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Id like to see a dreadnought based army handle a zero-G insertion... or take a ship... or fight in a hive... or anywhere that they need to be able to move through without tearing great big holes in the wall, or move with more dexterity.

Randomonioum wrote:Id like to see a dreadnought based army handle a zero-G insertion... or take a ship... or fight in a hive... or anywhere that they need to be able to move through without tearing great big holes in the wall, or move with more dexterity.

Agreed.


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Kanluwen wrote:I'm not debating that part. I'm debating the practicality of full-scale Dreadnought usage. It's fine and dandy if you want to just wreck crap, but the Astartes aren't there to just go in and blow crap up. They are used as a precise application of force. You're not going to be doing that with a hulking death machine, now are you?

"The Adeptus Astartes is not a scalple; it is a hammer for smashing the enemies of the Emperor"

I think that was the codex or rulebook.

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:It seems like they would just make more dreadnoughts and make them so that the marines could get in and out of them.

Or at least make some other sort of battle suit that still has all the armor and weapons.

Some kind of tactical armour, but based on a Dred? Like a kind of Tactical Dreadnought armour? And they could arrange them into squads, but only the veterans of the chapter could use them. I love this idea!

Seriously though, as has been said, the Imperium and AdMech don't make a lot of progress in terms of technological advancement these days. If you read any fluff on reds it says that each one lost is a great loss blah blah blah. But yeah, they have a hard time replacing any and all Dreds they have now, never mind inventing a whole new chassis.

Being placed in one of the rare honors a space marine can have, but once again, not all space marines are placed in dreadnoughts. all space marines are heroes, but the ones that are put in dreadnoughts are LEGENDS. Dreadnoughts remain in a chapter for several centuries after their interment, and only wise and experienced warriors should be put in them, not only because of the preciousness of the dreadnoughts themselves, but because the chapter relies on their knowledge and experience to honor and protect their history.

Being in a dreadnought sucks.


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Veteran Sergeant wrote:Obviously you haven't put too much thought into this.

Which for this forum is shocking. Truly.

There is also a very nice description in "Know No Fear" which shows what it is like to be a dreadnought......doesn't sound fun.

Lost art or not, being in a coffin or simply a head in a jar without real sensation and being cut off even from your battle brothers for all time is not something one aspires to.

Because if a space marine gets his leg or arm blown off the chapters apothecary (or sanguinity preists.....the best) can fit a bionic arm or leg.


so there you go.

When I say I'd like to see it, I legitimately would, that would be awesome :')

Ok where to begin.

Firstly a marine is essentially for all physical purposes immortal...sort of and only in death does he then fall, so putting him in a dreadnaught before he has battle experience is counter productive.

Secondly, there are simply not enough Dreadnought chassis to go around so they are quite scarce and those that do have some treat them with utmost care and respect.
With this in mind only the bravest and most experienced marines who have been mortally wounded and the Chapter/Legion simply cant be without are put in them.
This enables the Chapter/Legion to retain the experience and fighting spirit of the individual aswell as memories.

All Chapters/Legions Dreadnoughts are revered and legendary warriors whom all look upto and also take on advise.

The Oldest Marine in the Imperium is a Dreadnought and is at least 10'000 years old, Bjorn 'The Fell Handed' of the Space Wolves Chapter.
Bjorn was a member of Leman Russ's Wolf Guard and was also involved in the sacking of Prospero during the Horus Heresy.
When Russ left, Bjorn became the first Great Wolf until he was Mortally wounded and put into a Dreadnought chassis.
He is woken once every hundred years to recount the 'Old Days' and also to test the Rune Priests (Chaplain's) knowlege.
Has also been woken during times of great need, an example being the Defence of the Fang, when in the absence of the then Great Wolf , Bjorn was woken to take command and even ended up standing upto Magnus himeself.

There are other accounts of famous Dreadnoughts but all are Legendary Hero's of their own Chapters and Legions (Pre Codex)

In a nutshell, being interned into a Dreadnought is a great Honour and only the worthy and most legendary marines end up in them, the only catch being that they must be alive to do so.

Thoughts

SonofTerra wrote:There is also a very nice description in "Know No Fear" which shows what it is like to be a dreadnought......doesn't sound fun.

I was just about to say this. It was most interesting though. Especially that they lose the ability to actually know no fear. In the end he just gets angry.

There's also a bit with dreadnoughts in the prospero burns book. Where the dreadnoughts talk to the main character saying they have dreamed the same dreams a thousand times and then basically telling him to shut up and stop moving.

Another good bit about dreadnoughts is in age of darkness iron within. A 'warrior poet' marine is has become so detached and sullen he refuses to speak to anyone and mainly ignores them.

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:It seems like they would just make more dreadnoughts and make them so that the marines could get in and out of them.

Or at least make some other sort of battle suit that still has all the armor and weapons.

the Imperium of man does not have the technical facility to make MORE high tech gear. Sure some of them are produced in small numbers but those numbers equal the number that are lost every year to horrendous battle damage or age beyond repair. Most of the people who know how to make dreadnaughts are busy maintaining the current fleet in working order.


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Flinty wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:It seems like they would just make more dreadnoughts and make them so that the marines could get in and out of them.

What's the point? You don't need an army of support vehicles to fight a war. You need soldiers to fight a war.

But what if you had an army where the infantry WAS all Dreadnoughts An army where assault cannon are the standard infantry rifle. Large infantry, admittedly, but infantry all the same. Why fight in a building when you can fight through it!

Sure they'd need to keep some scout types around for sneaking and retrieving items without tearing the building apart first, but otherwise it sounds like a solid plan!

The cost benefit just isnt there. The number of people and material that would be required to build, maintain and supply a force of all dreadnaughts could easily be used to supply a much larger group of regular marines or an even larger group of guardsman.

Same Industrial base supports : 10 dreadnaughts = 300 Marines and some razorbacks = 8000 guard.and a ton of tanks.

The Imperium of man uses the IG for most of it's missions defense and conquest because they are the most cost effective. Space marines are used primarily for taking the highest value targets as quickly as possible or holding small very important defenses as long as possible. In other areas they lead, directly and through example the regular mortals acting as a force amplifier.

Exergy wrote:The cost benefit just isnt there. The number of people and material that would be required to build, maintain and supply a force of all dreadnaughts could easily be used to supply a much larger group of regular marines or an even larger group of guardsman.

Pretty much this, really. You might as well ask why the US army doesn't use an all-exclusive force of tanks, A-10 ground support aircraft and F-16s to keep the enemy from taking out those. It costs a shedload... and you need actual boots on the ground to take something. Tanks can rush a location, aerial support can crush the resistance and fighters can keep enemy aircraft off - but there's no one to actually secure the place, go through everything for prisoners to interrogate and keep enemies from coming back once your fuel has run out.

Edit: that's also pretty much why Troops are so important in objective-based games. They represent the plentiful basic troops that do all the crappy work in securing a location. An elite team of crack commandos can storm a HQ, but they don't have the numbers or supplies to stay there and keep the pleace so you send in regular infantry. Same for tanks, aircraft, and other powerful stuff. They have limited supplies and need a huge support force to operate.