Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Gorechild wrote:@OP - Why bother asking if you are so intent that anyone who doesn't think the answer is Eldar is wrong?

They are the most similar in appearence, obviously, but that's not what you asked. The Eldar psyche and culture probably (apart from Nid's) the most alien in 40k.

I didn't say that. I was only asking why Tau? If I asked that, I'd be complaining why people voted Orks or Necrons - although those two are still closer to Humans than Tau.

Why even complain? You complain because someone doesn't share the same opinion as you.

Ok so here's a reason why for not Orks or Necrons. Orks - because they are grown from spores and Necrons because they are made of metal, I've already provided a reason for Eldar.

Therefore Tau are the most human Xenos, but not as human as Jokearo

That doesn't make sense. Tau may think like Humans, but they don't look Human. Eldar look like Humans, think like Humans, especially if the Emperor's plans had pushed through. Orks also look more like Humans than Tau - at least they have a nose and five fingers including the thumb. Necrons - same reasons. So Tau are still farthest.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Gorechild wrote:@OP - Why bother asking if you are so intent that anyone who doesn't think the answer is Eldar is wrong?

They are the most similar in appearence, obviously, but that's not what you asked. The Eldar psyche and culture probably (apart from Nid's) the most alien in 40k.

I didn't say that. I was only asking why Tau? If I asked that, I'd be complaining why people voted Orks or Necrons - although those two are still closer to Humans than Tau.

Why even complain? You complain because someone doesn't share the same opinion as you.

Ok so here's a reason why for not Orks or Necrons. Orks - because they are grown from spores and Necrons because they are made of metal, I've already provided a reason for Eldar.

Therefore Tau are the most human Xenos, but not as human as Jokearo

That doesn't make sense. Tau may think like Humans, but they don't look Human. Eldar look like Humans, think like Humans, especially if the Emperor's plans had pushed through. Orks also look more like Humans than Tau - at least they have a nose and five fingers including the thumb. Necrons - same reasons. So Tau are still farthest.

I rest my case.

...pulls pin on fluff grenade...

*breath* Once upon a time, there was the possibility (I believe) for Half-Eldar to exist as in Ultramarine Chief Librarian Illyan Nastase... Thus PROVING that the Eldar are the most similar to humans... *breath*

...ducks back behind keyboard.

*blink**blink* *Waits for fireworks*

I've never seen a fat eldar. And I think orks better represent human psychology than pansy space elves. Its kind of a bad question though since a lot of the races are based on different traits or tribes of humanity.

Eldar are your typical elitist pansies. Orks are your brutish thugs. DE are space buccaneers, necrons are just dead people, tyranids are people infected with alien dna that burst out of their chest, chaos/demons are just your average devil worshiper/ basement dwelling D&D player, ok tau just came about because the whole world went anime~manga crazy and GW wanted to cash in on that band wagon.

Uhlan wrote:...pulls pin on fluff grenade...

*breath* Once upon a time, there was the possibility (I believe) for Half-Eldar to exist as in Ultramarine Chief Librarian Illyan Nastase... Thus PROVING that the Eldar are the most similar to humans... *breath*

...ducks back behind keyboard.

*blink**blink* *Waits for fireworks*

That's been retconned so technically it never happened...

I would say the Necrontyr. Brilliant, arrogant, and spiteful, all of these things led to the War In Heaven and the deception of the Necrontyr, and the scary part is it could all easily happen to us. We don't know exactly what they looked like, but the fact that their new bodies so closely resemble ours has got to speak for something?

purplefood wrote:

Uhlan wrote:...pulls pin on fluff grenade...

*breath* Once upon a time, there was the possibility (I believe) for Half-Eldar to exist as in Ultramarine Chief Librarian Illyan Nastase... Thus PROVING that the Eldar are the most similar to humans... *breath*

...ducks back behind keyboard.

*blink**blink* *Waits for fireworks*

That's been retconned so technically it never happened...

The character was removed, but GW never actually said it never happened or could never happen (unlike the Squats). So, his point is valid.

I'm going to have to go with "none of the above." I think they all have vast differences and unsettling similarities with humankind, but the argument over "which is closest" is way too close to call.

For me the greatest single influence on a being's perspective, attitude and philosophy is their lifespan. Imagine you had the lifespan of a mayfly; you have a single year to make your life mean something. What would you do different? Probably everything.

So I'm voting Tau. Yeah Eldar may look like us, but looks are superficial. They can live for 10,000 years, we cannot even begin to comprehend their perspective and thought processes.

rabidaskal wrote:For me the greatest single influence on a being's perspective, attitude and philosophy is their lifespan. Imagine you had the lifespan of a mayfly; you have a single year to make your life mean something. What would you do different? Probably everything.

So I'm voting Tau. Yeah Eldar may look like us, but looks are superficial. They can live for 10,000 years, we cannot even begin to comprehend their perspective and thought processes.

Humans live longer than Tau though; Tau live for only around 40 years, Humans 80-120 years. If you can access bionics/age-reversing drugs, you can live for centuries. So Tau cannot begin to understand what goes on the depths of the Human mind either.

rabidaskal wrote:So Tau cannot begin to understand what goes on the depths of the Human mind either.

Where did you come across this information to base this statement?

Orks. We understand their motivation completely. It is not our nature, but it is completely definable and understandable.

The other aliens are totally cryptic.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Orks are the humans you see at football matches.

Blasted hooligans.

*said in a peter griffin voice*
heheheheeheheheh, he says football, but means soccor

wilsmire wrote:

rabidaskal wrote:So Tau cannot begin to understand what goes on the depths of the Human mind either.

Where did you come across this information to base this statement?

Based on his logic that since Eldar live longer Humans can't understand them, then since Humans live longer Tau can't understand them either.

Many species have adapted entirely to work better with certain others, say, you had 4 forms of sentient life develop on the same planet, those species would be more likely to be able to cross-species mate and would naturally adapt to each others presences. The culture surrounding those species would also probably be very accepting of Xenos, considering there are 3 other sentient species sharing the same Home World.

Now, say you have a singular sentient species develop on a planet, Humans, they have no adaptations to work with other species and naturally as a defense mechanism would mistrust and abhor Xenos. There culture would be more species inward centered and hostile to outside species.

Alexzandvar wrote:Many species have adapted entirely to work better with certain others, say, you had 4 forms of sentient life develop on the same planet, those species would be more likely to be able to cross-species mate and would naturally adapt to each others presences. The culture surrounding those species would also probably be very accepting of Xenos, considering there are 3 other sentient species sharing the same Home World.

Now, say you have a singular sentient species develop on a planet, Humans, they have no adaptations to work with other species and naturally as a defense mechanism would mistrust and abhor Xenos. There culture would be more species inward centered and hostile to outside species.

Not really. Even before the dawn of civilization, homo sapiens has already committed genocide - the destruction of our real world sister species, homo sapiens neanderthalis.

Tadashi wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:Many species have adapted entirely to work better with certain others, say, you had 4 forms of sentient life develop on the same planet, those species would be more likely to be able to cross-species mate and would naturally adapt to each others presences. The culture surrounding those species would also probably be very accepting of Xenos, considering there are 3 other sentient species sharing the same Home World.

Now, say you have a singular sentient species develop on a planet, Humans, they have no adaptations to work with other species and naturally as a defense mechanism would mistrust and abhor Xenos. There culture would be more species inward centered and hostile to outside species.

Not really. Even before the dawn of civilization, homo sapiens has already committed genocide - the destruction of our real world sister species, homo sapiens neanderthalis.

That has never been fully proved, it's still a hypothesis.

Anyway, I'd also say that the Tau are the most "human". Sure, the Eldar might look more like us, but is looks everything? The Tau think more like us than any other race. The Eldar are completley alien in their way of thinking. Humans simply can't comprehend it.

I think we should have better defined what the poll was asking when it said human. It could refer to appearance or thoughts/ emotions.

Obviously Eldar are more human in appearance, and Tau can be considered more human in thought and emotions, but as others have already said, all these races represent different aspects of humanity, with Eldar being the elite, constrained, almost noble/ arrogant type and orks being the basic type. As each represents an aspect of humanity determining which is most human depends entirely on which is seen more often.

I think we can at least agree that Necrons are the least human?

I would say the Eldar because they have the same sort of mentality to us, most try to think/ act "decently" but still do "wrong" things from time to time.

Marzillius wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:Many species have adapted entirely to work better with certain others, say, you had 4 forms of sentient life develop on the same planet, those species would be more likely to be able to cross-species mate and would naturally adapt to each others presences. The culture surrounding those species would also probably be very accepting of Xenos, considering there are 3 other sentient species sharing the same Home World.

Now, say you have a singular sentient species develop on a planet, Humans, they have no adaptations to work with other species and naturally as a defense mechanism would mistrust and abhor Xenos. There culture would be more species inward centered and hostile to outside species.

Not really. Even before the dawn of civilization, homo sapiens has already committed genocide - the destruction of our real world sister species, homo sapiens neanderthalis.

That has never been fully proved, it's still a hypothesis.

Even if our ancestors didn't do it deliberately, our kind is still indirectly responsible - we simply out-thought/out-developed and out-bred them into extinction.

Anyway, I'd also say that the Tau are the most "human". Sure, the Eldar might look more like us, but is looks everything? The Tau think more like us than any other race. The Eldar are completely alien in their way of thinking. Humans simply can't comprehend it.

Fixed.

Are they really? In 40k, when Tau encounter a new species, the first thing they think of is to invite them into the Empire. When Humans or Eldar encounter a new species, if it's a non-threat it's ignored. If it's a threat, ruthless destruction follows. Tau believe in 'equality' for all races under the Ethereals; Humans and Eldar both have a Human-first and Eldar-first policy in place. So Eldar still look and act closer to Humans than Eldar.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

I think we can at least agree that Necrons are the least human?

Only oldcrons. As other people have pointed out, newcrons are more Human in their thoughts and motivations than their previous incarnation - they're still closer both in thought and appearance to Humans than Tau.

Are they really? In 40k, when Tau encounter a new species, the first thing they think of is to invite them into the Empire. When Humans or Eldar encounter a new species, if it's a non-threat it's ignored. If it's a threat, ruthless destruction follows. Tau believe in 'equality' for all races under the Ethereals; Humans and Eldar both have a Human-first and Eldar-first policy in place. So Eldar still look and act closer to Humans than Eldar.

Sources for that? I have never heard of Eldar ruthlessly obliterating threatening races before, and truth is, they don't. Sure, right now they kill Humans, Orks, Tyranids and whatever might threaten their lives, but at the time of their empire they passively observed other races, because no other race were a threat to them. They didn't kill them off.

Marzillius wrote:

Are they really? In 40k, when Tau encounter a new species, the first thing they think of is to invite them into the Empire. When Humans or Eldar encounter a new species, if it's a non-threat it's ignored. If it's a threat, ruthless destruction follows. Tau believe in 'equality' for all races under the Ethereals; Humans and Eldar both have a Human-first and Eldar-first policy in place. So Eldar still look and act closer to Humans than Eldar.

Sources for that? I have never heard of Eldar ruthlessly obliterating threatening races before, and truth is, they don't. Sure, right now they kill Humans, Orks, Tyranids and whatever might threaten their lives, but at the time of their empire they passively observed other races, because no other race were a threat to them. They didn't kill them off.

That was the old Eldar Empire. They practiced a benevolent policy (at least before the events leading to the Fall) to non-Eldar. The Humans had something similar before the Old Night began. But the Craftworld Eldar are different (and the Dark Eldar even more so). Path of the Warrior mentions '...races wiped out whose only crime was their mere existence...'. Humans and Eldar are even more alike in this light, since in their respective Golden Ages they were benevolent and peaceful, and now, in the twilight of their races, they are focused on their respective survival at the cost of others.

EDIT: the actual quote, from p.325 of Path of the Warrior is: "...warriors sent to slaughter inferior races, whose only crime had been their existence."

Tadashi wrote:

Marzillius wrote:

Are they really? In 40k, when Tau encounter a new species, the first thing they think of is to invite them into the Empire. When Humans or Eldar encounter a new species, if it's a non-threat it's ignored. If it's a threat, ruthless destruction follows. Tau believe in 'equality' for all races under the Ethereals; Humans and Eldar both have a Human-first and Eldar-first policy in place. So Eldar still look and act closer to Humans than Eldar.

Sources for that? I have never heard of Eldar ruthlessly obliterating threatening races before, and truth is, they don't. Sure, right now they kill Humans, Orks, Tyranids and whatever might threaten their lives, but at the time of their empire they passively observed other races, because no other race were a threat to them. They didn't kill them off.

That was the old Eldar Empire. They practiced a benevolent policy (at least before the events leading to the Fall) to non-Eldar. The Humans had something similar before the Old Night began. But the Craftworld Eldar are different (and the Dark Eldar even more so). Path of the Warrior mentions '...races wiped out whose only crime was their mere existence...'. Humans and Eldar are even more alike in this light, since in their respective Golden Ages they were benevolent and peaceful, and now, in the twilight of their races, they are focused on their respective survival at the cost of others.

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense actually.

Tadashi wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Uhlan wrote:...pulls pin on fluff grenade...

*breath* Once upon a time, there was the possibility (I believe) for Half-Eldar to exist as in Ultramarine Chief Librarian Illyan Nastase... Thus PROVING that the Eldar are the most similar to humans... *breath*

...ducks back behind keyboard.

*blink**blink* *Waits for fireworks*

That's been retconned so technically it never happened...

The character was removed, but GW never actually said it never happened or could never happen (unlike the Squats). So, his point is valid.

I was being a bit tongue and cheek here, but as for anything that seems to have been retconned, Due to numerous inconsistencies throughout the history, everything to varying degrees should be considered tinged with rumour and inuendo. A rather ham-handed effort to bring the threads of 40k together, but there it is.

So pen your sacred cows as you might, nothing is sacred.

Tadashi wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Uhlan wrote:...pulls pin on fluff grenade...

*breath* Once upon a time, there was the possibility (I believe) for Half-Eldar to exist as in Ultramarine Chief Librarian Illyan Nastase... Thus PROVING that the Eldar are the most similar to humans... *breath*

...ducks back behind keyboard.

*blink**blink* *Waits for fireworks*

That's been retconned so technically it never happened...

The character was removed, but GW never actually said it never happened or could never happen (unlike the Squats). So, his point is valid.

They may not have explicitly said it can't happen but we have been told Eldar have a triple helix DNA strand which is not compatible with humans...
So it isn't possible...

purplefood wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Uhlan wrote:...pulls pin on fluff grenade...

*breath* Once upon a time, there was the possibility (I believe) for Half-Eldar to exist as in Ultramarine Chief Librarian Illyan Nastase... Thus PROVING that the Eldar are the most similar to humans... *breath*

...ducks back behind keyboard.

*blink**blink* *Waits for fireworks*

That's been retconned so technically it never happened...

The character was removed, but GW never actually said it never happened or could never happen (unlike the Squats). So, his point is valid.

They may not have explicitly said it can't happen but we have been told Eldar have a triple helix DNA strand which is not compatible with humans...
So it isn't possible...

Source, please? AFAIK, the triple-strand is Ork DNA, two animal strands and one fungal.

The T'au are the closest.

The Orks are fungus, the Eldar look like us physically, but are so far different from us in every other way it's not even a contest (Triple Helix DNA, body language instead of speaking, etc.).

The T'au evolved like we did, they act like us, their DNA is similar, and hell, they even look more human than Eldar! (Not faces, but body composition and structure)

Again, considering everything I've said above is tongue and cheek, I doubt seriously that half-eldar will make a reappearance, but one never knows in the 40k universe. Considering the level of interest I've seen across many forums I wouldn't be suprised to eventually see such a thing. Perhaps making an appearance as a one off experiment... yada, yada, yada...

The level of genetic engineering would allow anything to be possible in 40k, triple helix or no. Mating wouldn't work of course, but reconstruction would be possible to make a hybrid... all it takes is an enterprising author to reshape what is possible in the universe... *sigh*

The question of course would be, "why?".

Chowderhead wrote:
The T'au evolved like we did, they act like us, their DNA is similar, and hell, they even look more human than Eldar! (Not faces, but body composition and structure)

This? This is more Human?





Ah, much better.

Once again, I re-iterate. Orks, not Eldar, have the triple-strand. Second, Humans and Eldar have a history of being compatible. That character has been retconned, but, the GW has not gone Squat on the concept. Third, Eldar do act like Humans. Go read the older posts.

Uhlan wrote:
Mating wouldn't work of course, but reconstruction would be possible to make a hybrid... all it takes is an enterprising author to reshape what is possible in the universe... *sigh*

Not necessarily. As I've said before, GW has not gone Squat on the idea/concept.

Lets try an actual GW image not a piece of anime stylized fan art of the Eldar

That is an older image but we have newer stuff that Eldar can look very humanish






We seem to have two school of thought here in the sense as to what it is to be Human biological or in thought.

At the close of the 41st Millennium, yes the Eldar and Imperium share some of the same beliefs in contact with other species. That is mostly based on their circumstances, ideals, and their history. Fast forward the Tau 20,000 years and they may well be the same, but if you rewind the human thought process back 20,000-30,000 years or even more then you will note that the Humans have more in common with the Tau then they did with early Eldar civilization.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I kind of illustrated a point with my two pictures that the information we have on the Eldar changes from edition to edition and from artist to artist.

As for the recent Gav Thorpe books, the Eldar are represent to think in humans way so the reader can connect with them. If we were capable of portraying then with extreme emotional capability that humans can not even comprehend in the book, then it would be a boring book cause "we" being Human can not understand what that is like.

So removing the novels from the equation, Eldar or no more then superficially similar to humans and on a whole different plan when it comes to thought process. Where as the Tau make decisions based on similar patterns as Humans would in the same circumstances.