Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I plan on making my IG army having strong ties with the sisters of battle. I was wondering If I could use SOB soldiers as count as commissar or sergeants. Is this possible fluff wise?

Sisters do ally with guards (and back in the day even had rules for it). So it is possible fluff wise for them to be on the same battlefield as allies and working together. That being said sisters are not allowed to take command of a guard regiment but can make suggestions and inspire the troops with their faith. So I don't see anything wrong with it expect for the fact that guard can't get a 3+ armour save.

Commander Straken would be great to use for a Sister of Battle Canoness or something of the sort. Got a 3+ save, WS5, Str6 power weapon, fearless, furious charge.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

I'm sure you could always add a few points on to the cost of your commander.

I think it costs around 20 to equip the whole command squad with a 4+. Perhaps you could pay 10-15 extra points for just your commander to get a 3+.

Just my view on the matter. I honestly wouldn't mind playing against an army that did so; would make a nice change.

I hope you don't mind if I expand the scope of the topic slightly; I'm curious as to what unique orders could be issued to guardsmen by this commander?

I think for the Honour of Cadia and get back to the fight would really work well for a sister commander. I don't think you would really need to make any unique orders.

SoB and Astartes aren't like Inquisitors, they can't just take command of an Imperial Guard army.

However it is common for an IG commander to willingly submit to the advice/authority of a Space Marine commander during a joint operation (this is gone into in-depth in many of the Imperial Armour Books). I imagine this could work the same way with the SoB, as they're certainly more elite then Guardsmen.

Theres always going to be jurisdictional problems when you have multiple military forces operating in the same place, and it's never really covered in the background. I mean, it's sometimes discussed, but never mentioned if there is any over-arching rules that apply. Theoretically you could have Naval commanders, IG commanders, Sororitas commanders and Astartes commanders. Who outranks who? Does a SM captain over-rule and admiral? Does Lord Militant of the IG over-rule a chapter-master?

Kaldor wrote:Theres always going to be jurisdictional problems when you have multiple military forces operating in the same place, and it's never really covered in the background. I mean, it's sometimes discussed, but never mentioned if there is any over-arching rules that apply. Theoretically you could have Naval commanders, IG commanders, Sororitas commanders and Astartes commanders. Who outranks who? Does a SM captain over-rule and admiral? Does Lord Militant of the IG over-rule a chapter-master?

You either form a war council or get an Inquisitor to be in charge.

Harriticus wrote:SoB and Astartes aren't like Inquisitors, they can't just take command of an Imperial Guard army.

However it is common for an IG commander to willingly submit to the advice/authority of a Space Marine commander during a joint operation (this is gone into in-depth in many of the Imperial Armour Books). I imagine this could work the same way with the SoB, as they're certainly more elite then Guardsmen.

Sisters? "More elite than Guardsmen"?

Hah.
They're certainly more "elite" than a conscripted tithe, but I wouldn't say they are more elite than a Guard Regiment raised outside of conscription which has been fighting for decades. They're better equipped, certainly, but equipment alone does not make one better.

A Guard regiment would not willingly submit their chain of command to the Sororitas. The Sororitas are regarded as zealous individuals--with no real grasp of tactics. They're regarded as doing exactly what Chenkov does: throwing waves of humans at the problem until it goes away.

Kanluwen wrote:

Harriticus wrote:SoB and Astartes aren't like Inquisitors, they can't just take command of an Imperial Guard army.

However it is common for an IG commander to willingly submit to the advice/authority of a Space Marine commander during a joint operation (this is gone into in-depth in many of the Imperial Armour Books). I imagine this could work the same way with the SoB, as they're certainly more elite then Guardsmen.

Sisters? "More elite than Guardsmen"?

Hah.
They're certainly more "elite" than a conscripted tithe, but I wouldn't say they are more elite than a Guard Regiment raised outside of conscription which has been fighting for decades. They're better equipped, certainly, but equipment alone does not make one better.

A Guard regiment would not willingly submit their chain of command to the Sororitas. The Sororitas are regarded as zealous individuals--with no real grasp of tactics. They're regarded as doing exactly what Chenkov does: throwing waves of humans at the problem until it goes away.

Please ignore all comments made by Kanluwen, as he is a sister of battle hater.

Necrosis wrote:
Please ignore all comments made by Kanluwen, as he is a sister of battle hater.

I do not put the Sororitas up on a pedestal, but I am certainly no "hater". It's ridiculous that you cannot phrase an argument without couching it as an attempt to discredit the poster rather than the post.

There's a reason my statement is made as such. The examples we have of the Sororitas having full tactical command of a battlefield are nonexistent in a combined forces aspect--with a caveat present. If the Guard in question is from a world with close ties to the Ecclesiarchy, they very well might submit to the command of the Sororitas.

The difference between the Guard submitting to the Sororitas and the Astartes is a simple one.
The Sororitas are regarded as zealous madwomen by the Guard at large. They are portrayed as sacrificing themselves out of sheer stubborn pride, refusing to hand over ground when they would best be served by retreating.
The Astartes on the other hand are viewed as something else entirely. They're living demigods with the blood of the Emperor and his sons flowing through them. They are war made manifest--warriors who are constantly at war, who view their lives not as a selfish individual would but rather as currency to be spent when necessary.

Kanluwen wrote:

Necrosis wrote:
Please ignore all comments made by Kanluwen, as he is a sister of battle hater.

I do not put the Sororitas up on a pedestal, but I am certainly no "hater". It's ridiculous that you cannot phrase an argument without couching it as an attempt to discredit the poster rather than the post.

There's a reason my statement is made as such. The examples we have of the Sororitas having full tactical command of a battlefield are nonexistent in a combined forces aspect--with a caveat present. If the Guard in question is from a world with close ties to the Ecclesiarchy, they very well might submit to the command of the Sororitas.

The difference between the Guard submitting to the Sororitas and the Astartes is a simple one.
The Sororitas are regarded as zealous madwomen by the Guard at large. They are portrayed as sacrificing themselves out of sheer stubborn pride, refusing to hand over ground when they would best be served by retreating.
The Astartes on the other hand are viewed as something else entirely. They're living demigods with the blood of the Emperor and his sons flowing through them. They are war made manifest--warriors who are constantly at war, who view their lives not as a selfish individual would but rather as currency to be spent when necessary.

Thank you for proving my point that you are a sister of battle hater. As for me not making an argument, your one to talk, you don't even back up your claims with any references.
Now, now lets not go off topic and start a whole war about this.

Necrosis wrote:
Thank you for proving my point that you are a sister of battle hater.

Er what? Because I said "they're regarded as zealous madwomen"?

They are. In every piece of background we have on them, as it stands now, they fit that profile pretty well.

As for me not making an argument, your one to talk, you don't even back up your claims with any references.

You don't seem to grasp what my statement was. I take issue with anyone whose reply to someone else is "Disregard this person because they don't like what I like!".

Anyways, you want some references?
How about "The 13th Black Crusade" sourcebook? Or "The Sabbat Worlds Crusade" sourcebook as well?
In both, the Sisters do not get overall tactical control, simply because they want to remain in a fight which is completely and utterly unwinnable. In "The 13th Black Crusade", they are lauded for doing so as it allowed for other forces to retreat in an orderly fashion but in "The Sabbat Worlds Crusade" the instance where they chose to make their stand resulted in nothing but the Sororitas being killed off and with that happening the other forces retreating being overrun and killed off as well.

Now, now lets not go off topic and start a whole war about this.

Then don't start a post by quoting someone and then saying "Disregard it because (I think) they hate what I like".

Moving along..(before a moderator decides to shut this thread down).

Appended Question - Why not step this up a little further then?

An IG/Sisters combination may have certain interdepartamental issues to work out - but what about a situation where the Sisters are being led by a Living Saint? Specifically a Living Saint who also happens to the be patron of the Sector where the Guardsmen come from?

It would be like the equivalent of having Solar Macharius on the ground....

Kanluwen wrote:

Necrosis wrote:
Thank you for proving my point that you are a sister of battle hater.

Er what? Because I said "they're regarded as zealous madwomen"?

They are. In every piece of background we have on them, as it stands now, they fit that profile pretty well.

As for me not making an argument, your one to talk, you don't even back up your claims with any references.

You don't seem to grasp what my statement was. I take issue with anyone whose reply to someone else is "Disregard this person because they don't like what I like!".

Anyways, you want some references?
How about "The 13th Black Crusade" sourcebook? Or "The Sabbat Worlds Crusade" sourcebook as well?
In both, the Sisters do not get overall tactical control, simply because they want to remain in a fight which is completely and utterly unwinnable. In "The 13th Black Crusade", they are lauded for doing so as it allowed for other forces to retreat in an orderly fashion but in "The Sabbat Worlds Crusade" the instance where they chose to make their stand resulted in nothing but the Sororitas being killed off and with that happening the other forces retreating being overrun and killed off as well.

Now, now lets not go off topic and start a whole war about this.

Then don't start a post by quoting someone and then saying "Disregard it because (I think) they hate what I like".

And how many factions were there? Like we had almost every single Imperium faction there in both those crusades? So once again congratulations on making a point without supporting it,

As for your point of them being zealous madwomen what about the audio book red and black?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:Moving along..(before a moderator decides to shut this thread down).

Appended Question - Why not step this up a little further then?

An IG/Sisters combination may have certain interdepartamental issues to work out - but what about a situation where the Sisters are being led by a Living Saint? Specifically a Living Saint who also happens to the be patron of the Sector where the Guardsmen come from?

It would be like the equivalent of having Solar Macharius on the ground....

How would you represent that in the Imperial Guard Codex?

Necrosis wrote:

As for your point of them being zealous madwomen what about the audio book red and black?

I think i've earned my street credentials on this board in support of the SoB (funny that esp. since i'm primarily an Ork player). But...

I need to raise an objection to attempts to fully characterize the faction as either zealous madwomen or Amazonian warriors who care.

Cause GW already does contradictory things with their portrayals of factions in terms of Codices and what gets said about them in their BL novels.

And has often declined to settle the issue one way or the other. A perfect perennial example - The Tau. Are they insidious manipulators or totally naieve do gooders?

You decide ....cause GW sure as hell will not.

Necrosis wrote:That being said sisters are not allowed to take command of a guard regiment

Not so much "not allowed" as theyr'e just outside of the chain of command.

A Canoness can well have spent decades or centuries leading troops, just as the Colonel in charge of an IG regiment or a Space Marine commander has. What one has to look at is the size of the theater and what sort of fight there will be.

If there's a huge IG presence and the SoB just happen to swing by or have a small force stationed in the area there's no reason for a Canoness to even try taking command. She'll just ask where her troops would be best deployed in support - or "suggest" that they'll be allowed to secure local churches, shrines etc.

If it's a Crusade against heretics there might be Ecclesiarchy officials providing the leadership. These too should have enough brains to just give the broad orders, then let those with military expertise figure out how to do it. Here a Canoness could well be placed in overall military command by the church, provided any marines involved are fine with it. Still more likely that a high IG officer gets to run the big show, just because so much of the force will still be IG. The SoB are there to hit the targets they're suited for, not do the grunt work everywhere.

As for personality interfering one has to remember that Space Marines also have reputations for being both headstrong and proud - there's no guarantee they'll be any quicker to retreat than SoB forces.

Kanluwen wrote:The Sororitas are regarded as zealous individuals--with no real grasp of tactics.

By the fans, not so much by the populace.

Necrosis wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:Moving along..(before a moderator decides to shut this thread down).

Appended Question - Why not step this up a little further then?

An IG/Sisters combination may have certain interdepartamental issues to work out - but what about a situation where the Sisters are being led by a Living Saint? Specifically a Living Saint who also happens to the be patron of the Sector where the Guardsmen come from?

How would you represent that in the Imperial Guard Codex?

Unsure. Piggy-backing off the Sabbat World's example, this would definitely be a special situation (equivalent to a Crusade).

Ergo, one may have to generate an alternative set of rules. After all, its not everyday when a Saint shows up on your doorstep exhorting you to conquer in the name of the God-Emperor.

Also, Sabbat IIRC was not a part of the Sisters anyway, so that's not a good example.

A Living Saint, perhaps...

Melissia wrote:Also, Sabbat IIRC was not a part of the Sisters anyway, so that's not a good example.

A Living Saint, perhaps...

No she wasn't - just trying to build a bridge in the conversation.

Although speaking of bridges, i'm of the opinion a Saint would do the trick. just think about it logically for a second.

If you have a bunch of IG regiments who hold at least some nominal faith in the God-Emperor and are being led into battle by a Living Saint who much of the local religious institutions sing praises about......are you really going to grumble or say no?

I'd argue the same could be said of the Sisters if they were to encounter a non-SoB Saint.

Who tells a definitive servant of the God-Emperor "no"?

Do you think Yarric would make a good count as a living saint for the Imperial Guard Codex?

Just want to say this I just wanted to use sob miniatures instead of commissar/sergeant miniatures. I don't want there stats replacing the miniature there supposed to be. I guess fluff wise they could be there for extra inspiration to the guard. I kinda wants my IG to specliaze in fighting chaos in general. I hope I'm not going to special snowflake.

Necrosis wrote:Do you think Yarric would make a good count as a living saint for the Imperial Guard Codex?

Excellent commander. But not a Saint.

I actually think the only member of the IG (at least according to 5th edition Codex) ever granted that title was Lord Solar Macharius - and only recognized after the fact (although miraculous events did occur during his crusade into Pacificus).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bry648 wrote:Just want to say this I just wanted to use sob miniatures instead of commissar/sergeant miniatures. I don't want there stats replacing the miniature there supposed to be. I guess fluff wise they could be there for extra inspiration to the guard. I kinda wants my IG to specliaze in fighting chaos in general. I hope I'm not going to special snowflake.

Fighting Chaos? Hrmm.. that is...problematic.

Daemons and the things of Chaos aren't really well known to the average member of the IoM due to policy form the powers that be.


For your IG regiment to exist, it would have to be essentially an appendage of the Ordo Malleus.

Ie: You need an Inquisitor.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Do you think Yarric would make a good count as a living saint for the Imperial Guard Codex?

Excellent commander. But not a Saint.

I actually think the only member of the IG (at least according to 5th edition Codex) ever granted that title was Lord Solar Macharius - and only recognized after the fact (although miraculous events did occur during his crusade into Pacificus).

I think you misread what I said (or meant). I said count as, like when your playing the Imperial Guard Codex, you field your living saint use commissar yarrick rules.

Necrosis wrote:

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Do you think Yarric would make a good count as a living saint for the Imperial Guard Codex?

Excellent commander. But not a Saint.

I actually think the only member of the IG (at least according to 5th edition Codex) ever granted that title was Lord Solar Macharius - and only recognized after the fact (although miraculous events did occur during his crusade into Pacificus).

I think you misread what I said (or meant). I said count as, like when your playing the Imperial Guard Codex, you field your living saint use commissar yarrick rules.

OIC! Yes i did misread.

Hmmm.. Well Yarrick is a Super Special Snowflake - it could work. Might have to toss in a few Acts of Faith in though

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Necrosis wrote:

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Do you think Yarric would make a good count as a living saint for the Imperial Guard Codex?

Excellent commander. But not a Saint.

I actually think the only member of the IG (at least according to 5th edition Codex) ever granted that title was Lord Solar Macharius - and only recognized after the fact (although miraculous events did occur during his crusade into Pacificus).

I think you misread what I said (or meant). I said count as, like when your playing the Imperial Guard Codex, you field your living saint use commissar yarrick rules.

OIC! Yes i did misread.

Hmmm.. Well Yarrick is a Super Special Snowflake - it could work. Might have to toss in a few Acts of Faith in though

Currently Saint Celestine can't perform acts of faith on her own.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Do you think Yarric would make a good count as a living saint for the Imperial Guard Codex?

Excellent commander. But not a Saint.

I actually think the only member of the IG (at least according to 5th edition Codex) ever granted that title was Lord Solar Macharius - and only recognized after the fact (although miraculous events did occur during his crusade into Pacificus).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bry648 wrote:Just want to say this I just wanted to use sob miniatures instead of commissar/sergeant miniatures. I don't want there stats replacing the miniature there supposed to be. I guess fluff wise they could be there for extra inspiration to the guard. I kinda wants my IG to specliaze in fighting chaos in general. I hope I'm not going to special snowflake.

Fighting Chaos? Hrmm.. that is...problematic.

Daemons and the things of Chaos aren't really well known to the average member of the IoM due to policy form the powers that be.


For your IG regiment to exist, it would have to be essentially an appendage of the Ordo Malleus.

Ie: You need an Inquisitor.

I was thinking that to. But, it seems in recent fluff the Ig is aware of chaos. But the most simple explanation I can come up at the moment is have a inquisitor or ex sob inquisitor lead the army and requesition a group of SOB to help him or her out.

Consider it a suggestion - something i'd put up for if the ever get around to updating Witch Hunters.

Its mostly to bring it in line with recent portrayals of Living Saints in fiction and even in something like Dawn of War: Soulstorm.

Mind you, it runs against the grain of those insisting that in the 41st millenium the Grimdarkey Grimdarkness must require any sense of religiousity to be filtered in the utmost cynical sense.