Stormtalon Escorts

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**DeathReaper**

Thrawn2600 wrote:Do you think that means that a unit of scouts in a land speed storm could have two escorts as well...

Are they two units or just one?

That is now many ST's you get.

**Flinty**

Mannahnin wrote:They're two units. So two STs should be able to escort, though it feels a little odd.

ICs attached would not count, however, as the IC rules tell us that they are treated as part of the unit while attached.

Purely playing devils advocate (not trying to be too obtuse

), what is the reference for this? I checked through the IC rules and it states that the IC is part of a "combined unit" implying that it is still made up of 2 different units.

**tdwg83**

jwolf wrote:
tdwg83 wrote:In my opinion it would depend on how the units were purchased. If the Landraider is a Dedicated Transport then one escort. IF Landraider is a Heavy choice, 2 escorts.

How would how they are purchased make any difference to the question? I'd really like to understand your reasoning.

The thing here is there is no precedence for this type of unit that I know of. My suggestion would be to allow the ST to be assigned to a FOC slot choice. So if escorting a squad with dedicated transport, one escort is allowed. If you mount a squad in a vehicle bought seperately then one for the squad choice, and one for the vehicle. Without an FAQ or the new rule set in 3 weeks I don't think we can know for sure.

**Lordhat**

What I don't get is why it's so hard to understand the term "unit". It's clearly defined in the BGB. If the ST says that a unit can be escorted by a ST, and there are two units, then two ST's can be used as escorts.

Flinty wrote:
Purely playing devils advocate (not trying to be too obtuse ), what is the reference for this? I checked through the IC rules and it states that the IC is part of a "combined unit" implying that it is still made up of 2 different units.

I'm not sure how exactly the ST rule reads, but this would depend on the wording. If the ST is assigned to escort units before the game starts, then the IC and the squad are indeed two separate units. If the St is assigned after Joining the IC to the squad and declaring reserves, then they are a single unit consisting of an IC attached to a squad.

**jwolf**

tdwg83 wrote:
jwolf wrote:
tdwg83 wrote:In my opinion it would depend on how the units were purchased. If the Landraider is a Dedicated Transport then one escort. IF Landraider is a Heavy choice, 2 escorts.

How would how they are purchased make any difference to the question? I'd really like to understand your reasoning.

The thing here is there is no precedence for this type of unit that I know of. My suggestion would be to allow the ST to be assigned to a FOC slot choice. So if escorting a squad with dedicated transport, one escort is allowed. If you mount a squad in a vehicle bought seperately then one for the squad choice, and one for the vehicle. Without an FAQ or the new rule set in 3 weeks I don't think we can know for sure.

Thanks for explaining your thinking; I appreciate it. And I agree, we're mostly just wasting breath until 6th and/or a FAQ. I'm sure however I decide it will happen at Wargamescon GW will rule the opposite in the FAQ and I will be again proven to be an insane powermad rules changing douchebag!

**Flinty**

"It can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve" and then goes on to list the exceptions.

I like how they felt the need to specify only on friendly units

GW must be learning something at least!

But back to the point. When attributing your reserves could you put the IC into reserve, assign the ST and then join it to a unit? The IC is still technically a unit, just combined with another unit. I realise the point is probably moot and will likely all be explained better in the new rules, but its an interesting thought experiment.

**Lordhat**

Flinty wrote:"It can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve" and then goes on to list the exceptions.

I like how they felt the need to specify only on friendly units GW must be learning something at least!

But back to the point. When attributing your reserves could you put the IC into reserve, assign the ST and then join it to a unit? The IC is still technically a unit, just combined with another unit. I realise the point is probably moot and will likely all be explained better in the new rules, but its an interesting thought experiment.

No, as the order of operations is to join the IC to the unit, then put the said unit in reserves and declaring how it will enter play (DS, OF normally). By the time it is actually IN reserves, it is one unit, not two. Once an IC has joined a squad it is considered part of that unit until it leaves (and during certain points of the assault phase). Yes the rules say it's a "combined unit", but note that it's "a combined unit" not "two units combined". The phrasing used in the book is entirely singular when it references the unit made by the IC and another squad.

**rigeld2**

jwolf wrote:I will be again proven to be an insane powermad rules changing douchebag!

Quoting out of context is soooo much fun :-)
Wish I could make it out there.

sorry for the derail - I feel that there's valid points on both sides of the argument and it'll be a TO call until (and maybe after) 6th drops.

**Drunkspleen**

Flinty wrote:"It can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve" and then goes on to list the exceptions.

I like how they felt the need to specify only on friendly units GW must be learning something at least!

Yeah, now there's only an issue when you assign it to escort an allied unit in a 4 player game (assuming a team doesn't share a single turn)

given "The Stormtalon must move onto the board within 6[inches] of the point that the unit it is escorting enters by" does it get a free movement in your allied player's turn since it "must move onto the board" or does it get destroyed since it arrived from reserve when unable to move? Of course, this wouldn't be the first time a 40k rule is only adequate so long as you are playing 1v1.

**Flinty**

The 40k rules are only really designed for 1v1 play, so its not too surprising that you need to house rule things for more players. The only real need for such detailed rules is for tournament play anyway.

**Lordhat**

Drunkspleen wrote:
Flinty wrote:"It can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve" and then goes on to list the exceptions.

I like how they felt the need to specify only on friendly units GW must be learning something at least!

Yeah, now there's only an issue when you assign it to escort an allied unit in a 4 player game (assuming a team doesn't share a single turn)

given "The Stormtalon must move onto the board within 6[inches] of the point that the unit it is escorting enters by" does it get a free movement in your allied player's turn since it "must move onto the board" or does it get destroyed since it arrived from reserve when unable to move? Of course, this wouldn't be the first time a 40k rule is only adequate so long as you are playing 1v1.

Seriously, why would you even ask this question in YMDC? It's readily apparent that standard 40K is only intended for 1v1 games; Anything outside the scope of the rulebook must be decided amongst the players at hand, and we cannot help with that.

And complaining about 40k being inadequate with more than two players is like complaining about a toy train's performance without rails; Neither was intended to function that way.