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40k and WFB are 28mm Heroic. Lotr is 28mm normal I think, or possibly 25mm(New Line Cinema wouldn't allow the models to be interchangeable with existing GW product lines, hence the change in scale).

I applaud the attempt to at least punctuate your sentences. That alone makes reading text walls insanely easier.


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Lord General Cheese wrote:The scale of the models in refrence to actuall people I really cant do that math so right now i plan on having the average man aout three inches tall to allow for more detail and customizaton it would be more like a skirmish then all out war

3" tall would be rather big by gaming standards. 54mm is considered "big" scale for wargames, and is a reasonable size for skirmish based games, although it means that players won't be able to use existing terrain from their 28mm lines.

Is English your first language? If it is then the rest of this is relevant, if not only slightly relevant.

Developing a whole new game system requires a lot of work to get it off the ground, your use of grammar and lack of understanding of what others are asking doesn't strike me as someone who has the background and education to produce a tt miniatures game, to put it very bluntly you strike me more as a middle schooler who while daydreaming during English class conceived the idea to venture into the world of wargaming.

While I like the idea of larger models from the perspective of a painter/modeller, 3" for a standard human is just too big.
If you want my advice (and I'm going to assume you do as you're posting about it on a public forum) choose a scale that is in use already.
This gives you (and your potential player base) access to 3rd party terrain sources, and makes your game potentially a better seller.

Also, and I cannot stress this enough, clean up your grammar, spelling, and punctuation if you want to be taken seriously.

curran12 wrote: A backstory is not going to sell a game on its own

marv335 wrote:You need the game mechanics first...

Seriously, the background and look of the models is the last thing you need to work on.

I'm sorry, but you guys are really putting the cart before the horse.

At the end of the day, the setting is ALL that matters. Everything else can be tweaked, fiddled with and altered. People only really invest in a game because of the setting.

With that said, the Fallout style setting the OP laid out sucks. Sorry to say it so plainly, but it's boring and bland and done a million times before. You really need to come up with a unique and enjoyable setting. It doesn't have to be original, but if you're going to copy something you need to make sure your version is better than the other versions.

Something like Victorian monster hunters (think flintlock weapons, steam-punk mad scientists, witch-hunters, wolf men, mummies, vampires, etc) would be cool.

People may INVEST in a game initially because of it's story, but it is the mechanics and game experience that will keep them buying(or the models if they are wicked awesome).

I didn't start playing WFB because I read the stories behind it. I started because the models looked cool, and I continued buying it because I enjoy the game itself.

Besides, players can write their own stories to games that exist outside the canon. How else do Ogres go up against Lizardmen?

So:
1. Grammar and a proper grasp of the English language.
2. A well thought out schematic of game mechanics and playstyle.
3. A scale that will attract the most players(28mm heroic is a safe bet)
4. Well designed models that are easily identifiable as unique to the game(no SM proxies).
5. A well thought out story and background.

In that order.

I've been making my own pen-and-paper roleplaying game for about 3 years now. It's a hell of a lot of work, and needs not only a marvellous attention span, but enough memory and capacitative knowledge to remember every single detail you put into it! Make one mistake, one tiny little error where you use one description on one page and a different description on another and people will pile on you faster than you can retcon! You really need to be aware of everything you've done, intend to do, and may one day branch into.

I know it's somewhat different between pen-and-paper and tabletop, but fluff (and the artwork that comes from that) needs to be in place to really grab peoples attention. For PnP it needs to be strong enough to grab and keep everybodies interests; with TT, you have both a get-out clause and a potential downer; your models may be able to grab peoples attention in ways the images/fluff will not, but if the background isn't there to support it, well, those little plastic men won't be enough to keep people coming back to your game when they could go play 40k or Warmachine or Infinity with reams of background material to get their interest when they're not playing with the models.

But I'm going to repeat everyone's plea's; grammar, spelling, punctuation, it's the most important thing in the world. Not only for the reasons listed above (professionalism, getting a point across, understandability, etc) but also for the simple reason that is this;

You're asking people to play an imaginary game with little plastic men on their dining room table with dice and paper sheets while they eat cheeto's and drink Dr. Pepper. This is enough of a leap of imagination.

How much harder is that leap going to be when you can't even spell a word right? When every other sentence gets a giggle because it's wrongly-punctuated?

It breaks immersion, and immersion (with suspension of disbelief) is the most important thing to games like this.

At least, that's my opinion...

Aerethan wrote:People may INVEST in a game initially because of it's story, but it is the mechanics and game experience that will keep them buying(or the models if they are wicked awesome).

I didn't start playing WFB because I read the stories behind it. I started because the models looked cool, and I continued buying it because I enjoy the game itself.

My point is rather that WHFB is WHFB, regardless of which edition you are playing. I mean, you didn't just quit when they switched from 7th to 8th edition despite DRASTIC changes in the rules, and quite aside from that the WHFB mechanics are, well, lets just say there's better game mechanics out there. It's not so much just the in-game history that matters, it's the over-all setting. It's the characters involved, the type of world involved, the imagery of the models and the factions, and the whole over-all package.

Case in point, WotR and LotR are brilliant game systems, but you'll almost never get a gamer to play them unless they are a Tolkien fan. Likewise Flames of War. I have only a passing interest in WWII, and will never invest into FoW no matter HOW good the rules are.

Not to say a designer has a free pass to make crappy rules if they have great background (GW, I'm looking at you!) you still need solid rules design. But even with the best rules in the world, no one will play a game with drab or crappy background. Background HAS to come first.

The best background can't help a game with terrible mechanics though.

Will it be IGO/UGO?
Don't think I can handle another rules system like that...

marv335 wrote:The best background can't help a game with terrible mechanics though.

True, but the worlds best mechanics with a terrible setting will do even worse.

Hardly. You've been the person in this thread whose had the whole cart/horse arrangement badly misunderstood.

Players can adapt or ignore a setting to suit their own needs. Just look at everything people have done with themed armies in GW games. The mechanics are the foundation of any system. If they're solid, it doesn't matter how gakky the house you build atop them is, you've got at least that much to fall back on. If your foundation is gakky, then it doesn't matter how awesome the house you build atop it is, the whole thing is going to collapse under its own weight.

An unplayable game with an awesome setting is still an unplayable game. A game that's fun, even if the winding dressing is meh is still going to be fun, and probably going to have players doing their own things to improve it, because changing the window dressing to your liking is much easier than changing the rules.

Portugal Jones wrote: The mechanics are the foundation of any system. If they're solid, it doesn't matter how gakky the house you build atop them is

Incorrect.

No one will play a game in a setting they do not like, no matter how good the rules are.

marv335 wrote:The best background can't help a game with terrible mechanics though.

Ever played WarHammer 40,000? I don't think anyone raves about the game mechanics.

Homemade rulesets are possible, but they don't have a great track record. Rather than writing a new ruleset, I'd recommend just adapting an existing ruleset. Luckily there are quite a few great rulesets that cover warband-size 28mm Post-Apocalyptic skirmish with reasonably fast-play mechanics and streamlined stats.

Wastelands 3: Meltdown
I've played this quite a few times and enjoyed it. It has most of what you want Humans, mutants, scavengers, etc... It also has pretty good vehicle rules.
Free here:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Post_Apoc_Wargames/topic/4759552/1/
If you want less vehicles and more survivable people, the earlier Wastelands 1.2 is a good bet
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Post_Apoc_Wargames/topic/1897596/1/

Another option is Neutron York 3000
A pretty cool tongue-in-cheek post apoc game, though you'd have to make your own stats for some of the wierder creatures you are thinking of.
I have it, but haven't played it yet. However, reading through the rules, I think it has the potential to replace Wastelands as my post-apoc ruleset of choice.
7 bucks here:
http://ny3k.blogspot.com/

Another option that I haven't tried, but looks pretty good is Nuclear renaissance.
The publisher sells the book, but they also have it free for download here:
http://www.ramshacklegames.co.uk/nuclear/downloads.html

I'm not going to comment much on miniatures except to say that there are already a ton of great post-apoc minis out there and unusual scales have an even worse track record than self-writing rules.

One question for the OP.
You are talking about miniatures and rules. Do you have a few grand to sink into this project, a way to get the $, or are you just daydreaming?

ITT: OP doesn't speak English as a first language.

Kaldor wrote:

At the end of the day, the setting is ALL that matters. Everything else can be tweaked, fiddled with and altered. People only really invest in a game because of the setting.

Unless of course you are mainly there to sell minis like Reaper or use extremely generic setting like Mantic

Kaldor wrote:

At the end of the day, the setting is ALL that matters. Everything else can be tweaked, fiddled with and altered. People only really invest in a game because of the setting.

I just don't agree with this. If you're doing a pre-packaged game system like 40k, then setting is essential, but there are lots of great smaller games companies that make miniatures without a setting or rules without a setting, or with only a suggested setting. Gamers who want to use their own setting will find rules and miniatures that please them regardless of the provided setting.

Song of Blades and Heroes. - No setting, but a very successfull game
Reaper- No setting for most figures, but very successful

I agree that setting can be important, but good rules are more important.

Mini wargaming are developing a post apocalyptic wargame already. They have art, continually updated rulesets, and raised $80,000 recently to fund it. Oh and they communicate better.

Kaldor wrote:At the end of the day, the mechanics is the most important factor. Everything else can be tweaked, fiddled with and altered. People only really invest in a game because mechanics and setting make it fun to play.

Fixed that for you. Mechanics are the horse. Setting is the cart. You need them both, but put the cart before the horse and you won't get anywhere.

Do you have any suggestions or questions


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I havve posted a significant amount of game mechanics already did you all just miss the posts or is it not what you are looking for

Lord General Cheese wrote:Do you have any suggestions or questions


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I havve posted a significant amount of game mechanics already did you all just miss the posts or is it not what you are looking for

Many have been posted, try reading them.

As far as I can see, your "Significant amount" of game mechanics boils down to this;

Three stats.
1. Endurance. Allows actions to be taken.
2. Wounds. The amount of damage the model can take.
3. Strength. The amount of damage the model dishes out in melee.

Additionally,
Weapons have their own range/damage stats.
Armour mitigates damage.

It's a reasonable start, I'd want to know what constitutes an action, and how many you get, is it modifiable?
Do you hit automatically with ranged/melee weapons or is there a skill check of some kind?

After trying to read this thread, I feel that the OP must truly not have any concept of miniature games. Vernacular that is commonplace (scale, rules, etc.) are escaping his comprehension completely. I can only conclude that the OP is either very young, not a native English speaker, or lacking in language skills for another reason.

It is great to have an idea and to be enthusiastic about said idea, but you must have, at least, a basic understanding of your target audience and be able to communicate with them effectively. Failing that will not aid you in your endeavors.

At this point, I can honestly say that there are few, if any, people on this forum that are taking you seriously. Your refusial to even attempt to correct your grammar is showing people that you do not care about your audience and that you expect them to acquiesce to your lack of grammar skills/efforts. This is a poor start to your game design attempts and because of this, I doubt you will get much help.

Your best option at this point would be to step back from the forums and consolidate your thoughts regarding this game proposal into a few simple categories...

First, check all of your spelling and grammar. Nothing aggregates people more on a forum than trying to decipher your cryptic grammar errors. I have actually only attempted to read about 1/3 of what you have posted in this thread because of the spelling errors alone. I have read every other post in this thread, however.


Second, what are the basic mechanics of your game? Do not just list a few stats. Actually explain some of how they actually work and give an example of it's use during a game.

Third, learn what people are asking/telling you regarding their questions about your game. Someone asking you what scale the game is wants to know how large the miniatures will be. Is your game 10mm, 15mm, 28mm, 54mm, etc. Saying that you want to use magnets and they are about 3 inches tall doesn't actually give anyone what they are looking for.

You have a long road ahead of you developing a RULESET and full miniature game. You are making this road much more difficult to travel by not having common courtesy and listening to what people are telling/asking you. If you actually straighten up and get things going properly, then I wish you good luck.

I am going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that this game will come to nothing.

I love how often we see the "I am making a game/opening a shop/starting a company" thread.

Intrigued by the contents you open itup, hoping to read of new and innovative ideas. Sadly your met with

How do I do it?

Essentially if you need help now, at this very early stage of development, then this just ain't happening.

I think having read (hardest work ever) through this thread, you really need to get out there and start playing games. All sorts of games, with all sorts of different rule sets and styles.

Essentially you have come up with a game set in a post apocalyptic setting. Well whoopee doo matey, your not exactly the first to come up with this.What are you USP's (unique selling points)

I don't pretend to have perfect grammer or spelling but yours is shocking and makes for extremely difficult reading.

What games have you played in your time in the hobby?

I am currently making my own wargame (even though it may not be post-apoc) and so I know how hard it can be to make a setting or rules (i have only played GW games so its hard but I find ways to make unique rules).

My advise to make a wargame setting/rules is:

-Enjoy yourself because you wont make a decent wargame if your not in a good mood.

-Listen to music and look at pictures that are relating to your genre of wargame, therefore you can see what you like or you may get influenced by somthing that you want to do in your wargame (this is how I came up with my ideas)

-get as many demo games as possible, therefore you can get nice amount of flavor of what you want to do in your rules

-DICE are you gonna use D6, D10, D20, etc or are you going to have a mixture?

Hope this helps you with your wargame .

Well mate apparently you have stumbled upon some troubles.

I have some advice from what i have read.

I like the idea about stats maybe you can do something like depending on the range of the weapon you hit on a certain number. with certain special units that have modifiers

Like everyone hits on 6 inch on a 2+.
A 3+ on 12 inch except when you use like a special marksman unit who has a modifier plus one, or a beast unit that has minus one.
And so on. I do know that i am using D6 but that can also be done with D10 or D20 if you balance it out enough.

I like your idea just it doesn't seem like allot of work has been sunk into it.

(Sorry that my grammer isn't very good.)

happygolucky wrote:I am currently making my own wargame (even though it may not be post-apoc) and so I know how hard it can be to make a setting or rules (i have only played GW games so its hard but I find ways to make unique rules).

Ah ha! Ok, here's some advice (for the OP):

Get some more experience with rulesets.

Don't try to make a set of wargame rules from scratch, and don't try to make rules after only reading a single ruleset. Start looking at other systems and see if you can find some inspiration. I, for one, am a mini-rulebook junkie. I have the books for FoW (v2 and v3), Warmachine, Hordes, 40k (5th), Battletech, Field of Glory, Polemos ACW and Black Powder, have owned Malifaux and Fantasy (8th), and have read Force on Force, Hail Caesar, Wargods of Aegyptus, and others. And that's only a small fraction - I'm sure that there are members here on Dakka whose rules collection completely dwarfs mine. All of these rulesets operate so differently, and it was a bog help back when I tried my hand at rules developing (an Assassin's Creed-esque skirmish game that I should go back and work on this summer).

You have stated that you want to have multi-level buildings in a skirmish game. Would the game be that long to elicit the use of the second floor of a building?

To answer the question about skill checking hits or misses that a unit with strength 5 in meale will hit on 5,s and down. But you have to roll two D6 die for each hit. So the least possble strength to have is two and the most possible twelve. Before each game you will have to fill out character sheets for each model sort of like D and D where you have 12 allocable points to endurance or strength so more strength equals less endurance so on so forth.


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Also the reason for the size of the models yes i know three inches are big models but I did for ths reason i hope to print the models with magnetized hands already to allow you easy swap of weapons before and after game


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Now I want to adress weapons I just had a friend of mine who works for procter and gamble do the math for me on the range weapons system so I could make sure none of the weapons were to over powered. For example a hunting rifle has a range of 36" and a strength of 6. Now let me explain those stats with a max range of 36" at 6" you hit on 2 plus, at 12 inches you hit on 4 plus, so for a weapon with a range of 36" at 6" or below its a 2 plus to hit and for each multiple of 6 inches add 2 plus so 12" plus 4 so 18" 6 plus remember your rolling 2 D6 dice. Now certain wepons can use endurance to fire more then once.


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Well each unit even the weakest will have several wounds so yes second story buildings could be used.

Lord General Cheese wrote: Now I want to adress weapons I just had a friend of mine who works for procter and gamble do the math for me on the range weapons system so I could make sure none of the weapons were to over powered.

I'm not entirely sure what Tampax has to do with weapons?