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SilverMK2 wrote:
The only thing which is annoying is the obscene outside US shipping charges everyone in the US seems to want to charge which limits how much I would be willing to invest, if at all.s

Generally Speaking, Miniatures and Games are heavy objects which equates to higher shipping charges. Secondly, the people using Kickstarter need every penny for what they are trying to get off the ground. Thirdly, Kickstarter takes 10% out of what they make.

This makes it a lot more difficult to offer shipping breaks (which is really just "We'll pay for part of your shipping out of our profit") with Kickstarter projects.

Cyporiean wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:
The only thing which is annoying is the obscene outside US shipping charges everyone in the US seems to want to charge which limits how much I would be willing to invest, if at all.s

Generally Speaking, Miniatures and Games are heavy objects which equates to higher shipping charges. Secondly, the people using Kickstarter need every penny for what they are trying to get off the ground. Thirdly, Kickstarter takes 10% out of what they make.

This makes it a lot more difficult to offer shipping breaks (which is really just "We'll pay for part of your shipping out of our profit") with Kickstarter projects.

I was just talking about in general; the US always seems to have huge international shipping charges, even on small items compared to other overseas companies that I have bought from in various parts of the world (or looked at buying from), and I know that it doesn't cost a great deal to ship even reasonably large/heavy items into the USA from the UK as I have sent a few things out that way before...

It always makes me think twice about even looking at a US based company.

I do wonder how many products will go on to be successful afterwards when they potentially get funded by a large amount of their customer base. Some things, like Ogre seem to b just for a one off print run of the game with no future production. People also seem to b addicted to kick starter. Pledge large sums of money left right and centre to various games.

Here's drunk hulks kickstarter. This Tab is to big to fail!

ninjacupcake83 wrote:I am kind of meh about big companies using kickstarter and indiegogo too. I have just launched a campaign on idiegogo to try and get a business venture off the ground in my local area as well as a online store front too, with this said I sit there watching big money being earned by big companies who are already well established while I am still sat on zero raised.

<SNIP>

I guess I'll just carry out sitting and watching the fat cat get fatter.

You don't think there's a possibility that this has everything to do with THEIR Kickstarter campaigns being well done and attractive to investors, while yours isn't?

Have you promoted your KS campaign anywhere? Or do you just have it sitting out there, hoping someone sees it?

Eric

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Kickstarter or Indiegogo, but only because I'm not sure there's any kind of an enforcable agreement between me and the company. I doubt companies would default on their "customers," but I'm still wary.

ninjacupcake83 wrote:I am kind of meh about big companies using kickstarter and indiegogo too. I have just launched a campaign on idiegogo to try and get a business venture off the ground in my local area as well as a online store front too, with this said I sit there watching big money being earned by big companies who are already well established while I am still sat on zero raised.

Likely because, unlike the companies cited, you're asking for donations, not actually selling something.

If I had helped kickstart Ogre, Zombicide, Brushfire, or any of the other games that have been successful, I would have gotten some decent swag out of it. Essentially they were doing preorders. You're just asking for people to give you money to start your own store. Also, your page is rambling and doesn't clearly set out what you're doing. Are you asking for money to start a B&M store, to expand your web store, or for custom miniatures? If it's a B&M store, have you figured out where it's going to be? I can't even find the city you're in, although I can guess that you're in the UK. Or is this a web store? What's your website? How are you going to compete with established web stores? If this is for custom miniatures, what kinds of sculpting have you done before? What kind of products are you going to make?

Your indiegogo page is a sales pitch to "investors." You're asking people to give you money. So you need to be clear on what you want, why you want it, and how you're going to spend that money.

I understand small projects using KS and also big companies riding the KS wave yet personally I will not spend one cent on these kind of projects... I also don't do pre orders.
Why? Call me materialist but when I pruchase and invest in toys I want them shipped to me asap. No patience to keep track on one pre order or investment I did 4 months ago, besides by that time I may as well have changed my toy projects and moved elsewhere.
So a big NO for all these KS shenigans.

Medium of Death wrote:

insaniak wrote:Whoever is running the project emails you at the end of the promotion to arrange payment. You don't hand over any payment information until that point.

After learning this I'm much less opposed to Kickstarter and might actually support something now.

After a look back at my previous email trails, it would appear that I remembered that incorrectly. So yes. you sign up for the payment, but nothing comes out until the project goal is reached.

biccat wrote:Personally, I'm not a big fan of Kickstarter or Indiegogo, but only because I'm not sure there's any kind of an enforcable agreement between me and the company. I doubt companies would default on their "customers," but I'm still wary.

THIS.

Kickstarter is not in the game of delivering product. If they reach the goal, you get charged, your money is given to the person and Kickstarter is 'out'. If you get a 'reward' that is not enforced or even monitored or able to be disputed via KICKSTARTER. The worst part is you may not know for 6+ months that you have been scammed. And it does happen. many many sites withint he video game community have been scammed by vaporware kickstarters.

Many Kickstarters have no rewards. I do like how some established companies are basically 'selling discounted inventory' in excahnge of 'promise we will get new stuff'. Hell. Really? So you mean, you have a warehouse of products that are not moving, and if I give you like 80% of some of that inventory that is not selling, you will give me the product and promise new stuff in 6-12 months?

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backers#WhoIsRespForMakiSureProjCreaDeliWhatTheyProm

Who is responsible for fulfilling the promises of a project?


It is the responsibility of the project creator to fulfill the promises of their project. Kickstarter reviews projects to ensure they do not violate the Project Guidelines, however Kickstarter does not investigate a creator's ability to complete their project.

Creators are encouraged to share links to any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects. It's up to them to make the case for their project and their ability to complete it. Because projects are usually funded by the friends, fans, and communities around its creator, there are powerful social forces that keep creators accountable.

The web is an excellent resource for learning about someone’s prior experience. If someone has no demonstrable prior history of doing something like their project, or is unwilling to share information, backers should consider that when weighing a pledge. If something sounds too good to be true, it very well may be.

Basically if you think eBay scamming is bad and Paypal is a pain to get a refund, you are ass out on kickstarter. They basically don't have to give you a thing and there is nothing you can do about it. (except hire a lawyer... good luck with that)

The idea that so many of these kickstarters are tied to buying products disturbs me as it is awful risky. I don't see how a company selling me a product already on their website at a slight discount helps them accomplish their goal at all. What good does a kickstarter accomplish if close to 75% of the funds raised have to go to cover inventory of existing product being given out and 10% goes to Kickstarter? Like that 10-15% is going to fund all the new products design? The math doesn't add up for me. Much different when basically someone is using the entire cost of the kickstarter to fund the production of the goals and the result of the kickstarter is to create the product outright.

I have been abused by pre-orders over the past 10 years by poorly run or unethical companies. I really feel like I won't donate to a Kickstarter unless I am fully ready to lose every dime I invest without getting anything in return as that is about all I am 'guaranteed'. I consider it a bonus if something shows up one day in the mail as a result of a pledge but I am hardly holding my breath.

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/05/04

How long can a potential charge to your credit card be out there? That alone sounds kind of scary. Like, actually getting billed for one of these projects 6 months down the line. Hopefully no one gets ripped off.

Cave_Dweller wrote:How long can a potential charge to your credit card be out there? That alone sounds kind of scary. Like, actually getting billed for one of these projects 6 months down the line. Hopefully no one gets ripped off.

You get billed when the project ends, if it was funded, by Amazon.com

The person making the Kickstarter never touches your payment information.