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Da Kommizzar wrote:

mercer wrote:

Da Kommizzar wrote:

mercer wrote:Orks are probably as good as Tyranids. They are a ok army, but struggle with armour at range and much better at dealing with it up close and personal. If you keep that in mind, then you'll be ok.

9 rokkit-buggies for anyone? Follow this with PKs, Lootas, deffrollas, and rokkit-boys and you are set!

Buggies which need 5+ to hit and twin-linked?

I also said dealing with armour at range, so power klaws and deffrollas are to one side....

Key word there TWIN LINKED. It makes it so we become good shots. 1/3 chance on first throw, re-roll for another 1/3. We gain an instant Bs3 or 4 with that.

Yes I know, I am not blind. Still only 5+ to hit, not awesome. Still not a lot to deal with things at range.

Orks do not need to have ranged shooty to win. They don't even need range at all. Orks are an in your face Army, not a sit back and shoot Army. If you want some supporting rarnged firing Lootas can do the trick.

Dugg wrote:Orks do not need to have ranged shooty to win. They don't even need range at all. Orks are an in your face Army, not a sit back and shoot Army. If you want some supporting rarnged firing Lootas can do the trick.

its helpful though, popping transports before you assault can come in handy unless you are trying to box in transports so they have no place to deploy when wrecked/exmploded

I find it interesting that you guys are talking about gk being the tough match up to counter, as an observer I would imagine it would be certain BA builds that are really problematic. I don't see razorspam being a problem but a couple of 10 man assault squads with a priest seems like they would cut through most squads orks can field, especially if they are backed up by a couple of vindies. How do you guys deal with lots of 2 attack furious charge fnp marines?

Dugg wrote:Orks do not need to have ranged shooty to win. They don't even need range at all. Orks are an in your face Army, not a sit back and shoot Army. If you want some supporting rarnged firing Lootas can do the trick.

They need ranged support to pop open vehicles to get at the juicy contents inside. The only other method is close combat using boarding planks, and combat against vehicles is crap. So Orks do need ranged support.

BA isnt as hard as it seems.

Its just a matter of dealing with turn 1 and 2. Once you get to them, you tear them up.

I killed Mephiston with a 20 ork squad of shoota boyz the other day, and made it out with almost 10 boyz.

We have the tools to deal with any army aside from Hydra spam IG that goes first. I feel like this game is auto-lose, regardless of the mission / deployment (With BW Rush.

I agree with Dugg, that lootas are very optional. They rarely suppress any type of fire and get left behind quickly.

I am going to start testing Tankbustas against the current meta. I fee like they directly counter a lot of what is popular in the current meta.

Stormravens dropping DCA.
Razorspam

A lot of the current meta is drive up and dump dudes in your face. Tankbustas do well vs that.

You keep the TB in a BW and you can control glory hogs pretty well.

also, in games vs no vehicles - footdar, foot wolves, DOA, they are monsters

mercer wrote:

Dugg wrote:Orks do not need to have ranged shooty to win. They don't even need range at all. Orks are an in your face Army, not a sit back and shoot Army. If you want some supporting rarnged firing Lootas can do the trick.

They need ranged support to pop open vehicles to get at the juicy contents inside. The only other method is close combat using boarding planks, and combat against vehicles is crap. So Orks do need ranged support.

I like wrapping vehicles and popping them. My tournament Records is proof you don't need ranged to win. I don't run lootas in tournaments. I put TL rokkits on my Koptas and Rokkits in my boy squads, that with some Big Shootas is all the Range I have.

If you have a Power KLAW in a vehicle you ALWAYS get a boarding plank for that vehicle. Boarding Planks are a must have. I like driving next to a dread and planking it and it can't swing back. I can also dump the boys out of my battlewagon, leaving the PK BigMek inside, wrap a rhino and either wreck it with slugga choppas, which kills everyone inside, or swing the Nob from boy squad and plank the Bigmek as well. 8)


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@Tabletop Josh - getting back to the point of this thread. I think you should start with building up your boyz squads. You will always need them. After that I would go with 2 Battlewagons. After that, pick some units you think you would have fun playing. Orks are SO fun to play and I personally have at least 1 squad of every unit type.

Here's a list in order of buying/building I would suggest.

3x 19 boy squads plus 3x Nobz with Power Klaws and
Bosspole.

Warboss or Ghazkull

BigMek with Kustom Forcefield

2 Battlewagons

1-2 Trukks

5-8 Nobz + Pain boy, all equipped differently

15 Lootas and/or Burnas

1-3 Koptas

Then have fun and get crazy!!! Converting and building can be fun with Orks.

Psychologically, Wrapping a transport with 20+ boys makes them just take it off the table in their heads, so then they lose faith and end up wasting the unit inside by throwing it away. (If it doesn't get suffocated in the wreck)

I wrapped 2 rhinos full of purifiers and wrecked them both in my Waaagh! Turn in the past... And it was GLORIOUS!!!!!


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Come to think of it my record is 4 Full Space Wolf Rhinos, 2 wrecked and 2 Exploded, leaving only 8-9 out of 40 Infantry left alive.

For some reason the Purifier one felt better. Haha

Dugg wrote:

mercer wrote:

Dugg wrote:Orks do not need to have ranged shooty to win. They don't even need range at all. Orks are an in your face Army, not a sit back and shoot Army. If you want some supporting rarnged firing Lootas can do the trick.

They need ranged support to pop open vehicles to get at the juicy contents inside. The only other method is close combat using boarding planks, and combat against vehicles is crap. So Orks do need ranged support.

I like wrapping vehicles and popping them. My tournament Records is proof you don't need ranged to win. I don't run lootas in tournaments. I put TL rokkits on my Koptas and Rokkits in my boy squads, that with some Big Shootas is all the Range I have.

If you have a Power KLAW in a vehicle you ALWAYS get a boarding plank for that vehicle. Boarding Planks are a must have. I like driving next to a dread and planking it and it can't swing back. I can also dump the boys out of my battlewagon, leaving the PK BigMek inside, wrap a rhino and either wreck it with slugga choppas, which kills everyone inside, or swing the Nob from boy squad and plank the Bigmek as well. 8)

You mean the ranged rokkits you've got for anti tank .

Tournaments are cool and stuff, but it depends who you play against. Here in the UK I've beaten people on the HQ Rankings and seen where they come in tournaments too. Rankings HQ is just a pissing contest, I'm afriad.

Wrapping vehicles is cool and a valid tactic if you wreck vehicles. Not handy for exploding results, good bye Orks .

The major loophole ive seen in the orklist that not many people seem to notice is that nob squads have wounds for unit. Throw in mad dokgrosnik to give them feel no pain and HOOOOOOBOOOYYYYY you have a steamroller squad.
Also if in Apoc you can give mad dok grotsnik on top of a gargant squiggoth and the squiggoth gets feel no pain. Our 15k apoc game was won by an ork army because of this. Glad I was with him XD

Nurgle wrote:The major loophole ive seen in the orklist that not many people seem to notice is that nob squads have wounds for unit. Throw in mad dokgrosnik to give them feel no pain and HOOOOOOBOOOYYYYY you have a steamroller squad.

You don't need Grotsnik in a unit of nobs to get FnP, because you can have a painboy in the unit, and the nobs aren't subject to Rage that way. Not that this stops them from being shot by krak missiles. A unit of 'ard boys is a good place to stick Grotsnik though.

Also if in Apoc you can give mad dok grotsnik on top of a gargant squiggoth and the squiggoth gets feel no pain. Our 15k apoc game was won by an ork army because of this. Glad I was with him XD

Well, it's apoc and so you can really do whatever you want, but technically, that's not legal and doesn't work. Grotsnik gives FnP to the unit he has joined, but he cannot join a squiggoth because ICs may not join models that are always lone models (rulebook, page 48). Riding in the squiggoth doesn't convey the bonus.

Also, in apoc, you don't need Grotsnik, you can simply take an IC painboy from the IA Raid on Kastorel-Novem book and join him to any squad, and again avoid the Rage issues that Grotsnik comes with.

@Mercer -

Yep!!! My 4-5 24" Rokkits are a power house of ranged destruction!! Haha

RankingsHQ can be hit or miss, unless the person is a consistent top placing finisher in the larger Tournaments, say with 5+ rounds and 60+ players. With Swiss pairing you will be playing vs other top player round 3 and on if you are winning.

Beating someone in a pickup game that is on RankingsHQ, anyone that has played in a big tournament has had their name put on RHQ, means nothing towards how good of a Tournament player you may or may not be.

I tell you what, Challenge the top 4-5 RankingsHQ players in the UK, play all of them, not changing your list, and not knowing what they will bring and when you beat all of them I will concede to your boast of beating RankingsHQ players.

I do understand there are players out there that are top players that do not do the whole Tournament scene. I'm actually a bit burned out of it myself. I just know many of the top ranked players earned their rank and deserve to have some recognition.

I understand wrecks are better but I will wrap and explode vehicles all day long with my Orks if I can. I will on average lose 2 Boyz but 7 will always die inside a Rhino sized vehicle due to its footprint. And it's a big bonus if they fail their Pin or even their Break test and die due to being trapped.


@ Nurgle

OH YEAH!!! Mad Dok is a blast! Don't forget he can give those Mega Nobz a 5+ Inv Save too. So they would be 2wounds 2+/5+ with Feel No Pain and Fearless. Fun Stuff!

What on earth would make people believe Orks aren't competitive? They rock against the biggest majority of armies. The only army that I don't think is competitive anymore is actually Sisters. I play Tau and there isn't anything wrong with Tau other than the fact that almost everything in their army costs way too much but then again it is about 6 years old too. Anyway....Orks rock!

Dugg wrote:@Mercer -

Yep!!! My 4-5 24" Rokkits are a power house of ranged destruction!! Haha

RankingsHQ can be hit or miss, unless the person is a consistent top placing finisher in the larger Tournaments, say with 5+ rounds and 60+ players. With Swiss pairing you will be playing vs other top player round 3 and on if you are winning.

Beating someone in a pickup game that is on RankingsHQ, anyone that has played in a big tournament has had their name put on RHQ, means nothing towards how good of a Tournament player you may or may not be.

I tell you what, Challenge the top 4-5 RankingsHQ players in the UK, play all of them, not changing your list, and not knowing what they will bring and when you beat all of them I will concede to your boast of beating RankingsHQ players.

I do understand there are players out there that are top players that do not do the whole Tournament scene. I'm actually a bit burned out of it myself. I just know many of the top ranked players earned their rank and deserve to have some recognition.

I understand wrecks are better but I will wrap and explode vehicles all day long with my Orks if I can. I will on average lose 2 Boyz but 7 will always die inside a Rhino sized vehicle due to its footprint. And it's a big bonus if they fail their Pin or even their Break test and die due to being trapped.

well my point about the ranged fire was that you have some, even a teeny tiny little bit, when you said you do not need any

I love it when you say about my boasting, when you say you're on HQ Rankings and check your tournament record. Though HQ Rankings is a whole other conversation...btw this is all in jest, I hope you're not taking it as the normal mean aggressive approach you see

Hmm, you won't lose 7 Space Marines in a Rhino. You don't even wound 7 on average for a start, you will wound 3 and will lose 1. Orks would do worse from a exploding vehicle, if there's 20 Orks then you would lose on average 6 Orks, maybe 5 if you put a wound on the Nob. Of course the vehicle explosion radius has a factor here. Though yeah, fail pinning test is great, though not enough to force morale test if there's a full squad of 10 Marines in there, though it's cool if it did happen in the right situation.

Anyway, I've made my point that you need ranged support. Orks are better fighting infantry, not vehicles. What's better to attack? A vehicle which has moved and you need 4+ or 6+ to hit or a vehicle which hasn't moved because it's stunned or immobilised thanks to ranged fire power? Or even better, smash some skulls in combat because you've blown the tank into a crater . I know what I would rather do If you thought you didn't need ranged support, then you wouldn't take any form of rokkits no matter how little or less

@mercer - haha We are talking about little toy soldiers. All is good

The Rokkits almost never get to fire. They are more of a way to make my opponent worry about them then actually cause damage.

Yes, we will leave the RankingsHQ for another debate or just let it go. I'm sorry if what i said came off the wrong way. I'm pretty new to the forum scene. For all I know you do play the best of best in the UK and stomp them repeatedly.

Back to the Orky fun.

Actually, if the Rhino has 10 Marines in it and I wrap it with 20 boyz and it explodes, 7 Marines will die everytime, no rolls required. You see, when a vehicle explodes they have to be placed inside the footprint of the Rhino which is just less than 3 inches by 4.75 inches, and when placing the Marines you have to stay 1 inche away from my Orks or remove it from the game, so technically if I get a perfect wrap you only get 2 Marines in, but usually I lean towards minor movement and charge errors and give my opponent 3. So that's 7 auto dead Marines, a Pin Check and Morale Check required.

I have a diogram (pic) somewhere showing this with the Rhino footprint and the 25mm (1mm less than 1") bases around the footprint and inside it to represent the Orks and Marines. I'll try to blog this write up with the diograms if anyone is interested?

As for my Orks, the explosion wounds on a 5+ on my Orks and we will say the explosion goes 6 inches and hits all 20. This is an average of 6.6 wounds. My Orks will get a 5+ cover save from my Big Mek with Custom Forcefield, which is always near by his boyz. You do get Cover Saves from explosions. This on average give me 2.17 unsaved wounds. I take 1 on a boy and 1 on my Nob.

When it comes to Orks they are better at swinging Choopas, they dont care what they are swing at, and I'm sure all Ork players reading this would rather wrap and wreck a Rhino full of Purifiers, killing them all, instead of Cracking it with a squad of Lottas and charge the 10 Purifiers inside.

As for the odds of Wrecking a Rhino with 19boyz (slugga choppa) on a 4+ are very good, and on 6+ I can at least stun it if not get it to wreck/explode with the help of my Nob. If I stun it and it doesn't have Fortitude I will get to swing with my Nob again on my opponents Assault, auto hitting with my Nob only, boyz base strength of 3 won't do anything. If it explodes on his turn guess who is getting assaulted during my turn.

Ah, yes, I see where you're coming from now. I thought you meant from blast destruction, I totally forgot about models within 1", do it myself when possible!

If you've got a KFF then furry muff

And Purifiers, oh yes, or dakka death though that's Purifiers, in normal circumstances punching people in the face is ace

Yes, you're right about the stun thing, that's the best if you do get that in your assault phase and then sustained assault.

Dugg wrote:Back to the Orky fun.

Actually, if the Rhino has 10 Marines in it and I wrap it with 20 boyz and it explodes, 7 Marines will die everytime, no rolls required. You see, when a vehicle explodes they have to be placed inside the footprint of the Rhino which is just less than 3 inches by 4.75 inches, and when placing the Marines you have to stay 1 inche away from my Orks or remove it from the game, so technically if I get a perfect wrap you only get 2 Marines in, but usually I lean towards minor movement and charge errors and give my opponent 3. So that's 7 auto dead Marines, a Pin Check and Morale Check required.

As for the odds of Wrecking a Rhino with 19boyz (slugga choppa) on a 4+ are very good, and on 6+ I can at least stun it if not get it to wreck/explode with the help of my Nob. If I stun it and it doesn't have Fortitude I will get to swing with my Nob again on my opponents Assault, auto hitting with my Nob only, boyz base strength of 3 won't do anything. If it explodes on his turn guess who is getting assaulted during my turn.

Interesting point about the wrap and wreck thing. But I thought vehicles could not get locked in Assault, and therefore you don't get to assault them during their assault phase even if you're in base contact.

They are not locked so only if your Orks and the vehicle do not move can you swing in their turn. You also don't pile-in vs vehicles. Walkers you are lock and do pile ins as you do with infantry.

@ Da Kommizzar - Orks hit 50% of the time. Either they hit or they don't 50/50


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@ Mercer - Purifiers get Burnas. Nothing like 11 burnas on a crater full of Purifiers after you've Deffrollard their Rhino.

Correction: We hit 33% of the time. BS3 hits 50%. Unless you are talking about twin-linked, but then I believe the odds are still great, if not better.

@Da Kommizzar- And I thought you were an Ork player?

Ork math be simple, ethier you be doin sumtin or ye dont. Dat be'in 50/50.

Me Boyz be needing a 6" charge outa 2D6.... 50/50 chance. We be charging thru dangerous terrain, we might be died on a 1 on a D6....50/50. Either we be makin it or not. haha

Heh, I'm a Blood Axes player, are we're sneaky and calculating.

TL weapons at BS2 is a 55.6% chance of hitting. Approximately.

Dugg, Soldado, I'm in the IE.....would love to get together sometime for a WAAAGH!!!

Dugg wrote:Ork math be simple, ethier you be doin sumtin or ye dont. Dat be'in 50/50.

Her her her, even dat is too complikatud for an ork! All we noz iz 1...2...3....4...5...........lotz!

Im game.

Ill PM you to see if we can set something up!!

Duggs math is 100% correct as well...

Orks math is dah best!

My Orks will get a 5+ cover save from my Big Mek with Custom Forcefield, which is always near by his boyz.

For some reason the guys at the store do 4+ cover for KFF?

@apocalypse022 - 4+ for vehicles and 5+ for Troops


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You guys going to SoCal Slaughter in Space 4 later this month there in LA?

I wish I was going but no.
I have just ran orks as a kan wall so far but I have been wanting to go mech for a while.

How about this list?

1997 Pts -

Ghazghkull Thraka

Big Mek
Power Klaw
KFF

Battlewagon x2
Deff Rolla
Armour Plates
Stikkbom Chucka
Red Paint Job
Grot Riggers
Big Shoota

17 Ork Boyz x2 //these go with the battlewagons and big mek and Gaz
Nob
Eavy Armour
Bosspole
Power Klaw

9 Ork Boyz x 2
Nob
Eavy Armour
Bosspole
Trukk
Rokkit

5 Nob Bikers
Big Choppa x1
Power Klaw x2
Waaagh! Banner
Cybork Bodies
Painboy

Deffkoptas x2
Buzzsaw
rockit x2

Killa Kan x3
kustom mega blastas each

10 Lootas

I personally am struggling with my Orks. I'm running a Kan wall and have found that it is extremely difficult to win with this type of list. On paper the idea seems fantastic, but in action it struggles. A rule change that might help would be the ability to take Kans as Troops with a Big Mek instead of just the Deff Dread.

Eitherway, I've done decently well against vanilla marines, eldar, and sisters. That being said I've been completely taken apart by Guard and most recently Nid armies. The Guard one was the worst. Against the Nid's I stood a real chance and dropped several of their MC's, but once they got to me the Kans couldn't standup to the 2D6+STR hits that they were getting pounded with.

I've slowly started building a more mobile force to alternate between my Kan Wall and it looks something like this....

3 Wagons - Rollas, Big Shoota, Plates, Riggers
Looted Wagon - Boom Gun
5 Koptas with TL Rockets
6 Buggies with TL Rockets
15 Lootas
20 Boys + Nob w/ klaw and pole
19 Boys + Nob w/ klaw and pole
Mega Nobs with Kombi Skorchas
Big Mek with KKF
Warboss, Mega Armour, Squig, Kombi Scorcha, Pole

I've used this list once against a BA player and tabled him. It was a lot of fun, but even with this I'm not sure how I would fare against IG gunline as an example. The mobile melta platforms that Valks become is tough to handle.

Are Orks competitive? You bet. Is it challenging to find the right mix of units and resolve to play them correct? You bet again. Winning is not automatic reguardless of the army.

not got the greatest knowledge when it comes to orks but looking at the codex what would be wrong with a mega nobz and ard boyz prophet of the war green sea of death???