Things your battlewagon shouldn't leave home with...

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**sudojoe**

Apparently it's not. Use 8 battlewagons hahahahaha. There lies a problem with anti infantry with the lack of boyz. Deff Rollas, iirc are strength 10 but you can still roll your armor save. Which is weird considering that a giant steam roller is hitting your entire body and squishing you into the ground at high speed.

lolol now that you mention it, that is the counter! On the flip side, maybe go with 6 wagons and have like 2 squads of burnas to counter any infantry? They can still ride in the heavy slot ones.

**Sovspot**

Could work. You would have to keep the warbosses though. I would sacrifice one burna squad and use 20 boy squad though. That way you can use a KFF bigmek. I'm not entirely sure how many boyz squads we can fit in the list.

**Murrdox**

In addition to all the things people are talking about I'm always amazed that the Kannon isn't required equipment.

It's only 5 points more than a Big Shoota. If you're only taking ONE weapon because of Weapon Destroyed results, why not take the Kannon?

It's a 36" inch Rokkit in Krak mode (yeah not going to hit very often, but still.)
and in Frag mode it sounds as a Defensive Weapon, so you can fire it on the move! Better than a Big Shoota that is just going to sit there never being fired!

I bring a Kannon and a Big Shoota most times. If I move 6", I can fire the Big Shoota and the Kannon in Frag mode.

**hamlet**

good point about the kannon being defensive when used as a frag. hadn't thought of that.

**Redbeard**

I think most people avoid kannons because the general ideas are that

A) your battlewagon should be moving 12", and cannot even fire defensive weapons if it does so

and

B) if you're going to be moving at that speed and not firing your gun(s) the only purpose they serve is to avoid being immobilized on Weapon Destroyed results. So buy the cheapest ones you can.

**Sovspot**

When I buy another battlewagon I'm going to make it everything that battlewagons should not be! I'm going to give it an 'ard case, kill cannon, kannon, whatever and there is nothing you can do to stop me! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

**winterman**

Jidmah wrote:
winterman wrote:
sudojoe wrote:Do you guys ever consider taking the hard top upgrade?

Conventional wisdom is no, but there's an interesting school of thought regarding ard top that is worth considering and knowing about.

Consider, turn 1 its unlikely you will get to assault (can't waagh), so you will be hanging out around midfield waiting for turn 2 to come around. At midfield and with a 6" waagh from Ghaz your units are already threatening 21+" without the aide of the wagons movement. So the idea here is conserve KP a bit more readily, have more of a chance at deathrollering stuff turn 2 and still have a respectable shot at assaults turn 2 anyways.

Now that idea falls flat against faster armies, or in some deployment scenarios, so its not something I would do personally. But its worth mentioning I think.

I'd bet my hat you have either never done that, or played it wrong. You can only disembark from the two doors and out of the rear of the battlewagon model, which luckily is just enough space to get 20 boyz out there whithin 2" without braking coherency (cudos to the model builder for thinking of that), and you now have a donut of boyz around the back of your battlewagon, reduicing your charge range and on top of that, forcing one half to conga-line around the battlewagon to not break coherency. Of course, you could face your rear towards the enemy first turn, but that kind of doesn't increase survivability.

'ard case is nothing but a downgrade on a battlewagon.

I have never done that, you are right -- I even said as much

And I agree door placement is an issue that lowers the threat range significantly.

But a multiple GT winner has, at wargames con last year and he even has a batrep on BoLS playing Darkwynn for funsies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2_r7U4fu2Y
I lurk the webs and found his take on the list to be interesting. Tried to convery what I recalled above. The thing is, with AV14 and S8 so prevailant, getting rid of that -1 to the chart is pretty significant. Whether you can make your army work without the open topped is another matter but people do it.

Dakka used to be a place to discuss ideas but I guess its become more and more group think then I imagined.

**sudojoe**

Sovspot wrote:Could work. You would have to keep the warbosses though. I would sacrifice one burna squad and use 20 boy squad though. That way you can use a KFF bigmek. I'm not entirely sure how many boyz squads we can fit in the list.

well with a mek and KFF and 1 squad of burnas (i'm guessing 5 man enough?)

85 for the mek + 75 for the burnas
6 wagons (rigger + armor + rolla+shoota (or maybe kannon instead?)) (maybe consider 'hard case?)
Warboss+ nobs x 3 (3 squads)
is just 1030 points. If we're going to 1500, we can potentially cram in 80 boyz

Just keep minus'ing boys for the upgrades you need like each power klaw is 4 boyz

Troop capacity in the 2 wagons still has room for another 40 boyz (or 24 if you take 'hard case) for a fully mech'ed up force.

If you took a PK on all the nobs, you'd still have room for 47 boyz.

**frankofranko**

8 wagons? Jeez that's a lot. I'd put 2 or 3

**skyfi**

Redbeard wrote:
Lots of people mention the RPJ, which I generally find to be overpriced. One inch for 5 points? Blood Angels get six inches for fifteen points. In the old ork dex, RPJ was 3 and Grot Riggers were 2, and together, the five points were worth it.

Now... not so much.

That math also matches the upgrade the BA get.

What I haven't seen people mention here is the boarding plank. In my experience, it's absolutely mandatory, because there are things you don't want to be relying on a daethrolla for.

For example: dreadnoughts. They can brace for impact, and as you're open topped, have a fairly good chance of stopping your ram, if not killing your wagon. But with a boarding plank, you just pull up along side them and your nob (or warboss) hits them with 4 S9 (or 10) attacks. You don't get locked in combat on the chance that it doesn't die, he doesn't get to hit you back, so lower initiative doesn't hurt. It's all around a good move.

Another example: skimmers. The deathrolla only has a 1-in-3 chance of even hitting a skimmer because they can dodge. But with a boarding plank, hey, 4 S9 attacks.

Any wagon carrying a unit with a powerklaw should have a plank. It's the second best upgrade (after the rolla) available.

in 6th ed do walkers still have option to brace for impact or death or glory? maybe i am mistaken but I deffrolla'd a drop bod and the ironclad on the other side of it in a single move 2 days ago, when we checked whether or not it could death or glory we didn't find anything (maybe too much beer?)

**Billagio**

Deff rolla, rpj, 1 BS. Anything more than that is too many points and I fail to see the use of a kannon or anything.

**Ghenghis Jon**

skyfi wrote:
in 6th ed do walkers still have option to brace for impact or death or glory?

PG 84: RAMMING A WALKER: Walkers cannot Death or Glory. They are treated just like Ramming another vehicle.

OP: I now run my Battlewagons with a Deff Rolla, Armour Plates, Grot Riggers, and 4 Big Shoota since they can all fire when I move 12". RPJ only if I have points left over.

**wtwlf123**

Pretty much always:

Deff Rolla - D6 S10 hits? Sign me up.
Paint Job - Extra movement? Of course.
Armor Plates - If I'm paying 100+ points for a transport, it better get my guys there. Moving every turn is a MUST.
Big Shoota - Just one; I need something to get blown off for a Weapons Destroyed result so I don't get Immobilized.

And sometimes:

Grot Riggers - See armor plates. Although, not as important as the Plates in 6th so far. Not as much stuff Immobilizes my 'Wagon now.
Boarding Planks - It's a cheap upgrade that allows me to get off 4 additional S9 attacks against adjacent vehicles.

**Kharrak**

Deffrolla, two Big Shootas (to negate Weapon Destroyed results), Armour Plates, and Grot Riggers.

If the vehicle has been damaged, the Grot Riggers can try to fix the immobilized result, while the Mek can then turn his attention towards fixing weapons or hullpoints.