about a rouge inquisitor and SoB diplomat. Message me for a preview!
2012/04/26 07:10:47
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Bry648 wrote:I was thinking that to. But, it seems in recent fluff the Ig is aware of chaos. But the most simple explanation I can come up at the moment is have a inquisitor or ex sob inquisitor lead the army and requesition a group of SOB to help him or her out.
Well in dark heresy, a sister of battle can become an Inquisitor, so if you want to have an Inquisitor who use to be a sister of battle, that is fine. It would also help explain why she has a 4+ armour save.
I'm not transferring the stats. Also, is it possible for guardsmen to have implants? No! not those kind of implants you were thinking of. I mean like bionics suchs as cybernetic eyes for marksmen and processor implants for coordinators.
Yes, but anything a bit too advanced and you'll be encroaching on the Skitarrii/Tech-Guard's turf.
2012/04/26 07:15:15
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Bry648 wrote:Also, is it possible for guardsmen to have implants? No! not those kind of implants you were thinking of. I mean like bionics suchs as cybernetic eyes for marksmen and processor implants for coordinators.
Sure, although the higher rank you have the better for actually getting anything. Commissar Yarrick has an orkish Power Klaw modified to work as a bionic limb and a bionic eye with a built-in laser. Straken is so extensively cybered-up that he has stats far beyond mortal men and even rips apart tanks with his bare hands. A man of the line isn't likely to get anything so shiny or powerful.
2012/04/26 07:15:37
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Bry648 wrote:I was thinking that to. But, it seems in recent fluff the Ig is aware of chaos. But the most simple explanation I can come up at the moment is have a inquisitor or ex sob inquisitor lead the army and requesition a group of SOB to help him or her out.
Well in dark heresy, a sister of battle can become an Inquisitor, so if you want to have an Inquisitor who use to be a sister of battle, that is fine. It would also help explain why she has a 4+ armour save.
I'm not transferring the stats. Also, is it possible for guardsmen to have implants? No! not those kind of implants you were thinking of. I mean like bionics suchs as cybernetic eyes for marksmen and processor implants for coordinators.
Yes, but anything a bit too advanced and you'll be encroaching on the Skitarrii/Tech-Guard's turf.
hmm, what do you assume would be to high tech for ig?
Sisters of divinity
501st Mechanized imperial regiment "The Iron fist"
Currently, working on a massive fan-fiction! A story about a rouge inquisitor and SoB diplomat. Message me for a preview!
2012/04/26 07:15:45
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
ContemplativeSphinx wrote:If you have a bunch of IG regiments who hold at least some nominal faith in the God-Emperor
IE almost all of them, despite what the Cain books would have you believe
LOL - well i think Cain books are just generally irreverent. The Fallible side of human (and even alien/daemonic) nature is put on display to laugh and shake our head at.
As for the religiousity of the member of the IG - i think it varies from an almost deeply pious sense of awe and wonder for the God-Emperor to something akin to well...
To paraphrase what a 40k fan/Military Serviceman once told me on his opinion on the matter:
Why do we support the God-Emperor? Is it because he's all good? Is it because he is the creator of the Universe?
No.
He's our boy in the Fight. He Pulls for Me, I'll pull for him.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bry648 wrote:
Yes, but anything a bit too advanced and you'll be encroaching on the Skitarrii/Tech-Guard's turf.
hmm, what do you assume would be to high tech for ig?
Great big general rule of thumb?
Whatever the Mechancius have, the "regular" (or perhaps average) IG unit has an inferior version. This changes of course depending on the specialization of the regiment/circumstances of the planet they originated from.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/26 07:28:19
2012/04/26 08:04:17
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
To be honest I think it would just be the quality of the implant and maybe Mechadendrites, sub dermal plating, multiple implants, and any biological implant. So as i said simpler stuff and only to people who server a very specific role such neural interlinking with vehicles, implanted vox communicators and processors to cordnaitors, and implants in the arms for heavy weapon teams.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To be honest I think it would just be the quality of the implant and maybe Mechadendrites, sub dermal plating, multiple implants, and any biological implant. So as i said simpler stuff and only to people who server a very specific role such neural interlinking with vehicles, implanted vox communicators and processors to cordnaitors, and implants in the arms for heavy weapon teams. I can't Wait to start writing the fluff for my regiment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/26 08:05:38
Sisters of divinity
501st Mechanized imperial regiment "The Iron fist"
Currently, working on a massive fan-fiction! A story about a rouge inquisitor and SoB diplomat. Message me for a preview!
2012/04/26 09:17:11
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
The Living Saint poses a really good point. While no Sister of Battle would have the authority to command Imperial Guard regiments, I cannot imagine an instance where the regiment would refuse the directions of an actual living saint, at least not without damning the commander in the eyes of the rest.
A possible example might be Sabbat Matyr, in the Gaunts Ghosts series.
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
2012/04/26 10:24:13
Subject: Re:Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Another example in BL fiction where the Guard have fought alongside the SoB is in one of the Cain books, I can't remember which off the top of my head. But there were a group of Sisters that, shall we say, weren't painted in the greatest light. From the description given, the Sisters in question were holding a position when the units on their flanks had fallen back. The Sisters refused to fall back as well, despite being ordered to... Probably several times.
It was down to Cain (as usual) to save their arses whilst trying his best to preserve his own
I can't remember it exactly as it's been a while since I read them; so apologies if I've mis-remembered. But I think this instance is one that shows the Sisters are a seperate entity, rather than a unit attached at-will to Guard formations. I can see them working together on the same battlefield, but I think they should remain as entirely seperate forces.
Tibbsy wrote:Another example in BL fiction where the Guard have fought alongside the SoB is in one of the Cain books, I can't remember which off the top of my head. But there were a group of Sisters that, shall we say, weren't painted in the greatest light. From the description given, the Sisters in question were holding a position when the units on their flanks had fallen back. The Sisters refused to fall back as well, despite being ordered to... Probably several times.
Sandy Mitchel can't write sisters to save his life. This is rather well known-- he is completely incapable of depicting anyone who is religious as competent.
Sisters also cannot be ordered to do anything by the Guard as they are outside the Guard's command structure, for the same reason as the Guard cannot command Sisters, Marines or Mechanicus.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/04/26 12:39:30
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/04/26 12:44:06
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Kanluwen wrote:The Sororitas are regarded as zealous individuals--with no real grasp of tactics.
By the fans, not so much by the populace.
No Mel, by the Guardsmen who've served alongside of them.
The general populace see them as zealous enforcers of the Imperial creed. They see them as protectors of the faithful, the weak and the innocent. The general populace has more contact with the less militant Sororitas Orders, like the Hospitallers.
The Guard who have served alongside the more militant Orders are quite aware of the fact that the Sororitas accomplish quite amazing feats of battle through sheer stubbornness.
2012/04/26 12:44:08
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Tibbsy wrote:Another example in BL fiction where the Guard have fought alongside the SoB is in one of the Cain books, I can't remember which off the top of my head. But there were a group of Sisters that, shall we say, weren't painted in the greatest light. From the description given, the Sisters in question were holding a position when the units on their flanks had fallen back. The Sisters refused to fall back as well, despite being ordered to... Probably several times.
Sandy Mitchel can't write sisters to save his life. This is rather well known-- he is completely incapable of depicting anyone who is religious as competent.
I disagree, I find his depictions of SoB to be wonderful.
Sisters also cannot be ordered to do anything by the Guard as they are outside the Guard's command structure, for the same reason as the Guard cannot command Sisters, Marines or Mechanicus.
Surely this can't work in practice though? I mean, you can't just have a whole bunch of uncoordinated military forces blundering into each other. Surely at some level one has to trump the other, and surely some forces would be placed, temporarily, under the command of the the others? It's the only way I can imagine it working.
"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?"
2012/04/26 12:48:39
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Melissia wrote:Also, Sabbat IIRC was not a part of the Sisters anyway, so that's not a good example.
A Living Saint, perhaps...
Sabbat was not a member of the Sororitas herself, but she was accompanied by a relatively lesser Order which sprung up around her. The Order died out, if I remember right, before the Sabbat Worlds Crusade began by defending Herodor and the Saint's remains.
2012/04/26 12:51:06
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Kaldor wrote:Surely this can't work in practice though? I mean, you can't just have a whole bunch of uncoordinated military forces blundering into each other. Surely at some level one has to trump the other, and surely some forces would be placed, temporarily, under the command of the the others? It's the only way I can imagine it working.
They advise eachother on what to do, and agree to a battle plan. They aren't subordinate to eachother, however-- perhaps they might place themselves at the service of a warmaster (though I've only ever heard of this specifically happening once, in the Sabbat Worlds Crusade, all the other times they seem to simply be cooperating with the other forces rather than directly under their warmasters), but even then the Astartes/Sororitas/Mechanicus are quite independent compared to the Guard.
It doesn't always work, though, you are certainly right.
Kanluwen wrote:The Guard who have served alongside the more militant Orders are quite aware of the fact that the Sororitas accomplish quite amazing feats of battle through sheer stubbornness.
Yes, but Sisters are not incompetents. They are trained in combat tactics and strategy, the history of war, and so on and so forth.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/26 12:51:44
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/04/26 12:51:41
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
The Omnibus 'Enforcer' by Matthew Farrer shows Sisters in a more disciplined light. It also shows them being manipulated by high-ranking Eclessiarchy figures (to some extent).
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
2012/04/26 13:35:01
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Kaldor wrote:Surely this can't work in practice though? I mean, you can't just have a whole bunch of uncoordinated military forces blundering into each other.
They advise eachother on what to do, and agree to a battle plan. They aren't subordinate to eachother, however-- perhaps they might place themselves at the service of a warmaster (though I've only ever heard of this specifically happening once, in the Sabbat Worlds Crusade, all the other times they seem to simply be cooperating with the other forces rather than directly under their warmasters), but even then the Astartes/Sororitas/Mechanicus are quite independent compared to the Guard.
Didn't the several battles for Armageddon have all involved place the most highly regarded Space Marine Commander in charge? As I recall Dante of the Blood Angels commanded one, and Helbrecht of the Black Templars handled the space battles in another? A politically astute senior commander wouldn't actually be ordering others about, ofc - he'd ask that they take this position and so on. And he'd do well in leaving any disciplinary matters in the hands of the force in question.
2012/04/26 13:35:40
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Kanluwen wrote:The Guard who have served alongside the more militant Orders are quite aware of the fact that the Sororitas accomplish quite amazing feats of battle through sheer stubbornness.
Yes, but Sisters are not incompetents. They are trained in combat tactics and strategy, the history of war, and so on and so forth.
They might be trained in the theories of war, but that does not mean they actively utilize said training.
2012/04/26 13:36:29
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Kanluwen wrote:The Guard who have served alongside the more militant Orders are quite aware of the fact that the Sororitas accomplish quite amazing feats of battle through sheer stubbornness.
Yes, but Sisters are not incompetents. They are trained in combat tactics and strategy, the history of war, and so on and so forth.
They might be trained in the theories of war, but that does not mean they actively utilize said training.
The same could be said about your beloved Cadians, too.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/04/26 13:44:52
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Kanluwen wrote:The Guard who have served alongside the more militant Orders are quite aware of the fact that the Sororitas accomplish quite amazing feats of battle through sheer stubbornness.
Yes, but Sisters are not incompetents. They are trained in combat tactics and strategy, the history of war, and so on and so forth.
They might be trained in the theories of war, but that does not mean they actively utilize said training.
The same could be said about your beloved Cadians, too.
In what regard?
I'm not saying "Sisters are stupid, and they deserve to die constantly!".
They simply are not, in universe, regarded by the Imperial Guard regiments of any notable renown as tactically competent. They have a different set of standards which they use to denote a "victory".
Those standards are fairly close to that of Orks, with the exception of the "We can't lose if we run away, because we're coming back for another go!" clause which is seemingly absent, as they'd rather get stuck in and go out in a glorious last stand than running away.
This results in them using a totally different set of tactics that one does not see in the majority of the Astartes Chapters or the Imperial Guard at large--where in the Astartes Chapters, each Battle-Brother is considered in a cost:benefit ratio as to whether or not the Imperium is best served by their death. The Imperial Guard regiments worth talking about utilize a similar--if less strict--ratio to consider.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/26 13:46:59
2012/04/26 14:11:27
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Wasting lives and manpower in useless endeavors, stupid commanders ordering futile actions for political reasons, etc. Part and parcel of the guard in general, and certainly there's no evidence that Cadians are that different.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/04/26 14:41:07
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Wasting lives and manpower in useless endeavors, stupid commanders ordering futile actions for political reasons, etc. Part and parcel of the guard in general, and certainly there's no evidence that Cadians are that different.
Other than the various novels we've had on them, the background on Creed, etc?
Anyways, that still does not refute the point I made. They are deemed tactically incompetent by the Guard's standards.
2012/04/26 15:17:41
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Absolutely not possible, except maybe in an ad hoc situation where the immediate IG command elements on the field are dead, and there is no contact with central command.
Sororitas and the Imperial Guard are two separate entities. In fact, Sororitas leading guardsmen could probably be considered a violation of the Decree Passive, since the Ecclesiarchy is not allowed to have men under arms, and as their Chamber Militant, the Sisters would be representatives of the Ecclesiarchy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/26 15:27:35
Fluff for the Fluff God!
2012/04/26 15:20:45
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
If you want to talk Codexes SOB used to be able to induct guard as allies. So if you want a Cannoness to lead your guard do it LOL.
As for not being tactical. In the Second Edition dex we were consider an highly tactical army and were able to turn our BSS into scouts.
As for the view of IG towards SOBs. They are a guiding light, protected by the will of the god-emperor and able to manifest miraculous events do to their faith... oh and they burn heretics. Who they can judge on the spot... Not to many guardsman are going to want to be labeled as a heretic when a SOB tells them what to do especially if the emperor is telling her what to do.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:The Guard who have served alongside the more militant Orders are quite aware of the fact that the Sororitas accomplish quite amazing feats of battle through sheer stubbornness.
Yes, but Sisters are not incompetents. They are trained in combat tactics and strategy, the history of war, and so on and so forth.
They might be trained in the theories of war, but that does not mean they actively utilize said training.
Ok there is a Philosophy here that you have to understand about them. They use it all but at the same time death in the service of the emperor is considered Martyrdom. They do look to die but if that's what it takes to further the emperors agenda then that's what they will do. The "Crazies" are the Repentia who feel that they have somehow dishonored the Order and the Emperor and there only atonement is the selfless sacrifice by doing his will. Just because we have a few doesn't mean everyone is like that LOL.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Omegus wrote:Absolutely not possible, except maybe in an ad hoc situation where the immediate IG command elements on the field are dead, and there is no contact with central command.
Sororitas and the Imperial Guard are two separate entities. In fact, Sororitas leading guardsmen could probably be considered a violation of the Decree Passive, since the Ecclesiarchy is not allowed to have men under arms, and as their Chamber Militant, the Sisters would be representatives of the Ecclesiarchy.
The loop-hole here is they would be assigned temporary status as inducted by the Ecclesiarchy, there by removing them from the IG command structure and then they would fall under the jurisdictional of the Cannoness who is representing Ecclesiarchy on a Holy Crusade.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/04/26 15:35:23
4000pts
2012/04/26 15:49:12
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Surely this can't work in practice though? I mean, you can't just have a whole bunch of uncoordinated military forces blundering into each other. Surely at some level one has to trump the other, and surely some forces would be placed, temporarily, under the command of the the others? It's the only way I can imagine it working.
It really wouldn't work in a more realistic setting now. Chaos can reign on a battlefield if the ground/air forces aren't coordinated well enough, and those at least even fall under the same general command structure.
GW has attempted to rectify this with the whole concept of a Warmaster though, who is given personal command of all Crusade forces by the High Lords of Terra themselves. By I believe Warmasters are fairly rare. There's also something called a War Council where the commanding representatives of every security force of the Imperium involved (IG, IN, SoB, Astartes, Titans/Skitarii, Inquisitors, etc.) have a representative and attempt to coordinate their actions during battle. In the IA books most of the time this results in a Space Marine Commander or Inquisitor de facto taking control of the forces (until the Space Marines leave the warzone after accomplishing their mission and leave the Guard to "mop up" anyway).
My Armies:
5,500pts 2,700pts 2,000pts
2012/04/26 15:52:01
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
Actually, in most of the IA books it is a Guard Commander in overall command of the forces with the Astartes operating on their own but in a way that "best fits" how they can support the Guard operations planetside.
The Badab War was kind of an exception to the rule, as we don't actually have any real numbers for Guard participation. It was mostly an Astartes v. Astartes affair, with the Inquisition involved in "purging" the planets afterwards.
2012/04/26 15:55:58
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
A little excerpt that might help you with your fluff
Saint Sabbat - Saint Sabbat is described as a beautiful, diminutive girl with short ebon-coloured hair and piercing green eyes. She was born to a simple shepherd on the pastoral world of Hagia in the region of the galaxy that would later become known as the Sabbat Worlds. Though humans loyal to the Imperium had established minor footholds within the region, much of this sector was quite wild and untamed, ruled by hostile xenos and the blasphemous followers of Chaos. Even those few worlds that were ostensibly loyal to the Emperor of Mankind were well outside the bounds of the Civitas Imperialis, whose main task was to guarantee the safety and assurance of any citizen of the Imperium of Mankind, wherever he or she traveled or set foot within the length and breadth of the galaxy. Little is known of her early life, save that the young girl experienced a powerful vision of the Emperor that helped inspire her to rally Mankind within this wild region of space and liberate it from those that would follow the Ruinous Powers. Her numerous achievements went on to overshadow many Imperial Commanders, whilst her teachings inspired Imperial citizens through their sheer simplicity and power, an understanding of the Imperial Creed that belied her humble origins. Saint Sabbat continued her Crusade to reclaim the Sabbat Worlds Sector for 105 years, until her eventual martyrdom on the world of Harkalon, where she suffered the Nine Holy Wounds. Her body was retrieved by the Space Marines of the White Scars Chapter and was later interred on the world of Hagia where they built the Shrinehold of Saint Sabbat. The Sector that would go on to bear her name was already considered fully incorporated within the Imperium at the time of her death. During the Sabbat Worlds Crusade tthat began anew in the 41st Millennium, the saint was said to have been reincarnated as an Esholi girl from Hagia who then led Imperial forces on the planet of Herodor and joined the Crusade's Warmaster at the front lines to inspire Imperial forces.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you want more this is one of the best SOB fluff places to go
St Sabbat was not a SoB, as previously stated in this thread.
Also, 40k wikia is not considered reliable.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2012/04/26 16:12:56
Subject: Sisters of battles acting as IG commanders?
40k wikia uses fanfiction sources. There's really nothing wrong with this-- fanfiction can be a great way to help enjoy the genre. But it's not really helpful for canon (assuming you believe in such a thing).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/26 16:13:06
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
4000pts
