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The Phobos/Godhammer still have the Assault Ramp, they don't have the assault launchers.

I can see taking a 5man Assault Termie Squad with the HQ stuffed in, just for the hilarity of a Land Raider not giving a Kill Point.

You could also unload the Assault Termies at the start of the game and put pedro in with Sternguard, if you had the points, so you get a score raider to literally sit on top of an objective.

Crazyterran wrote:The Phobos/Godhammer still have the Assault Ramp, they don't have the assault launchers.

Thats a good point. Since your termies are going at I1 anyway, who cares if they have the assault launchers or not.

Crazyterran wrote:The Phobos/Godhammer still have the Assault Ramp, they don't have the assault launchers.

I can see taking a 5man Assault Termie Squad with the HQ stuffed in, just for the hilarity of a Land Raider not giving a Kill Point.

You could also unload the Assault Termies at the start of the game and put pedro in with Sternguard, if you had the points, so you get a score raider to literally sit on top of an objective.

Well that's the thing with it. As I see it, it's counterproductive to use it for assault. That exposes it to a wider range of enemy fire that, with it's 48" range, you don't have to get anywhere near. You can fill it with a host of other useful units, as said before, that makes it even more effective in that role. Sitting on objectives, and shooting things to bits.

My main problem with the Godhammer/Phobos/whatever is the fact it's so huge. Unless you angle it just so, you are only going to get to fire one lascannon if it's advancing. Like, if I'm driving a Crusader straight in, I'm not worried about firing off that extra Hurricane Bolter. The TLAC + the other Hurricane bolter is fine.

Of course, the last time I used a Phobos was ages ago, so, I have no idea anymore. I know with my Hurricane bolters, i Have a harder time getting both of them angled on a enemy squad.

Crazyterran wrote:My main problem with the Godhammer/Phobos/whatever is the fact it's so huge. Unless you angle it just so, you are only going to get to fire one lascannon if it's advancing. Like, if I'm driving a Crusader straight in, I'm not worried about firing off that extra Hurricane Bolter. The TLAC + the other Hurricane bolter is fine.

Of course, the last time I used a Phobos was ages ago, so, I have no idea anymore. I know with my Hurricane bolters, i Have a harder time getting both of them angled on a enemy squad.

I can imagine how that'd be a problem, but, at least the way I'd play them, I wouldn't be moving them straight towards my opponent anyways. Much more lateral movement, moving the cargo where they're needed. You pick a mid-field objective, park on it, and drop off. Once your marines disembark, that middle lane between the sponsons is going to be much less of an issue.

I've read all of this somewhere before

And here it is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Tactica_:_LAND_RAIDER!

Why would he take two 5man scout squads, a heavy bolter on his troops, and a whole bunch of other stuff?

It doesn't make senseeee

(refering to the link above)

Ran wrote:I've read all of this somewhere before

And here it is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Tactica_:_LAND_RAIDER!

While all that makes sense, I suppose I'm taking it a step further, so to speak. Why limit yourself to just five tactical marines? The same strategy can be employed with Pedro Kantor and Sternguard Veterans or standard Terminators. They are more effective than Tactical Marines, and with Pedro, they score just the same.

Though I do understand where he's coming from with the tactical marines, and that's terms of expense. Do you wanna pay 200+ more points for troops that are more likely to hold that objective if it's seriously contested, or do you want to sink more points in elsewhere, to take more objectives in different places?

Personally, I've seen tons of games with eight or ten objectives on the table come down to 2-1. When you make your list, you think of branching out and taking multiple things. In reality, when stuff starts dying, you stretch yourself too thin, and end up with one, maybe two, anyways. That one objective that you paid an extra 200 points to hold on tight to can mean the difference between a loss and a tie, or a loss and a win, even. To me, that speaks. YMMV.

lance fire owns land raiders.

ive used them myself and fought against them, and they generally get shot down by lances, or meltad into slag.

however they are a decent termie transport. the issue: a standard land raider cant hold a 5 man termie squad + character, and when moving 12, you get 1 gun. vrs the crusader that can fire its defensive bolters, plus its assault cannon. and carry/unload termies and character. add a multimelta for tank sniping. plus, if all you want is the twin linked laz, razor backs to the job, as does predators. and they are cheaper.

Crazyterran wrote:My main problem with the Godhammer/Phobos/whatever is the fact it's so huge. Unless you angle it just so, you are only going to get to fire one lascannon if it's advancing. Like, if I'm driving a Crusader straight in, I'm not worried about firing off that extra Hurricane Bolter. The TLAC + the other Hurricane bolter is fine..

Just make sure your only moving 6", as you cant move 12" and fire defensive weapons unless your vehicles is fast.

DarthSpader wrote:lance fire owns land raiders.

ive used them myself and fought against them, and they generally get shot down by lances, or meltad into slag.

however they are a decent termie transport. the issue: a standard land raider cant hold a 5 man termie squad + character, and when moving 12, you get 1 gun. vrs the crusader that can fire its defensive bolters, plus its assault cannon. and carry/unload termies and character. add a multimelta for tank sniping. plus, if all you want is the twin linked laz, razor backs to the job, as does predators. and they are cheaper.

While that is true, lances and melta's are, and probably always will be, effective against Land Raiders, it's mostly about how you protect it, and how you move it. If you have a land raider or two, and say, a few predators/dreads, while the lances will take out the Raider, it's still going to occupy all of your opponent's lances for at least a turn, maybe more, and that';s if he's specifically ready for heavy mech; a lance or two here and there is not going to reliably take it out, turn one or two, before it can wreak serious havoc. IIRC, and if the link above is to be trusted, the Lascannons have better range, as well; stay in the back and blast them early, then move up in the later turns and drop off your cargo to claim that objective.

As for Meltas, protecting it is very important. Husband your Land Raider. As you said, its an offensive beast, it doesn't get the defensive weapon, and you can't rush it up immediately like you would a Crusader or Redeemer, because, as you said, it'll get vaped by cheap, infantry-carried melta. That's when you let them come to you. Again, stay back, let your other units screen out the nastiness of Attack Bikes, Speeders, and what have you, and then make your move in the later turns when your opponent is starting to get stretched thin.

Granted, none of those are sure-fire counters. Drop-podding and deep-strike, though less consistent than bikes/speeders or footslogging, can be made to work, and does. Even that one lance shot is going to hit and pen every so often. That's why I like this build. It's balanced. You know what I call something that doesn't have a weakness? Cheddar cheese.

Razorbacks and Predators are nice, but the Land Raider is a very different beast. It's not just a vehicle you slap in there and play like an MBT, though it fills that role well. The reason it costs so much is because of its capabilities in getting troops on an objective, and sitting there like a boulder in the middle of a river, and HOLDING that objective.

Again, YMMV.

labmouse42 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:My main problem with the Godhammer/Phobos/whatever is the fact it's so huge. Unless you angle it just so, you are only going to get to fire one lascannon if it's advancing. Like, if I'm driving a Crusader straight in, I'm not worried about firing off that extra Hurricane Bolter. The TLAC + the other Hurricane bolter is fine..

Just make sure your only moving 6", as you cant move 12" and fire defensive weapons unless your vehicles is fast.

I know you can't fire the bolters when you move 12. First job for that Crusader is to drop off the Hammernators, second is to cause some havoc after the termies are smacking down some demon or what have you. (preferably with a Librarian, to make the sucker reroll those successful invuln saves.)

Thats the way to do it

One day I'm going to play as a Blood Angel, and make a Land Raider ram something with 18" movement.

Hitting something with a S10 hit will be funny as heck.

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Ran wrote:I've read all of this somewhere before

And here it is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Tactica_:_LAND_RAIDER!

While all that makes sense, I suppose I'm taking it a step further, so to speak. Why limit yourself to just five tactical marines? The same strategy can be employed with Pedro Kantor and Sternguard Veterans or standard Terminators. They are more effective than Tactical Marines, and with Pedro, they score just the same.

Though I do understand where he's coming from with the tactical marines, and that's terms of expense. Do you wanna pay 200+ more points for troops that are more likely to hold that objective if it's seriously contested, or do you want to sink more points in elsewhere, to take more objectives in different places?

Personally, I've seen tons of games with eight or ten objectives on the table come down to 2-1. When you make your list, you think of branching out and taking multiple things. In reality, when stuff starts dying, you stretch yourself too thin, and end up with one, maybe two, anyways. That one objective that you paid an extra 200 points to hold on tight to can mean the difference between a loss and a tie, or a loss and a win, even. To me, that speaks. YMMV.

Pedro Sternguard, as Scoring, that's good. I don't like the non Scoring options, increasingly so as they become more expensive. That said I don't think a 24" radius is very impressive to begin with for a campy squad, might as well keep it as cheap as possible.

EDIT: oh and LRs don't get Lucifer Engines. No dice

Why do you ruin everything for me, guy i just met on the internet?

Everything! :(

Ran wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Ran wrote:I've read all of this somewhere before

And here it is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Tactica_:_LAND_RAIDER!

While all that makes sense, I suppose I'm taking it a step further, so to speak. Why limit yourself to just five tactical marines? The same strategy can be employed with Pedro Kantor and Sternguard Veterans or standard Terminators. They are more effective than Tactical Marines, and with Pedro, they score just the same.

Though I do understand where he's coming from with the tactical marines, and that's terms of expense. Do you wanna pay 200+ more points for troops that are more likely to hold that objective if it's seriously contested, or do you want to sink more points in elsewhere, to take more objectives in different places?

Personally, I've seen tons of games with eight or ten objectives on the table come down to 2-1. When you make your list, you think of branching out and taking multiple things. In reality, when stuff starts dying, you stretch yourself too thin, and end up with one, maybe two, anyways. That one objective that you paid an extra 200 points to hold on tight to can mean the difference between a loss and a tie, or a loss and a win, even. To me, that speaks. YMMV.

Pedro Sternguard, as Scoring, that's good. I don't like the non Scoring options, increasingly so as they become more expensive. That said I don't think a 24" radius is very impressive to begin with for a campy squad, might as well keep it as cheap as possible.

EDIT: oh and LRs don't get Lucifer Engines. No dice

I find that the whole EVERY-LAST-POINT-MUST-ABSOLUTELY-EARN-ITSELF-BACK mentality is where Purifier-spam, Psyfleman Spam, Longfang Spam, Razorspam, any other kinda cheese or spam you could think of, comes from. People get so afraid of having their expensive units whiff their rolls for a game and tarnish their record, they feel the ABSOLUTE NEED to squeeze EVERY LAST bit of advantage possible out of everything. I guess you could blame the game for allowing that kinda shenanigans, but I'm not the kind of person to do that. Okay, time to step off my .

I definitely understand that mentality. It's a WHOLE lot of points. I'm pretty sure the LR is 250. Then Pedro is 175, and the Sternguards or terminators are both 200+, and boom. You've got more than 600 points on one unit. That's big. To a lot of guys, that's unacceptable, and I'm cool with that. Definitely not trying to make Land Raiders and Sternguards the new thing in the meta, though lord knows Codex Marines need a little ego boost.

As for me, I like it. I think it's a quirky thing in 40k. I personally love looking at the models, and I love seeing the expressions on peoples faces when they see three of the bastards staring down the table at them, before they even think of whether they'll actually be able to take them out.

For me, that's cool. YMMV.

Crazyterran wrote:One day I'm going to play as a Blood Angel, and make a Land Raider ram something with 18" movement.

Hitting something with a S10 hit will be funny as heck.

BA LRs aren't fast unless they're in an Apoc formation.

TermiesInARaider- the list on the other page is I think I good use of the LR.
It's a shooty list, the LR adds to that, but also adds the counter attack element via the assault terminators. I can see that LR against some opponents sitting in the gunline turns 1-2 and moving out in turn 3 to the biggest threat approaching the line. I think that is a good use of a godhammer and the list supports it well.

Very nice list btw AresX8 I can imagine that its quite fun to use. But...did you need to put all the special rules etc in? and things like the terms... couldnt you just put "5 TH/SS terminators" instead of the little list of identical terminators

Indeed Jihallah, that's how I designed the list to function.

All of the extra stuff is generated by BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net/). I stopped writing lists manually when I discovered that program.

+1 for that list. Smart stuff.

Personally, I can't stand lists written out like that. They look like they're purposely obfuscating. Seeing a huge wall of words, a vast majority of which are irrelevant, and then having to spend time sifting through everything just to find the pertinent information is more than a little annoying. After all,

AresX8 wrote:
* Terminator Assault Squad (460pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
* Land Raider
(Assault Vehicle, Power of the Machine Spirit)
Multi-Melta
* Terminator
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator Sergeant
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield

Could be written "5x THSS terminators, land raider with multimelta"

and

AresX8 wrote:
* Tactical Squad (215pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, Rhino (Repair, Tank), 9x Space Marine
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer

Could be written "10x tac squad, ML, flamer, combi-flamer, rhino"

Yes, I already know that space marines have ATSKNF and combat tactics, and that the squad comes with a sergeant, and that a rhino has self repair, etc. etc.

If you're using a program like this rather than writing it out quickly by hand, it comes across as lazy and annoying, rather than clear and comprehensive...

The rarely played melta devestators taking mid field might be fun. Last time I was thinking about land raiders, I was thinking about how you didn't want to be particularly moving quickly, so the unit will want to be one you are holding for protection and inevitability or something for mid field, and it seemed like a real shame the sisters of battle lack such a transport.