Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

sidcom wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

Does Hextor Rex have a model? I know he beat An'ggrath in the fluff (with the help of a full company of Grey Knights...) is that what you're referencing?

Yes, he has forgeworld model, he banished Angrath in duel at gates of Vraks fortress (i think all GKs around were dead at that time), in 40k, he has set of special rules that actually make it possible for him to kill Angrath, IIRC they go on same initiative, he has rerolls, wounds on 4+ and every wound he deals takes D3 wounds from Angrath.. it is theoretically possible that he beats Angrath, but he needs to be really really lucky (inquisitional henchmen that takes wounds for him help him a lot, but that would not be 1vs1)

sidcom wrote:
http://s15.postimage.org/s58my97bv/angron.jpg

why is he pouting

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sidcom wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:I once made stats for Dorn as a shoot-then-assault unit, I had his stats at:

WS9/BS10/S6/T6/W5/I7/A5/Ld10/Sv2+/4++

Way too high. Primarchs and the GEOM are not infallible, they are never shown being as fast as I7, or as skilled as WS 9 and BS 10. Remember Sanguinus, one of the strongest primarchs got his legs broken by a blood thirster in round one of their fight (granted he killed the blood thirster in Terra, but he still lost once). At their best they should be maybe equal to a greater daemon with the possible exceptions of the Daemon Primarchs. Their main powers should be in boosting your army, they are super human generals after all.

That Bloodthirster was Ka´Bandha, champion of Khrone and basically 30k version of Angrath the Unbound, who alone is a 8 wound T8 monstosity with gazzilions of attacks, there is probably no single model in 40k with exception of other gargantuan creatures (and maybe Hector Rex, if he is really lucky) that can beat him in 1vs1 duel, fact that Sangi was eventually able to kill him actually shows pretty impresive power level of primarchs.

This. Even other gargantuan creatures can't beat him in CC, you really need titans/vortex weapons/ Broadsides spam (still wounding on 2+!!!) The only Gargantuan creature close to as strong is Tzeentch's daemon lord, and he is not meant for CC the way An'ggrath is, so would get beaten.

Anyone with a Daemonbane weapon that could wound him could theoretically beat him 1v1. You just need to wound him and have him fail his Leadership test (unless I'm missing something and all Gargantuan Creatures are Fearless).

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sidcom wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:I once made stats for Dorn as a shoot-then-assault unit, I had his stats at:

WS9/BS10/S6/T6/W5/I7/A5/Ld10/Sv2+/4++

Way too high. Primarchs and the GEOM are not infallible, they are never shown being as fast as I7, or as skilled as WS 9 and BS 10. Remember Sanguinus, one of the strongest primarchs got his legs broken by a blood thirster in round one of their fight (granted he killed the blood thirster in Terra, but he still lost once). At their best they should be maybe equal to a greater daemon with the possible exceptions of the Daemon Primarchs. Their main powers should be in boosting your army, they are super human generals after all.

That Bloodthirster was Ka´Bandha, champion of Khrone and basically 30k version of Angrath the Unbound, who alone is a 8 wound T8 monstosity with gazzilions of attacks, there is probably no single model in 40k with exception of other gargantuan creatures (and maybe Hector Rex, if he is really lucky) that can beat him in 1vs1 duel, fact that Sangi was eventually able to kill him actually shows pretty impresive power level of primarchs.

This. Even other gargantuan creatures can't beat him in CC, you really need titans/vortex weapons/ Broadsides spam (still wounding on 2+!!!) The only Gargantuan creature close to as strong is Tzeentch's daemon lord, and he is not meant for CC the way An'ggrath is, so would get beaten.

Anyone with a Daemonbane weapon that could wound him could theoretically beat him 1v1. You just need to wound him and have him fail his Leadership test (unless I'm missing something and all Gargantuan Creatures are Fearless).

Of course he's fearless...

And I just saw the thing for Hector Rex, and I have to say it is hugely unlikely he would kill An'ggrath, plus his menials have all equipment that makes him so good against daemons, and they take wounds first.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sidcom wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:I once made stats for Dorn as a shoot-then-assault unit, I had his stats at:

WS9/BS10/S6/T6/W5/I7/A5/Ld10/Sv2+/4++

Way too high. Primarchs and the GEOM are not infallible, they are never shown being as fast as I7, or as skilled as WS 9 and BS 10. Remember Sanguinus, one of the strongest primarchs got his legs broken by a blood thirster in round one of their fight (granted he killed the blood thirster in Terra, but he still lost once). At their best they should be maybe equal to a greater daemon with the possible exceptions of the Daemon Primarchs. Their main powers should be in boosting your army, they are super human generals after all.

That Bloodthirster was Ka´Bandha, champion of Khrone and basically 30k version of Angrath the Unbound, who alone is a 8 wound T8 monstosity with gazzilions of attacks, there is probably no single model in 40k with exception of other gargantuan creatures (and maybe Hector Rex, if he is really lucky) that can beat him in 1vs1 duel, fact that Sangi was eventually able to kill him actually shows pretty impresive power level of primarchs.

This. Even other gargantuan creatures can't beat him in CC, you really need titans/vortex weapons/ Broadsides spam (still wounding on 2+!!!) The only Gargantuan creature close to as strong is Tzeentch's daemon lord, and he is not meant for CC the way An'ggrath is, so would get beaten.

Anyone with a Daemonbane weapon that could wound him could theoretically beat him 1v1. You just need to wound him and have him fail his Leadership test (unless I'm missing something and all Gargantuan Creatures are Fearless).

Of course he's fearless...

His entry doesn't mention him being fearless, so if GCs aren't fearless by default, he isn't.

all gargantuan creatures are fearless, also, the cannot be killed by things that would remove them from game instantly, like force weapons, characteristic tests etc... it takes them D3 wounds instead

sidcom wrote:all gargantuan creatures are fearless, also, the cannot be killed by things that would remove them from game instantly, like force weapons, characteristic tests etc... it takes them D3 wounds instead

While I just realized that Fearless doesn't matter, the D3 wounds thingie would kick in. I thought it only applied to vortices, force weapons and similar, but it also applies to characteristic tests and similar effects.

That said, Draigo could probably take him with a bit of luck.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

sidcom wrote:all gargantuan creatures are fearless, also, the cannot be killed by things that would remove them from game instantly, like force weapons, characteristic tests etc... it takes them D3 wounds instead

While I just realized that Fearless doesn't matter, the D3 wounds thingie would kick in. I thought it only applied to vortices, force weapons and similar, but it also applies to characteristic tests and similar effects.

That said, Draigo could probably take him with a bit of luck.

Probs not. An'ggrath's sheer hitting power would mean that Kaldor dies in 1-2 rounds.

Draigo would also have huge problems with the other daemon lords, though less the Tzeentch one than the others.

Also, An'ggrath makes you suffer a perils of the warp on a 2+, so really any psyker model won't do well against him.

Not sure he cases perils, but he nullifies any psychic power directed on him or cast by model in base contact with him on 2+, so Draigo would have really hard time activating his force weapon.. Angrath is quite cheese proof

Draigo wouldn't activate his Force Weapon as he is an EW and a GC. GC abd SHV are immune to psychic powers that are not PSA with a Gun profile. But Draigo will still wound him on a 2+ and be Str 10 against him. Plus, if his Santified Flame works before combat he has a flamer that wounds on 2+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sidcom wrote:Angrath is quite cheese proof

Lukas the Trickster has a 2/3 chance of killing him.

Isnt Lucas the Trickster ability just another "killed outright or removed from game" type of attack that does not aplly to GC, or is it different somehow?

They both wound each other on 2+, Draigo has rerolls to hits but hits on 4, Angrath hits him on 3+, which is slightly worse, Draigo also has better invul in his favor.

On the other hand. Angrath has almost double of Draigos base attacks, which he can even tripple on his charge with up to 13 str 10 attacks, also double of his wounds, which would be deciding factor I think. My money would be on Angrath in this fight

can anyone tell me the rules for him so I can mathhammer?

And I do not recall that GCs had the D3 wounds thing. I remember it was just immune to ID. The D3 wounds only applies to Vortex Grenades.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

sidcom wrote:all gargantuan creatures are fearless, also, the cannot be killed by things that would remove them from game instantly, like force weapons, characteristic tests etc... it takes them D3 wounds instead

While I just realized that Fearless doesn't matter, the D3 wounds thingie would kick in. I thought it only applied to vortices, force weapons and similar, but it also applies to characteristic tests and similar effects.

That said, Draigo could probably take him with a bit of luck.

Probs not. An'ggrath's sheer hitting power would mean that Kaldor dies in 1-2 rounds.

Draigo would also have huge problems with the other daemon lords, though less the Tzeentch one than the others.

Also, An'ggrath makes you suffer a perils of the warp on a 2+, so really any psyker model won't do well against him.

Draigo wounds on a 2+ against all daemons due to getting S10, he has Preferred Enemy: Daemons and doesn't have to activate his weapon to cause the Ld test. He COULD conceivably do it, it's just not likely.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

sidcom wrote:all gargantuan creatures are fearless, also, the cannot be killed by things that would remove them from game instantly, like force weapons, characteristic tests etc... it takes them D3 wounds instead

While I just realized that Fearless doesn't matter, the D3 wounds thingie would kick in. I thought it only applied to vortices, force weapons and similar, but it also applies to characteristic tests and similar effects.

That said, Draigo could probably take him with a bit of luck.

Probs not. An'ggrath's sheer hitting power would mean that Kaldor dies in 1-2 rounds.

Draigo would also have huge problems with the other daemon lords, though less the Tzeentch one than the others.

Also, An'ggrath makes you suffer a perils of the warp on a 2+, so really any psyker model won't do well against him.

Draigo wounds on a 2+ against all daemons due to getting S10, he has Preferred Enemy: Daemons and doesn't have to activate his weapon to cause the Ld test. He COULD conceivably do it, it's just not likely.

S10 doesn't necessarily mean wounding one 2+ against ALL daemons, Scabaeiathrax (spelled it wrong, for sure) is T9.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshot wrote:can anyone tell me the rules for him so I can mathhammer?

And I do not recall that GCs had the D3 wounds thing. I remember it was just immune to ID. The D3 wounds only applies to Vortex Grenades.

Against the rules to do that. Just go to scribd and find the IA books.

So, does the Daemonbane works only when Angrath fails his LD, or is it negated be fearless? Event if he has to roll for it, LD10 is quite reliable.

Draigo could be able to kill him, but he would have to do it old fashioned way, wound after wound (or hope that Angrath rolls 1s on his psychic blocking) and he would have I guess max 2 turns of combat to do that, with so many attacks from Angrath, even 3+ invul isnt all powerful.. and Angrath would have to be very unlucky with his own invul..

sidcom wrote:So, does the Daemonbane works only when Angrath fails his LD, or is it negated be fearless? Event if he has to roll for it, LD10 is quite reliable.

Draigo could be able to kill him, but he would have to do it old fashioned way, wound after wound (or hope that Angrath rolls 1s on his psychic blocking) and he would have I guess max 2 turns of combat to do that, with so many attacks from Angrath, even 3+ invul isnt all powerful.. and Angrath would have to be very unlucky with his own invul..

Especially since An'ggrath averages about ten attacks on the charge, and has potentially infinite...

Again, psychic immunity doesn't matter, it's not a psychic power but a special rule. I fully agree that Angron has the upper hand, but Draigo COULD, with a bit of luck, solo him, and stand a much better chance than most other models to win a 1v1 melee punch out with An'ggrath.

EDIT: As of IA: A 2nd Ed., An'ggrath doesn't have anything giving him infinite attacks, he still has his +D6 on the charge though.

you mean daemonbane rule, right (as force weapons are specifically described in BRB as psychic attacks)? That would work on him, but you would still have to wait for Angrath to fail his LD10, which can happen, but really not very often..

anyways, I made test rolls of 10 fights of Angrath vs Draigo, score was 9/1 in Angrath favour (but once he ended with one wound and once with two), so yes, Draigo can kill him, but it is really not very high chance (and I had really terrible rolls for Angrah and excellent for Draigo-basically saved everything- on that one turn he died)

btw, I´m glad I´m not the first one to mismatch Angrath with Angron in this discussion )

I played a game yesterday with the specific intension of getting Draigo and An'grath into combat. An'grath got the charge and Draigo lost 3/4 wounds in one go. An'grath lost two wounds himself. Then Draigo brought him.down to one as well and Angrath rolled poor only causing 2 wounds with Draigo saving both. The Angrath rolls a 6 to hit with.all his attacks and in total causes 13 hits.and 7 wounds. Draigo rolled 4 4+s and 3 2s.

At the end of the game we test played Draigo vs him with Draigo on the charge, in which case Draogo won only because.of his extra round of combat by reducing Angrath to Int 1 with Psykouts.

Then we did no.one.charges and Draigo won due to Daemonbane.

True to the fluff then; Draigo COULD win, An'ggrath just has the advantage.